One of the claims seems to be that atheism inevitably leads to nihilism. I don't really see the connection here. I'm sure there are plenty of atheist nihilists (hell I think I'm probably borderline nihilist lol, at least on things of no consequence to others in society). But it's not a logical conclusion. Plenty of writing points to the contrary (e.g. @anjkara). And it's pretty clear that the conclusions drawn by @abolitionist don't match you. Although maybe you have to prove you won't eventually end up that way lolllll. Nothing to prove really. That straw man is quite an easy target. Glad you aren't like that.
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Thanks Eon. Ah, proving a future version of me hahaha. That's gonna be tricky. I don't see the connection either. That's why I'm wondering why he keeps on about it lol.
cheers
I'd be very interested in hearing how atheism doesn't logically and inescapably result in nihilism. Please show me.
Maybe I missed the place where you showed the connection. I feel all I need to do is point at examples of atheist that aren't nihilists.... And I believe @anjkara when she said she isn't. And just look at all the other happy publishing atheists out there. Eh. I mean it's not solid proof I'll admit but I think the burden on proof of really on you to show this. Logically... I don't really see how it follows.
"Atheism results inescapably in nihilism" is not at all the same statement as "all atheists are nihilists" or even "more than zero atheists are nihilists".
If you disagree with the former statement, please let me know how meaning and value exist in an atheistic universe. I don't think that simply imagining that something (like value, or like meaning) comes into existence simply by the power of your imagination.
Is it not the same statement as "atheists will eventually turn nihilist?" If that's not what you are trying to claim then I don't really see the point of continuing. If it is, then my point still stands. Although you know, I'm not going to be able to chase every single public atheist to their death bed to see if they became nihilist.
As for your other point, do we not derive our own meaning and value with respect to the society in which we live? You can totally derive such things even from a selfish or survivalist point of view. I mean to open that up as a possibility. It's certainly easier to turn to God though I'm not sure I want the Christian God (I may have already mentioned that before)
No, it is not the same. Atheists actually live in God's universe and so know deep down that stuff actually does matter. Thus they have an overriding interest, though most will acknowledge neither its existence nor its source, not to profess nihilism or consistently adhere to it. People are not ideologies. People are often inconsistent, and atheists necessarily so, since they live in God's universe and yet profess their Creator doesn't exist.
I look forward to your describing the process by which things pop into existence just because we believe in them.
I know you don't. Nobody does, actually, outside of repentance. We are fundamentally evil beings, in rebellion against God. Only by His grace does anyone turn to Him.
Oh interesting. You're starting from the base that we live in God's universe so that atheists in that world are just in denial.
Or you know, values are ever changing out of necessity, because otherwise a group of people cannot live in harmony. You'd think that it isn't a coincidence that societies across the world came up with oddly similar values. Right... Because they are all gods creatures and this played out like a bad game of telephone.
The real question is whether it's possible for these values to have developed naturally or not. To you, they must have been inspired by God. To me, it's a natural, ever changing process. And you can see elements of group behavior in other animals that have similar characteristics, and you might wonder how that came to be as well. God? Or simply small adjustments over time that are done to improve survival?
Yes. That is because we are trying to reason and think rationally, and the only possible foundation of reason and intelligibility is that Jesus is Lord.
So what you're saying is that:
--child rape was once good
--preferring lies to truth was once good
--adhering to theism was once good
--throwing atheists in big pits covered with deadly snakes was once good
Correct?
And how did you come to this conclusion about values ever changing? How do you know?
But it isn't a moral duty to live in harmony with others, correct?
I'd say a more real question is whether other people even exist and whether your senses are reliable.