Dear Steemit, @ned, etc all
You have incorrectly recovered the account of @kibria365. This account rightfully belongs to me. I shall submit the evidence:
https://steemit.com/bank/@neoxian/the-venetian-bank-of-neoxian-daily-contacts-2018-10-23
We have a signed contract where I loaned him 45 steem and he voluntarily gave me his account password as collateral. He signed this contract and the deal was done. Later he replaced his signature with the word "scam", but if you examine the blockchain you will see he agreed to it originally.
If @kibria365 succeeds in his attempt to scam me, then this is going to destroy my business model and I'm probably going to have to stop making loans (or at least increase the requirements to the point where most won't be able to get them anymore.)
I would humbly ask that you honor my request to recover the account @kibria365 back to me.
Thank you,
The Bank of Neoxian
PS. Yes I know this was bound to happen sooner or later. We'll see how it goes.
Can you link the transaction where he agreed with steemd.com? It would make it more straightforward for people to see.
Edit: Here it is:
https://steemd.com/tx/70190105abed46a31b2b69f1aafa2a7f70daaa4e
Honestly I think account passwords are a poor form of collateral. You are effectively forcing Steemit Inc and other account creators to be the arbitrator in your process, without any payment for that service. Accounts are not designed to be easily transferable, account recovery is not meant to be a general purpose arbitration service.
It is obvious 45 steems was sent to him and he replied ten days ago
Then he edited his comment here with scam..
Thanks for providing that. Well sure I agree but there not a lot of options really. It's either Steem Monster cards or account password for collateral.
Passwords are ok for collateral, but pulling the account creators into it is awkward. You could require them to change the recovery account to you and wait 30 days before making a loan.
Sure but many people can't wait 30 days for their loan.
I'm not "pulling" the account creators in. The scammer did.
That's what I was thinking too, changing the recovery account. But then he's on the hook for recovering their accounts should they get hacked.
private keys prove ownership regardless
You are right at this point. While the loan service he provided adding much value to its followers who are in need. The Steem ecosystem is unfortunately not designed to ease process like this.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I saw his acceptance comment and here is the blockchain proof using https://scribe.steemian.info.
From Steemit FAQ. Note without your consent. It is now incumbent upon steemit to return rightful ownership to neoxian. Steemit failed to determine (which would have taken all of two minutes to look at the wallet at the most), to see if he had consented to giving away of his password.Had they looked and then looked at his reteem there is no doubt about the fact the password was given over voluntarily.
Source:https://steemit.com/faq.html#How_can_I_keep_my_Steem_account_secure
That's a great point about the consent aspect.
I agree, that is a quite significant find, according to those terms it seems like steemit should return the account to you.
Have you tried using the account recovery process to recover it? :-)
Yes I tried that. They honored the scammers account recovery request, but couldn't be bothered to do the five minutes research to honor my legitimate account recovery request.
I dropped back in to see if you had an update. That really sucks that Steemit would do that. Did they even look into it, or did they just honor the request without even investigating? Did they say on what grounds they were rejecting your request?
Given the speed in which they replied, I'm sure they didn't look into it. Too much trouble for them. They replied with a generic and thoughtless corporate email (you can read it in my next post).
This is why I don't trust companies (and most people for that matter).
Let me know neoxian.
Wow... That's insane!
The amount itself is not the end of the world, but the outcome of this could literally destroy your entire business model, which would ultimately affect each customer you have. Prior and future.
I am one of your previous customers and I have never experienced any problems at all. In fact, your business model have helped me out tremendously each time I've done business with you.
Also, how is this supposed to be a scam? It's literally impossible. You make a transfer, after people have agreed to the terms and signed a contract. Are you scamming people by sending them money? If that's the case, please scam me 11 times per day!
A really stupid statement. I hope they'll solve this smoothly.
It's bigger group of Bangladesh users:
@kibriakk and @kibria365 both used same binance memo: 102487765
And there is lot of transfers between many Bangladesh accounts like @avantika, @ujashim... Some of them (@ujashim) are also used for plagiarism (and boosting posts with bots). I'm sure there is far more accounts.
Comment reward farming: @steemjet.sks
I will try to find more accounts.
I will report them to @steemcleaners & @spaminator.
While this recovery issue is out of our scope, we will investigate the plagiarism/faucet abuse described here.
Edit/update: After taking a close look, it's clear that this user has two accounts. The remainder of accounts are friends but are not the same person.
Thanks for looking into it.
@avantika is also his account or controlled by his girlfriend. He also created @onlinetutorial using our account creation service. @kibria365, @avantika, and @onlinetutorial all 3 got banned by utopian-io for using multiple account submiiting contributions.
Thanks, that's useful information.
I am sorry to hear this Neo. I for one think that Steemit Inc is the one to blame here for erroneously intervening in the account recovery process.
They are only allowed to activate the recovery process if the account is "compromised" to which it is not, since he gave you the key himself in his own volition in exchange for 45 Steem to which can be checked in the blockchain as you've said.
They obviously didn't check much the account's transaction and transfers as they would have seen your 45 liquid Steem transfer which was immediately transferred to another account seconds after. That itself is already suspicious and should have been a red flag for Steemit Inc to make more background checks before starting the recovery process.
You should probably add next time in your loan contracts, in addition to the "I agree with this contract", a memo transfer to you stating they agree with the contract with the url of the said loan contract. Since that cannot be edited out and is easily viewable in public (I don't think Steemit Inc will check every accounts comment/edit history)
Oh my! That's a really sad one. As a beneficiary of multiple loans from Neoxian, I am first appalled that anyone would act so badly and unethically. And I am gutted that STINC hadn't thought it necessary to carry out another layer of investigation before recovering the account. I hope with this post, and maybe a formal application/notification to them, they can review the process going forward. Meanwhile, count on the rest of us to keep doing the right thing. My solidarity, friend. Regards.
One of the Evidence that he obtained a loan. He even resteemed it.. What a petty thief
After going through all the options, the best deterrent to not have this happen again is to blacklist accounts with severe penalties.
Fuckin' wasteman scammer... :/
That guy has pre planned it. Step should be taken against him. Steemit is all about trust, honour and friendship. If anyone try ti play with it, bad luck for him.
Posted using Partiko Android
This will really affect the goodwill of the Bank in bad way.
The Bank is really supporting users of Steem Blockchain and @kibria365 is taking an insane step.
All the proofs will be out he cant deny it this way.
I truly believe what @neoxian said, he is an honorable and generous person on steemit. The boy should be punished and the authority of steemit should be more careful about their works.
ohw no...what's going on with this account?
Damn man scamming for just 45 steem? what a kind of person that man..
That kind of person has no place in steemit..
It looks as if that person has not grasped the immutability of the blockchain.
I was wondering if it would make more send for you to have them send you a wallet transaction to confirm their acceptance of the contract, since that would require the active key. However, if he gave you the Master key, that's an even higher level key, so I don't know how else you could prove that they agreed. It seems the agreement should be proof enough.
wao, it so sad, because you're one of the people who helped to raise the platform. In addition this affects us all because if you increase the requirements normal people like me may not have the ability to ask for a loan. @kibria365,You should be ashamed!!
I hope for justice dear friend
Posted using Partiko Android
It's really bad news for steemitians.
I'm so sad to hear this news.
I am sure you will get your help from steemit inc and get your collateral back because you are one of the well-known and had the best reputation here at steemit @neoxian
I'm going to state the obvious, I know, @neoxian, but this has just opened up a big can of worms has been opened. And how it gets resolved will not only affect your business, but any other to come that wish to use similar principles as binding contracts.
My question is, why, if you've been operating for a while now, and it's rather easy to see what your set up is, didn't someone go and check for a signature before just handing back the account?
It seems like a very arbitrary thing to do without some kind of communication between you, Steemit Inc, and potentially kibria365.
I hope it all gets resolved soon and for the best, because otherwise, there will be more happening, not just for you, but anyone else hoping to do business on the STEEM blockchain.
It doesn't make sense for an account recoverer to try and find agreements to exchange the account with someone else. The purpose of account recovery is to handle stolen passwords; it's assumed that users keep their passwords private and do not voluntarily trade them away. Turning account recovery into an arbitration process to allow accounts to be used as a tradeable commodity would give Steemit Inc (as well as people like me who create accounts for people for free) an extra workload and expose them to potential liability. It's using accounts and account passwords as collateral which should be considered 'user error', it is not how they are intended to be used and neither Steemit Inc nor other account creators ever agreed to be part of an arbitration process in a financial service.
There's no doubt that what you say is true, @demotruk. And I'm not necessarily taking sides here, other than to state that this will have an impact not only on this particular instance, but many, many others going forward as other businesses set up on the blockchain.
I agree—when the account password system was set up, it was not done with the idea one day someone would base part of their business on being able to use client accounts as collateral in the case something went awry within the agreed upon contract. That seems crystal clear, otherwise, there would be some kind of arbitration in place. Since it isn't, neoxian has been operating under the assumption that people will willingly enter into his contracts (they don't have to) and be willing (and presumably able) to repay said contracts.
Yet, here we are.
And we're only here now instead of sooner because a) people have reliably paid back the contract they agreed to, or b) no one has called @neoxian out on it to the point where the account was actually recovered.
So, now what? Steemit Inc., might not want to be arbitrators, and they might not want the liability, but someone already, at least temporarily, has taken a stance, knowingly or not. In other words, by recovering the account, they have effectively said that the loan contract between neoxian and kibria365 is null and void. If they weren't wanting to get involved, they would have left the defaulting of the account alone. Which, without checking for extenuating circumstances, opens up a whole new can of worms.
Obviously, there is a protocol, a series of checks, to determine who you are before restoring an account, and it also seems obvious, that failing to meet your agreed upon obligations (if indeed he signed, which can be checked by looking for it), and there isn't somehow validity to his calling this contract a sham, is not a circumstance for account recovery override. My thought is, there will now need to be a conscious decision made either way on this, and that will have some impact on how users conduct business going forward.
I would argue that if you create accounts with a recovery feature then you are opening yourself up to this responsibility, whether you like it or not.
Is this true of Reddit (Facebook, Twitter etc.) as well? For example if you use the reset password feature on Reddit, should it be incumbent upon them to make sure there was no agreement to exchange the account?
There is no intent for accounts to be transferable. The exchange of accounts is beyond the scope of account recovery and nobody has agreed to support it.
I also didn't ask Steem Inc to butt in my private deal with @kibria365.
I don't give a rat's ass about Reddit and Facebook. This is the blockchain, it's a completely different animal. Apples and oranges.
What I would expect (I am not a lawyer) matters is if accounts are considered transferable property or not. While technically possible to be transferred (it's impossible to prevent people from sharing keys or passwords), there is no intent for accounts to be transferred from person to person. This is true for both Steem and traditional account systems.
If accounts are transferable property, then password resets are potentially seizure of property, and we basically can't have account recovery. We can't support both account recovery and accounts being transferable. One of them has to go.
Steem Inc probably didn't think to check it, I'm sure they are barely aware of what I do.
i mean that goes without saying ;) mean, they think on a corp. website to advertise partying then going to concentration camps so people profit off selfies is no issue either
js, keep raisin' Cain, even that doesn't usually work either
what does work is when people have to worry about their fucking stake and as a stake holder , god awful PR and not taking your biz serious seems rather bad biz
This kibira is a very dishonest man...how can you loan money and then change your tune...he or she must be brought to justice. #Recover kibira account to the bank..
That guy has pre planned it. Step should be taken against him. Steemit is all about trust, honour and friendship. If anyone tries to play with it, bad luck for him.
Posted using Partiko Android
They have been mistaken
Posted using Partiko Android
#quarantine
What do you mean?
Posted using Partiko Android
Who is controll
Posted using Partiko Android
bro i have some qustion how can i contect with you?
!popcorn
resteemed!
Thank you for your continued support of SteemSilverGold
really cruel..
With all due respect;
do you have an agreement with Steemit Inc that they would honor such contracts?
If not, as I see it, then the contract is between you and kibria365 and does not really concern Steemit Inc.
(I've personally lost something like 80 btc on crypto loans, fwiw).
you have lost 80 fucking bitcoins?!?!?!?!? You are the worst fucking lender ever!!! lol.
No scratch that. I would like to take out a loan for 40 bitcoin please.
It does concern them, because it is their job to recover stolen accounts.
thank you for upvoting my painting!
wow that's crystal clear scamming am sure it will get resolved soon ,
Spoiler, it didn't get resolved.
isn't that their responsibility to you as a stake holder to help resolve this? are you joking
and spoiler, not totally surprised :(
Hi @neoxian!
Your UA account score is currently 7.297 which ranks you at #65 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has improved 1 places in the last three days (old rank 66).Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 275 contributions, your post is ranked at #1. Congratulations!
Evaluation of your UA score:
Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server
Sorry to hear about the scammers try to scam you....
wish everything will be solve soon!