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RE: The Problem With Anarchism - An Open-Minded Challenge

in #anarchism8 years ago

Anarchism, as most advocates will point out, doesn't mean 'no laws', it means 'no rulers'.

Most of your questions above are answered very simply, by the fact the the true law always exists, and an anarchist society, like any, would only thrive if the real natural law was observed.

The (basic) common-law, as it's known, would still be the framework of law under anarchism. This is law that was natural to the people - and was written and enacted by them, not by government or by lawyers (until later on).

An anarchist society would still have to have the laws of contract, trust, tort and so on - because these are the laws of morality, and morality is what makes humanity human.

An anarchist society would still have juries to make collective decisions (e.g. infrastructure) because that's the only way to make lawful decisions. It' s all just natural law, and it's very logical and well established.

The only thing such a society would lack is people who claim the right to break the law, under the guise of 'government'.

Anarchism isn't a fringe-belief, it's basic morality and adulthood... It could be better understood though...

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Sure, I agree with most of the points of anarchism; I don't want rulers, but how do you get rid of them in the real world? Someone will always rise up in power to coerce others to fit their own vision of the world. Yeah theoretically I want a society with no rulers and have the code = law, but even in such scenarios, due to network effects, there will always be inequality of power distribution, allowing a few people at the top to effectively become the rulers of everyone else. We see it here on Steemit. Explain to me the difference between "whales" and "rulers".

Haha. Indeed...
The only way I can imagine it really working is in a world full of much better educated people.
With decent training, 99% of people would flourish. But today's crop of whiney, infantile, irrational morons... Well, shit.
It's theoretically possible, and all the mechanism's there with common-law, but most people are too well domesticated by their masters... They will overplay their hand though, evil always does.

"The only thing such a society would lack is people who claim the right to break the law, under the guise of 'government'."
This is where I find the biggest logical problem. You can't say that definitively. There will always be people who break the law. How is it then enforced? Who carries out the sentence of the juries?

Another aspect, in regards to infrastructure, is funding. Where do the funds come from? The majority of people will not likely pay for infrastructure improvements that don't affect them. Impoverished communities that need these improvements will lack the ability to do it themselves. Philanthropy can only go so far, and there is indeed a limit to charitable funds available.

I think, largely, that the fallacy is the same as that of socialism. It relies on people unselfishly seeking the best for society. The problem is that people are not that inherently unselfish, and many people are downright evil. From what I've seen, anarchism does not have a good control for those elements. Thoughts?

By the way, thank you for contribution constructively!

Hi Jared,
There will always be people who break the law, agreed, but under anarchy, no one can claim it's their right to do so. That's the difference. Claiming the right to break the law is the essence of government, and that's what is morally repugnant.

Before we had permanent governments, professional lawyers, and professional politicians, we the people upheld the law. We were the police, the jury and the judge. We organised ourselves into communities with trusted elders, and all the facilities a government could offer. The difference was - there was no coercion.

Funding: the only lawful way to fund any community project is by donation. There's no other way. Coercion is a criminal act. If something can't be funded, then it doesn't happen. People cannot be forced into debt against their will - that's immoral.

I hear what you're saying about philanthropy only going so far - but that is immaterial - the law dictates that coercion is crime. And it's a crime because it only leads to inequality and harm.

People are actually primarily cooperative, not competitive. The truly evil are the latter of course, but they're in the minority. Most babies are born with loving generous spirits, it's only their parents who turn them into lost souls.

People have actually lived without money for the vast majority of history (it's a recent invention) living in cooperative egalitarian communities, where merit confers respect. In many societies the culture was to 'out gift' your neighbors - because generosity was tied to social standing. It was their culture to give. To offer something in return for a gift would be an insult.
This society / cult is an aberration. It's not natural at all...

I don't think any sane anarchist would reject the leadership of a wise elder, unless they were wrong. We don't reject all leadership, only that which is forced on us. I personally would love to have someone to follow, it'd be so much easier, but the world's full of people who can't even lead themselves, so we have to just do it ourselves...

To be fair, having to do it ourselves is how we grow up... And that's why all members of the community should be involved in local justice, and learning the law, so they can learn to be moral and just people.
:)

There will always be people who break the law, agreed, but under anarchy, no one can claim it's their right to do so. That's the difference. Claiming the right to break the law is the essence of government, and that's what is morally repugnant.

I understand what you're saying here, but I think it's irrelevant whether a person claims the right to break the law. The important factor is whether they break it or not, the consequences that follow and the mechanisms for preventing deviant behavior; which I don't feel that anarchy addresses sufficiently.

People are actually primarily cooperative, not competitive. The truly evil are the latter of course, but they're in the minority. Most babies are born with loving generous spirits, it's only their parents who turn them into lost souls.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. I just don't think people are born with loving generous spirits. Have you ever held a hungry baby? There is nothing loving or generous about it. That being said, I think that is where I philosophically disagree with anarchists. I don't trust that the people in my community are that generous and unselfish. I also don't think that a competitive spirit implies evil.

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