I think there is a subconscious bias against African-Americans in some parts of the country, usually areas where people of other races were raised to be afraid of men of their color (it always seems to be the men, not the African-American women, who are subject to this kind of treatment). Having grown up in the south, I have seen it, and was even told as a kid that you don't let black people in your house, and that they are to be viewed as suspicious if they are in your neighborhood. I HOPE I've overcome that....I've definitely tried to. After living in the northeast for several years, and then coming back to the south, I DO see black males being treated differently than other people. It is happening. It is a thing, and we need to work to overcome it.
As a white woman, I've been to plenty of Starbucks and other restaurants and fast food places and arrived first to wait for friends. Plenty of times, I've ordered nothing, or only a free glass of water, while I waited, and all I had to do was say I was waiting for people before ordering, and it was all cool. And, I can't even count the number of times I've used a restaurant bathroom while on road trips....almost always without ordering. I just go in, use it, and leave. No one EVER says anything.
So, when I see something like this happening with black men doing the same thing I and my friends do all the time with no issue, I can't help but think the manager who called the police had some inherent, and maybe unknown, bias against black men.
These guys were right....they weren't doing ANYTHING wrong.
And, on a side note, what about all of the protests against the Vietnam war in the 60's and 70's? Do you think that was manufactured outrage, too? I don't. I think those protesters were exercising a Constitutional right, and they had a very valid point in what they were protesting.
Plenty of times, I've ordered nothing, or only a free glass of water, while I waited, and all I had to do was say I was waiting for people before ordering, and it was all cool. And, I can't even count the number of times I've used a restaurant bathroom while on road trips....almost always without ordering. I just go in, use it, and leave. No one EVER says anything.
Same here. There are lots of places in the country that don't have locks on bathrooms and don't require purchase for use of bathrooms. I grew up in such a place. Most places you stop at in between destinations (aka: "flyover country") are like this, usually because they are small towns that don't generally have problems with people violating bathrooms.
I've also been to plenty of places that require purchase to use bathrooms. In those cases, I purchase something and use the bathroom. I don't do what these guys did: Ask to use the bathroom, get told I needed to buy something to use it, refuse to buy anything and sit back down, then be told by employees that if I don't buy anything I'll be considered as trespassing and the cops will be called, refuse again to leave or buy anything, have cops called and when the cops come and give me three opportunities to leave I refuse them all, then get arrested.
I've never done anything like that. I wouldn't think to do something like that. I'd wager that you have never done anything like that either and wouldn't imagine doing anything like that. Objectively, that has nothing to do with race. They weren't arrested for being black. There's a a whole series of events that explain why the incident happened, and it makes sense.
Considering all of that and the degree to and speed of which the media jumped on this to force a narrative tells me it's manufactured.
And, on a side note, what about all of the protests against the Vietnam war in the 60's and 70's? Do you think that was manufactured outrage, too?
I have no idea. That's not something I've looked into. There are many manufactured protests these days, however.
Racism is the evil
if the incident is anyhow affected by the color or race of those guys, it's disgraced
but we can't see the results in a parallel world! And we judge this is because of the color and race, with the bias we have in our mind from past memories...
So the truth is not very clear.
I upvoted your post because of the effort you put in it, but honestly I prefered you had a more nuetral explanation.
We have to tolerate more and teach everyone to love more. Hate and racism will make nothing better in our planet.
There's something really wrong with the us. False outrage and manufactured sentiments is not new, but apparently it has been taken to another dimension where you can escape with anything just for claiming oppressed. I find the Starbucks issue disgusting
People have discovered that outrage can be culturally weaponized in a very effective way. They were only guessing before, but now it's down to a precise science.
Narrative shapers can control groups of people like puppet masters.
Starbucks really takes advantage of the situation, after the closure have flown with an aggressive marketing policy, advertising experts know that these cases usually involve forceful actions.
Beyond the case I think it is exaggerated and that the media act with double standards, if the case is sincere I feel sorry for men but there are also policies in the use of bathrooms and common areas. A business wants to sell that simple.
No one remembers when Starbucks limited the Wi-Fi for only customers for a while, nobody said anything, that corporate policy, just that.
I do not support racism but there are more important things, coincidentally the fact involves a global chain. The media and their cases, nothing happens by chance.
In two weeks nobody will remember the people of the incident, but Starbucks will have a new corporate world code, will be able to make publicity campaigns and many other things.
Soon we will see a TV commercial where they show smiling black people drinking coffee and at the end of the stage they will show the bathrooms
Best regards, great analysis, interesting post. The debate allows us to learn and communicate.
This NEVER happens to me. I am white. I got to Coffee shops every day to work. Not once has anything like this happened. I often sit down and wait for someone I am meeting, before deciding to buy anything. This incident happened because the Black men were profiled by the manager and then the way the Cops treated them subsequently.
Moreover, you are quick and easy to accept the narrative of the Police. Are you a White American? We often do this based on our experience. You should go beyond the breakdown of a random internet troll and FOX's Laura Ingraham. If she was the Barista at Starbucks no doubt she would tell them to "Shut Up and Buy Something."
Nobody bothered them until they tried to use the bathroom without buying anything. It's a very common policy, especially in major cities, to require purchase to use bathrooms. When they refused to buy anything or leave, they were trespassing. The employee told them they called the cops because they were trespassing, they didn't care. The cops gave them three chances to leave, they didn't care. Then they were arrested.
Have you ever done anything like that?
I'm going to disregard your comments about my race and my personal experience with police.
You provide an interesting treatment of the story. I was working on a post about this as well but I’m not sure it will see the light of day. I teach at Community College of Philadelphia, and I brought up the situation in three of my classes. My students opinions ranged from, yes, it’s definitely an example of implicit bias, to, yeah, probably an example. If you are black you’ve very likely experienced this sort of treatment in public. So, what is interesting to me is that this exact situation might not be the best example of implicit bias and profiling, but that ends up being beside the point, because we ultimately can’t really separate the micro from the macro. I compare it to how a couple might argue about a chore in the house. If one person points out a specific example of the other not doing their share of the work, it can almost always be argued that it’s no big deal. “Are you hassling me about the dishes again?!” But what the person is really trying to point out is a pattern of disrespect. In general, the general public has a hard time accepting that there are patterns of micro aggression type abuse. I’ve seen it many times that someone pointing out an example like the Starbucks situation is accused of just trying to sow division. There are a lot of people that literally don’t think racism exists. So although I agree with your argument that the protesters are sowing manufactured rage, I can also totally appreciate their desire to take advantage of a viral story to push the narrative that things are pretty screwed up. There are two different stories. One is that what happened at Starbucks might be an example of what black people experience daily. The other is that black people experience implicit bias and racism all the time.
Forgot to add: one detail that hasn’t come out through the media treatment of this is that the policy to boot people who don’t buy anything was apparently just imposed three months ago. This detail came from a student of mine who works at a different Starbucks in Philly but knows, and has worked for the manager in question. This student (a black male, incidentally) said a) the manager is definitely not racist (and in his opinion she just made an embarrassing mistake and he feels bad for her) and b) that everyone working at Starbucks knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. So, on one hand, maybe these two guys pushed the situation on purpose to test the policy and then make a scene. Or maybe it was that they had sat in Starbucks before, and even used the bathroom, without paying in the past. There are a lot of maybes, as you point out as well. My gut tells me these two men pushed the scenario a bit, but again, sometimes that is what we do in conflict to draw attention to a bigger pattern of disrespect. Personally, no matter what the truth of this one situation is, I’m glad it helped raised awareness. The bias that people of color experience is just such a drain on everyone effected by it, so Starbucks being forced into addressing is ultimately a positive thing, in my opinion.
I think there is a subconscious bias against African-Americans in some parts of the country, usually areas where people of other races were raised to be afraid of men of their color (it always seems to be the men, not the African-American women, who are subject to this kind of treatment). Having grown up in the south, I have seen it, and was even told as a kid that you don't let black people in your house, and that they are to be viewed as suspicious if they are in your neighborhood. I HOPE I've overcome that....I've definitely tried to. After living in the northeast for several years, and then coming back to the south, I DO see black males being treated differently than other people. It is happening. It is a thing, and we need to work to overcome it.
As a white woman, I've been to plenty of Starbucks and other restaurants and fast food places and arrived first to wait for friends. Plenty of times, I've ordered nothing, or only a free glass of water, while I waited, and all I had to do was say I was waiting for people before ordering, and it was all cool. And, I can't even count the number of times I've used a restaurant bathroom while on road trips....almost always without ordering. I just go in, use it, and leave. No one EVER says anything.
So, when I see something like this happening with black men doing the same thing I and my friends do all the time with no issue, I can't help but think the manager who called the police had some inherent, and maybe unknown, bias against black men.
These guys were right....they weren't doing ANYTHING wrong.
And, on a side note, what about all of the protests against the Vietnam war in the 60's and 70's? Do you think that was manufactured outrage, too? I don't. I think those protesters were exercising a Constitutional right, and they had a very valid point in what they were protesting.
Same here. There are lots of places in the country that don't have locks on bathrooms and don't require purchase for use of bathrooms. I grew up in such a place. Most places you stop at in between destinations (aka: "flyover country") are like this, usually because they are small towns that don't generally have problems with people violating bathrooms.
I've also been to plenty of places that require purchase to use bathrooms. In those cases, I purchase something and use the bathroom. I don't do what these guys did: Ask to use the bathroom, get told I needed to buy something to use it, refuse to buy anything and sit back down, then be told by employees that if I don't buy anything I'll be considered as trespassing and the cops will be called, refuse again to leave or buy anything, have cops called and when the cops come and give me three opportunities to leave I refuse them all, then get arrested.
I've never done anything like that. I wouldn't think to do something like that. I'd wager that you have never done anything like that either and wouldn't imagine doing anything like that. Objectively, that has nothing to do with race. They weren't arrested for being black. There's a a whole series of events that explain why the incident happened, and it makes sense.
Considering all of that and the degree to and speed of which the media jumped on this to force a narrative tells me it's manufactured.
I have no idea. That's not something I've looked into. There are many manufactured protests these days, however.
Racism is the evil
if the incident is anyhow affected by the color or race of those guys, it's disgraced
but we can't see the results in a parallel world! And we judge this is because of the color and race, with the bias we have in our mind from past memories...
So the truth is not very clear.
I upvoted your post because of the effort you put in it, but honestly I prefered you had a more nuetral explanation.
We have to tolerate more and teach everyone to love more. Hate and racism will make nothing better in our planet.
There's something really wrong with the us. False outrage and manufactured sentiments is not new, but apparently it has been taken to another dimension where you can escape with anything just for claiming oppressed. I find the Starbucks issue disgusting
People have discovered that outrage can be culturally weaponized in a very effective way. They were only guessing before, but now it's down to a precise science.
Narrative shapers can control groups of people like puppet masters.
Man, that video of the guy getting his "reparation coffee" is so cringe.
He's hilarious!
Starbucks really takes advantage of the situation, after the closure have flown with an aggressive marketing policy, advertising experts know that these cases usually involve forceful actions.
Beyond the case I think it is exaggerated and that the media act with double standards, if the case is sincere I feel sorry for men but there are also policies in the use of bathrooms and common areas. A business wants to sell that simple.
No one remembers when Starbucks limited the Wi-Fi for only customers for a while, nobody said anything, that corporate policy, just that.
I do not support racism but there are more important things, coincidentally the fact involves a global chain. The media and their cases, nothing happens by chance.
In two weeks nobody will remember the people of the incident, but Starbucks will have a new corporate world code, will be able to make publicity campaigns and many other things.
Soon we will see a TV commercial where they show smiling black people drinking coffee and at the end of the stage they will show the bathrooms
Best regards, great analysis, interesting post. The debate allows us to learn and communicate.
Sorry to use a translator.
I think you're right!
This NEVER happens to me. I am white. I got to Coffee shops every day to work. Not once has anything like this happened. I often sit down and wait for someone I am meeting, before deciding to buy anything. This incident happened because the Black men were profiled by the manager and then the way the Cops treated them subsequently.
Moreover, you are quick and easy to accept the narrative of the Police. Are you a White American? We often do this based on our experience. You should go beyond the breakdown of a random internet troll and FOX's Laura Ingraham. If she was the Barista at Starbucks no doubt she would tell them to "Shut Up and Buy Something."
Nobody bothered them until they tried to use the bathroom without buying anything. It's a very common policy, especially in major cities, to require purchase to use bathrooms. When they refused to buy anything or leave, they were trespassing. The employee told them they called the cops because they were trespassing, they didn't care. The cops gave them three chances to leave, they didn't care. Then they were arrested.
Have you ever done anything like that?
I'm going to disregard your comments about my race and my personal experience with police.
You provide an interesting treatment of the story. I was working on a post about this as well but I’m not sure it will see the light of day. I teach at Community College of Philadelphia, and I brought up the situation in three of my classes. My students opinions ranged from, yes, it’s definitely an example of implicit bias, to, yeah, probably an example. If you are black you’ve very likely experienced this sort of treatment in public. So, what is interesting to me is that this exact situation might not be the best example of implicit bias and profiling, but that ends up being beside the point, because we ultimately can’t really separate the micro from the macro. I compare it to how a couple might argue about a chore in the house. If one person points out a specific example of the other not doing their share of the work, it can almost always be argued that it’s no big deal. “Are you hassling me about the dishes again?!” But what the person is really trying to point out is a pattern of disrespect. In general, the general public has a hard time accepting that there are patterns of micro aggression type abuse. I’ve seen it many times that someone pointing out an example like the Starbucks situation is accused of just trying to sow division. There are a lot of people that literally don’t think racism exists. So although I agree with your argument that the protesters are sowing manufactured rage, I can also totally appreciate their desire to take advantage of a viral story to push the narrative that things are pretty screwed up. There are two different stories. One is that what happened at Starbucks might be an example of what black people experience daily. The other is that black people experience implicit bias and racism all the time.
Forgot to add: one detail that hasn’t come out through the media treatment of this is that the policy to boot people who don’t buy anything was apparently just imposed three months ago. This detail came from a student of mine who works at a different Starbucks in Philly but knows, and has worked for the manager in question. This student (a black male, incidentally) said a) the manager is definitely not racist (and in his opinion she just made an embarrassing mistake and he feels bad for her) and b) that everyone working at Starbucks knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. So, on one hand, maybe these two guys pushed the situation on purpose to test the policy and then make a scene. Or maybe it was that they had sat in Starbucks before, and even used the bathroom, without paying in the past. There are a lot of maybes, as you point out as well. My gut tells me these two men pushed the scenario a bit, but again, sometimes that is what we do in conflict to draw attention to a bigger pattern of disrespect. Personally, no matter what the truth of this one situation is, I’m glad it helped raised awareness. The bias that people of color experience is just such a drain on everyone effected by it, so Starbucks being forced into addressing is ultimately a positive thing, in my opinion.