What you have is a market reaction.
The bidbots have allowed bullshit posts to be overly promoted.
I am not against the bidbots, but many are and frankly many of the bot owners have earned the bad reputation the bots currently have.
Create some standards or help deal with bad actors and the community will stop hating all the bots and focusing on your customers.
The community is tired of dealing with the lack of willingness to do curation and allow nearly all posts to be promoted.
It's a beautiful market response.
As I hinted at on your post the other day, the owners of the bots should be targeted, not just the users whose coin they take for shit posts. It seems odd to target the users of these services while giving the owners a free pass to profit profit profit off of it. I urge everyone, when these witchhunts begin forming to check the wallets to see who these vote bot machine owners are and begin downvoting them so they can enjoy this as much as the ones paying them. I won't go actively searching to give downvotes, but whenever I see the posse forming I am searching for the bot machine behind it.
In many cases it is the only indirect route to the owners. I'm not a fan of Blind downvote of promoted content.
However, haven't the bidbot owners gotten in the habit of blind upvoting content? And expecting the community to clean up behind them?
This is just a reaction, when they have a better business model and show more responsibility to the community the dislike of them will not be as strong.
We should target the users of the most offensive bots. Their customers (the good ones) Will use more responsible bots to support. Then we kill the worst and save those who hold value in the community.
In turn, the delegators will move their stake to the good bots that manage to find a way to do less damage.
I like to say, vote with your dollars, in this case... Vote with your vote. Do not support witnesses or bots that do not have a stated standard and a plan for removing bad votes.
The idea that because it is subjective it can't be done is lazy and bullshit.
The dislike the community has towards the bidbots is a direct response to the way they have conducted themselves.
They need to run some PR and clean up their act. Whining isn't going to help them
I can see this being the case at times, but I noticed the link on your post the other day the bot service had a post and comment in the last 7 days I threw my weak downvotes on. I figure if not for the greed of those running the service there would be very few posts to target. They get away unscathed and richer while the person using their service takes full brunt.
There is this going on with one of the vote services right now, with flexing going on. I used a downvote there as well for the bullying being used under a pretense of seeking dialogue with the writer of the post.
As you can see, the authors post has been greyed.
Will be interesting to see where all of this goes.
Fyrstikken spent 2 hours in my discord today talking to us about avoiding the war! He has created some standards.
Just read your post. Sorry no value to my vote anymore. Since the fork is went back to zero. Might as well vote at 1% on comments now. :)
You can only target the owners if they post. Do many of them post? I always imagined they didn't need to, because their earnings would come from the bots.
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yeah f*** off, you wanna 'taget' people? You're the police now? Get lost, you write like a fascist.
Bitter because your audience is mostly paid for bots? I'm sorry that you have to pay to get votes on your writing. Not everyone is that good that actual people will reward their work, just how it goes. At first I was surprised at the violent reaction you display as I was advocating for the stopping of targeting the likes of you and going after those who create this dynamic, but then it made sense when I realized they were your paid for friends.
Not to worry though, I still won't target the likes of you if and when I see a posse forming for you if it happens. I will look to the offending bot as I suggested here. :)
Blessings to you and yours
I just have 0 tolerance for intolerance. Freedom always comes with the price of defending it.
And just to be clear, the violent reaction is that one which causes damage to others. Intentions and meaning will never solve real problems unless they heal and help. Fit that in your downvotes and degrading thoughts towards different behaviors of HF20 and before.
And now, all my words, do they harm you - no?! :)) But deciding on systematic downvoting does decrease rewards, does damage people directly - right or wrong? For the sake of the better good.. pathetic.
And I have high expectations of content, you mostly won't hurt me. But I dislike anything that cuts freedom of choice and success, especially on STEEM. None needs that.
You are the offender, I do oppose you right here.
in the end, you talk about 'targeting people', and then call me 'violant'... tzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz funny you are, not worth my time I guess
Totally agree. Just suggesting we don't kill the bots entirely here and let people know it's ok to bot a post that actually ads value.
People know that already. I see good posts upvoted by bidbots which don't get downvoted.
No they don't Check out my post about Litecoin.
Why would you do that? It's mostly just going to be a waste of money because a post that adds value can get votes for free without buying them.
I disagree. Steem has always been about "who you know" and after HF21 it is even more so that way. One of the key reasons I have always been a supporter of bidbots is because of my understanding of how economic disparity happens.
Economic disparity is not a social challenge, its a feature of the laws of nature. Specifically, economic disparity is directly related to the power of networks. Human networks work in such a way that "who you know" makes all the difference in how many opportunities come your way. If your parent is a famous actor there is a good chance that you can get some acting role in your lifetime if you want one.
Economic disparity is correlated with your human network effect. On Steem, this is especially true for people. You might toss an upvote here or there to a stranger with a nice post, but in all likelihood you have a circle, and the members of that circle experience upvotes from you far more often.
Now, as newcomers arrive their network effect is 0, so they have to build it up. Commenting helps, but still, you will have to do a lot of commenting and a lot of posting quality content before your network effect is of much value. People simply need to know that you exist and that you are likeable, which is not all that easy to do quickly.
The upvote services provided people with the opportunity to grow their human network rapidly, putting their posts/ideas before many eyes right away. That is a good thing, and now that is gone.
If people want equality, they need to understand that economic disparity is directly related to human networks. The more people that know you the more opportunities will come your way. Thus, an upvote service increases the odds of people making new connections with other people and widening their human network, which can improve equality among the community members of Steem.
But hey, the bot services are doomed now, so whatevs...
You are right about the value in promotional services. It is misusing the reward pool mechanism for that purpose which is the real problem.
We have the promotion tab, but the problem is that no one looks at it. Maybe it would be a good idea for more of the user base to try to encourage Steemit to start showing some of the promoted posts on more visible pages such as Trending, feed, etc. I know this suggestion has been made before but it has fallen on deaf ears.
If there was a way for people to use bidbots without it ever being directly profitable to do so, that would be the ideal scenario.
There isn't such a way, without declining rewards or burning a large portion of the rewards, possibly all of them (or strong downvotes which accomplish similarly). The problem is that you have to look at both sides of the transaction (vote buyer and vote seller). If the only variable is the vote price then making it less profitable for the buyer makes it more profitable for the seller and vice-versa.
I do agree with this.
I completely agree. Perhaps we should get this message on trending. I think if every bidbot had a slight cost to use it, then we could strike a balance of promotion and content. It was a great feature, but when it becomes directly profitable, over the long run, it likely undermines the price of steem.
How do we turn this ship around?
But who would get to decide which posts adds value and are approved for an upvote by the bot?? And wouldn't that destroy the whole ideal behind a decentralized platform? Now your going to censor posts and refuse to upvote them if you don't like their material? That is somehow worse because you are acting like google, youtube and fb shadow banning people.. lol.. just admit it, bidbots are a huge money maker for you and you don't want to loose out on that income. Unfortunately all of steemit suffered so you few whales could clean house.. you sold votes which cost you nothing and then cashed that out, how does that help support a system?
Who decides what has value? Shall we choose a value Judge now? Ridiculous, I thought you're a person of freedom and personal rights... now you use "value" in a cultural sense of the word. What do you mean with that, your vision of value right?
That is the question isn't it? How people value determines markets. Social media is information shared between people, and various platforms exist that enable people to indicate how they relatively value information by voting. Only on Steem is that value purchasable overtly by buying votes.
Clearly that isn't other people setting the value, or curation.
So, are you claiming the power to buy what society values? Because that's what you're defending.
You might feel cool to call me out and act as I'd be a bad person for my opinions. But you should stick to the facts. I don't claim anything here, I'm just thinking over real consequences in an open-minded way.
So now talking about reality, barely a single word you wrote down makes any sense when really thought through.
Social Media is just the name we gave platforms, where people can create media for one another. Facebook and Google value upvotes and downvotes often the very same way because they just care about engagement.
No - just total nonsense. Where is that coming from? There is not a single big Media Outlet (including Social Media) where you can't get featured for money. Where is that even coming from?
I want you to remember Newtons first law:
"Every body persists in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed."
Yes. I want people to be able to spend FIAT money (value) to push their content on STEEM to higher value. Bid bots are a way to do that, nothing wrong with that part of the system. If STEEM would be a place on an island with no connection to the outer world, then you'd maybe be right. But it isn't, and if it would be - we both might not be here anyway, so let's not be hypocritical.
I think beyond your nonsense, I get what you really wanna say and I just disagree - it's fine.