In the past couple of years people coming to Thailand either as visitors or expats were being exposed to an increasing amount of government prying and information gathering. While the Royal Thai Immigration claimed that these steps were taken to reduce crime, it was often seen as a method of collecting money when fines would be levied for even the smallest mis-step in the rather convoluted process.
After several years of declines in tourism and also a rather large exodus of long-term residents or people deciding to retire elsewhere such as Cambodia, Vietnam, or the Philippines, the government has finally addressed the issues and dare I say, apologized for a bit of it.
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In my travels around the world I have noticed a decrease in the amount of countries that even bother with "Arrival / Departure" cards. I know there are a few but Thailand's was definitely one of the most prying that took some time to fill out and asked certain questions like "religion" "income" "profession" "marital status" "place of birth" (huh?) , and also the exact address where you were going to be staying.
Let's say you booked at the Sheraton on Sukhumvit, or you only know that you booked on such and such hostel on Khao Sahn road; or even worse, that you planned to do what all backpackers used to do and simply turn up and figure out a place to stay once you got to a particular city or area. None of this was allowed anymore - they needed to know precisely where you were staying and if you didn't know the answer to that question, you were not allowed to enter until you either booked something or made up a plausible lie.
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Several years ago, this card was eliminated for all Thai citizens but kept on for everyone else. Oh, if you managed to lose your departure card while touring around Thailand you were in for a patronizing talking to as well as potentially a fine when you try to leave.
It was funny to me that when it was announced just a few days ago that this system was going to be phased out that the reasoning was something along the lines of "We have to maintain huge warehouses to store these forms and no one really knows where any of the individual cards are when we need to retrieve them - which is very rare" - I'm paraphrasing a translation but basically they were announcing something that I always suspected - this paper isn't actually used for anything after you submit it.
My group of pals somehow ended up being friends with one of the Immigration guys in Krabi and he told us over copious amounts of whisky, that mostly they just throw them in the trash.
The dreaded TM-30
If you dont' stay here a long time this is relatively irrelevant because while it does apply to all visitors, the hotels you stay at submit this form without you even knowing about it. Basically, it was a system so that all non Thais can be tracked at all times during their stay.
I used to own a small hotel and this was an arduous process for my staff and took a very long time to complete. It hardly seemed worth it seeing as how my rooms were as cheap as $5 a night.
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Anyway, the real hullabaloo about this was that international businesses were complaining that they don't have time for this because the expats who live here and have a professional job (of which there are hundreds of thousands) were now required to submit a form before they ever leave their city of residence if they were going to be away from their own home for more than 24 hours. It doesn't matter the reason: Business trip, family vacation, popping over to a friend's house in the next city, random hookup with a ladyboy, passing out in a ditch on the other side of town.....the government needed to know where you were staying at all times.
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mam... we need to see your TM-30
One completely disillusioned government official suggested that they could develop cheap "tracking bracelets" for all non Thais.
A lot of people, like me, refused to participate in this Orwellian system and while it was unlikely to be enforced, there were hefty fines if they decided to bust you.
The crazy thing about this is the fact that people who do manage to come into Thailand with bad intentions such as drug trafficking or terrorism (which is what this is meant to track, primarily) aren't going to participate in it anyway, so what was the point?
tl; dr
Thailand receives around 20 million tourists per year. This is a lot of pieces of paper that no one is ever going to look at in all likelihood. The tourism minister and one of the higher ups in Immigration did something extremely rare in Thailand: They admitted that they were wrong about these seemingly excessive and rather useless paperwork.The great news is that they are meant to be creating an app that can be downloaded for free and that someone can perform their arrival information with just 4 clicks. Some people might suggest that this technology could be a way of introducing the "tracking bracelet" and the government doesn't even have to pay for it! I suppose there is some logic to that but ultimately you are in charge of the privacy of your own phone.
In my opinion this is a step in the right direction because those of us that live here and don't cause any problems for anyone else (which is nearly all of us.) Hitting us with more and more reports and papers that must be submitted is a very frustrating experience.
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For those of you visiting during SteemFest, you likely will still have to fill out one of these forms as the app they are developing will take some time (2-3 months was suggested a week ago, so that means it will be 6 months.) However, it will be a momentous occasion for you, because it may be some of the last forms of that sort that are ever used.
Interesting.., is there some kind of fee to enter the country too? This is common in other ones so it wont surprise me.
The ankle bracelet idea would have killed tourism. We use those here for house arrest criminals.
If you are only staying 30 days or less you can get a visa on arrival for free to many nationalities. All G8 countries. Some African countries have to apply. Basically for most countries there is no fee under 30 days.
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Planning vacation. Thanks for information.
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thanks for the information - Thailand is a great place, and sometimes they take the wrong steps in the field of tourism migration And so on / try to live in Thailand in the winter - it is still relatively cheap compared to many countries.
you are exactly right. I would say at least 50% of my expat friends over here are only here for the western winter, then they bugger off from around April to November.
yes, my favorite Russian direction from November to March - given our harsh winters - Tai is a small, not expensive paradise / bro. I have a question for you - I find it difficult to write and express my thoughts through an interpreter, but I want to make high-quality posts - what should I do? learn English or write in Russian. And does it make sense - I don’t want to leave for the Voice @gooddream
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since most of the people on here are English speakers i think learning English would be best but i know that is very difficult to do. I'm not sure how many Russian posts there are on here. Maybe give it a try.
ok, I'll try ✔️✌️
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Any statistics on whether it really did reduce crime or not? That is pretty awesome that things are going to be a little more lax. Especially with Steemfest coming. I've never really understood people that go to foreign countries and get crazy. I mean, I know alcohol and drugs can make you do things you wouldn't think you'd ever do... But it is pretty universal knowledge how horrible prisons are outside of the US so, why risk it!
oh for sure. Every story you have seen about how horrible Thai prisons are... it's actually much worse. I have only ever been to the prison once and that was to bail out my friend who got arrested for playing at an open mic night without a work permit... it was dumb.
The government would claim that it had an impact but the problem is that foreigners aren't the ones committing a majority of crimes. They get blown up in the media when a foreigner does do it (just like any country would do) but for the most part the expat population here is pretty tame.
Wow, that sounds like a heck of a story! :) I understand what you are saying about it mostly being locals and things being blown up when it is not one.
yeah, unfortunately a feeling of ethnocentrism is pretty strong over here but i wouldn't say that it is really any different than anywhere else.
Very nice post! I was having high hope! But then it would take a few months at least!
Love it! I always wonder what they did with all the papers!! They threw them all away!! Hahaha. The recycle-guys would love to sell these nice quality paper sheets!
I hope these crazy civil servants will come to their common sense one day, before it’s too late and the country loses all the competitive edge!
Crazy weather today!
There is so much paper used when dealing with Thai immigration in a digital age... they seriously need to transition not just this but many other aspects of how this country is run.
weather is cool and clear here today, but i suppose it is a big country.
Yap! Just phoned my friend on Mae Rim. The weather there is nice and dry, very suitable for afternoon reading!
Thanks ever so much for your kind support.
Are you going to Steem Fest?! Just being nosy!
Cheers.
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Dear @gooddream
I've been one of those "long-term residents" and I got fed up with the way immigration has been treating people like me in past few years.
I'm over 40, I own my own business and all I wanted it to peacefully spent remaining of my life living lose to the sunny beaches in Thailand. Enjoy amazing food, lovely weather and working out on daily basis.
I've been spending my hard earned money. However I started encountering more and more troubles with visas. There is simply no way to stay in Thailand legally any more for people like me. With solid and stable abroad income.
I was even told that managing my own business is illegal, since it means that I would be working on my laptop while being on tourist visa. It doesnt surprise me that tourism is dying and I really hope most of those immigration officers will end up jobless sooner or later. Time for them to swallow their own arrogance.
That has always been silly. While travelling everyone is changing locations. However we needed to provide them with address of very first one.
Wow. I can hardly imagine impact of this idea on already dying tourism.
Another HUGE put off from idea of coming to Thailand :/ What about those who are using nokia phones? Or those whos batteries would die? Or those who would not like to install untrusted app? Bloody hell. And it is not true that we're in charge of privacy on our phones. It's nothing more than illusion.
Yours, Piotr
@fitinfun, @majes.tytyty you may find it interesting
There are an ever-increasing number of people who I have known here that are gradually getting fed up with all the nonsense and are moving to another country. It seems as though every week i am hearing about a few more people.
I am like you and I work online at home (wherever that home happens to be) and the constant harassment is something that gets more and more complicated to dodge as the years go by.
I know people on all manor or visas and every time all of us go to renew it we are treated like criminals despite the fact that we have done nothing wrong. They try to make a problem with your paperwork.
Living here hasn't gotten any easier - that paperwork is still a mountain of uselessness, but at least they have eliminated some of the bullcrap associated with simply coming to visit.
Where did you end up moving to?
Hi @gooddream
I'm sorry for such a late reply. I've been quite overwhelmed with work in past few days, but I'm already catching up with Steemit :)
Thank you for your kind reply. I appreciate it.
Initially I moved to Malaysia, however it's only worse (immigrationwise) over there so I ended up heading back to europe. My first winter ahead of me. After 11 years in South-East asia. Wish me luck! :)
ps.
Together with bunch of other guys from Steemit, we've been working lately on "project hope". It is a small non-profit project on STEEM blockchain.
We've recently started delegation program, which would allow our supporters to enjoy weekly PASSIVE INCOME (in form of liquid steem).
Perhaps you would find it interesting: https://www.projecthope.pl/passive_income
Regardless if you would be able to support our efforts or you not, I would absolutely appreciate any feedback possible.
Cheers, Piotr :)
I work for a legal firm that handles a lot of Interpol cases, and we have dealt with several detentions in Thailand as a result of Red or Blue Notices, but then we have had clients who we KNOW are listed on Interpol pass immigration without an issue...can you shed any light on that inconsistency?
Likely bc immigration is easily bought here and they don't communicate from location to location.. I dunno... I'm surprised to hear that they didn't comply with Interpol. It could also be because their technology doesn't work and they just push forward to keep the line moving or maybe the person who received the Red or Blue notices (don't know what that is) doesn't know how to interpret it. It could be a lot of things.