MY BACKGROUND
As someone who was raised Muslim and one day woke up to the hard truth and reality that Islam is nothing but a fraud, and that the truth is found in mere Christianity, soon I came to face big fat lies that were being preached and dogmatically defended in mainstream churches. In this article, I'm not going to examine or investigate Islam however. If you're interested in that subject, or if you want to hear me back up my claim about Islam, feel free to check the article I wrote on the subject more than a year ago, by clicking HERE. You can also read about my personal spiritual journey HERE.
LIE #1 - HELL AND ETERNAL CONSCIOUS TORMENT
If I had a penny every time I heard an unbeliever object to how unjust and evil is to punish someone for an infinite period of time for finite amount of crimes, I'd be a millionaire by now. In fact, I used to have the same objection and guess what? This is a valid objection, because it goes against our God-given conscience and senses, rightly so.
Not only that, the very idea of hell or what is referred to in the Bible as the second death, has to match what the Bible teaches about salvation. In other words, the idea of substitutionary atonement and the cross only makes sense if the second death is seen as something finite rather than infinite, otherwise how could Jesus possibly resurrect on the third day?
LIE #2 - ETERNAL SALVATION CANNOT BE ACHIEVED BY FAITH ALONE
Protestants might want you believe that they believe in salvation by faith alone, unlike Catholics but they say actions speak louder than words. Many of them will either reject salvation by faith alone in a straight-up fashion while others believe and preach an inverted version of the gospel. What does that mean? This is actually quite a big subject and it's impossible for me to cover it all in just one article.
But to cut the long story short, Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith and not by works so that no one can boast. In other words, the Gospel is about breaking the ego of us humans and robbing us off of any capacity to boast and have a holier-than-thou attitude. Critics will often label what I'm preaching as easy-believism or cheap grace, all of which are inappropriate and pejorative. As Bob Wilkin explains below, God's grace is not cheap, but rather FREE!
LIE #3 - ETERNAL SALVATION IS NOT OUR CHOICE
This one drives me nuts even more than the other two and it's widely believed among "evangelicals" and Protestants. This is basically a reactionary movement against the second lie I explained above which is largely held by Catholics. This group recognizes very well that eternal salvation is a gift from God and not a result of our works. But they go well beyond what the Bible teaches and assert that even receiving this gift from God can provide a ground for us to boast and so God does not give this gift to everyone but only to a selection of people, chosen before they were even born. This of course provides a huge ground for boasting as you would imagine. It will make them feel "special" in God's eyes and it's very egotistical and arrogant when you think about it. Not to mention the fact that it makes God look like an absolute jerk from an objective point of view. Their major defense is of course by going to Romans 9:20 and asking you who are you to question God? To which I often answer that I'm not questioning God, but your understanding of God!
Having said that, it is important to keep in mind that you cannot win an argument by a fanatic if you appear to be questioning God. You need to make your point through other means, otherwise you're very unlikely to influence them yet they're very likely to influence others. Why? Simply put, because they're right that humans are not in a position to question or judge their Creator. I often say that IF our Creator was supposedly evil, would He be so stupid to give us the ability to recognize that? It doesn't make any sense. In other words, how can we trust what God has created, in order to come to a conclusion that God is not trustworthy? That's obviously an oxymoron. In order for us to doubt God's goodness, we would have to first trust Him! Because by definition, God is the Creator of our very senses and cognitive faculties that we are using to make arguments and judgements!
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Video #2 - Courtesy of Grace Evangelical Society
Video #3 - Courtesy of Leighton Flowers
This is just for controling people! Good humble and submissive slaves!
What do you mean by "this"? And I'm guessing you're not a "good, humble and submissive slave" and you can do whatever you want. Can you travel to anywhere you want without a VISA? Or are you required to ask for permission from your masters? How about taxes? Can you avoid paying taxes? Or are you going to get punished by your masters if you do?
This post received a 3.5% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @msg768! For more information, click here!
Very well written!
I doubt you read it!
Oh my brother I did, I just didn't have the time at the moment to respond with a well thought out comment. I had to get some stuff done. Now that I have some time let me explain to you the model of salvation that the New Testament has set up.
Think of it like this. Faith = Justification + works.
Justification means "the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God". In other words yes, you must be changed or converted. Born again is also another common term which is also explained further in John 3.
Here is something to think on.
Ya‛aqoḇ (James) 2:14-26
"My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.
And if a brother or sister is naked and in need of daily food,
but one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” but you do not give them the bodily needs, what use is it?
So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead.
But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works.
You believe that Elohim is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder!
But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?
Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the slaughter-place?
Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?
And the Scripture was filled which says,“Aḇraham believed Elohim, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him,“he who loves Elohim.”
You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone.
In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works."
https://www.bible.com/bible/316/JAS.2.14-26
My understanding comes to this. Faith = Justification + works....
MEANING THIS.
If you have faith, then you will have the justification of being made Holy by God. However, what good is that if you have nothing to show for it. Therefore. Your works is proof of your justification. Not required to be saved, but rather a bi-product of your salvation.
Ok thanks for reading then. I'm sorry to think you didn't! It's just that I really dislike getting fake comments from bots and for a moment, I thought that was the case with you too but clearly I was wrong...
No worries! It's all done in love!
I agree with you. Grace through faith but I do think that there are some fruit or evidence of faith. James said "faith without works is dead" and also we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians. Yes our own works are nothing we rely on mercy and grace and the teachings of grace which Christ gave for us to obey. In the end though it is our obedience that helps us see whether our relationship is in right standing with God. Testing ourselves. Keep up the good work. Grace and Peace!
Faith vs. Works is truly a very polarizing subject. I have written a few articles about it. Maybe you can start by reading the one HERE for starters if you're interested in my take on what James says. And as with Philippians, and working out your salvation with fear and trembling, I do not believe Paul is talking about eternal salvation here. If he was, then he would be contradicting himself. I would recommend that you read this article about Philippians 2:12. The term salvation does not always refer to eternal salvation. It's kind of like 1 Timothy 2:15 where Paul wrote that women will be saved through childbearing, IF they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. Obviously, Paul is not talking about women's eternal salvation here, otherwise it could lead to some pretty dodgy doctrines! Thanks for the comment :]
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Great to hear that you came out of the cult. I hope you find the ultimate truth about who Jesus is and what He's done for humanity and how you can freely inherit eternal salvation through him :]
I was raised to believe that all you need to do is accept forgiveness from Christ and you're all set. I'm cool with that.
As far as God goes, I think it's best not to get his attention. According to the books, just about everyone who interacts with him gets burned in some way. There aren't many stories of people meeting God and living happily ever after.
I'll accept the grace, but that's about it. I'm not trying to get on God's radar.
Grace is offered through faith as far as I'm concerned. You don't seem to have faith in God. In other words, you don't want to trust God which is quite an oxymoron as I explained above. Because you have to first trust God in order to make any sort of judgement about Him. And God, by definition is the origin of everything that exists. So if you want to make judgements about such being or entity, you would have to first trust this entity or being because everything including your own being comes from this being or entity. Hope that makes sense! :]
Sorry, it didn't make much sense to me. Are you saying that you have to trust something before you can make a judgment about it? Can you make a judgment about Satan without trusting in him?
I believe that a very smart, loving, revolutionary man sacrificed himself for the betterment of humanity. I thankfully accept that sacrifice.
I believe that God could exist, but the stories written about him paint him to be a being that should be avoided, not called upon.
As far as I'm concerned, if something murders the entire population of a planet with water, I don't really want anything to do with it. I'll take that heaven-pass from Jesus, but I'm not about to try and get God's attention.
No. I never said anything even remotely close to that.
Satan by definition, is not the origin of everything that exists. You're committing a categorical fallacy here. You have to trust the origin of everything that exists in order to make a judgement about anything including the origin of everything that exists. In fact you already do. You can't trust your senses and cognitive faculties without first trusting the origin of everything that exists.
This is a pretty strange statement. I very much can, and do, trust my senses and cognitive faculties without first "trusting the origin of everything that exists", whatever that means. My eyes and ears work regardless of my belief in God's existence.
Why would anyone base their whole life around something without judging it first? Faith is one thing, but what you're talking about sounds like blindly jumping off cliffs, hoping there is water below you.
I think I'm more cut out for Judaism. I've heard they're big into arguing and debating the nature of God. That seems lacking in Christianity. The problem is that I'm not a fan of their God, Jesus is more my kind of guy.
How do you know your eyes work? How do you know you weren't created two seconds ago with a bunch of aliens who are feeding your eyes false images in a computer simulation? It's not a strange statement to say that you have to trust the origin of everything that exists before you can trust anything or anyone else or make any judgement. It's a fact...
That's just an emotional reaction. There's no logic behind it. As far as a child struck with cancer is concerned, he too wouldn't wanna have anything to do with doctors who wanna inflict him with more pain through chemo, etc. But that too would be an emotional reaction with no logic behind it.
That's called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It won't work...
Says who? Christ already forgave me, who has the ability to take that away from me? Did I miss the part in the bible where Jesus made his forgiveness conditional?
Faith and logic are like oil and water. Logic is defined as "reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity." Faith is believing in something without proof (validation). Let's not make this about who's being more logical here. My beliefs are validated by the words in the bible and the physical evidence that I see in the real world.
I think every religious person should imagine their God in the form of a human. Then imagine that human doing the things that they are reported to have done. Forget all the mystic stuff and try to imagine your God in a show similar to Game of Thrones.
Imagine a character that kills everyone on a planet because he's angry. A character that allows his enemy to torture his most faithful servant and murder his daughters, just to prove how faithful he is. A character that kills every first born son in a thriving city. A character that jokes with a faithful servant by asking him to kill his child, then tells him he's been punk'd at the last minute ("Dude, you almost killed your kid! LOL!").
From what I've read, Jehovah doesn't seem like a good guy. The stories don't inspire love or devotion in me, just fear and disgust. Jesus is cool, but I don't talk to God because I'm afraid that he'll actually hear me.
A side note: I don't mean to hijack your post or trash what you believe in. This is just where I'm at, spiritually. I've got a lot of questions that I haven't found satisfactory answers to and maybe discussing things will bring clarity. If my comments are offensive or annoying to you, I won't persist.
Sorry to jump in on ya'lls conversation but I can't help but comment here.
@fronttowardenemy, You say Christ already forgave you, but by what authority do you think He is capable of doing that? I mean, if He's just some "revolutionary man" who sacrificed himself for "the betterment of society" then in what sense does that work? I mean, if He's just some guy, how is the betterment of society achieved by His sacrifice, and in what sense is His death even a sacrifice?
I think part of your problem is that you've been exposed to too many Christians with a very narrow view of inspiration; the kind of thinking that says, "if the Bible says it, I believe it." Well, the Bible says the Earth is Flat, so should we believe that?
There's actually many different opinions of what "inspired" means, and they don't all require you to believe that the Old Testament is giving literal history. Plus, the ancients had much different standards when writing history as well. Many of the stories in the Old Testament are written as polemic responses to the myths of the other religions in the ancient near east. So, for example the flood: there are flood narratives in almost every ancient culture and some predate the Exodus, Moses wrote Genesis so these stories predate the Genesis account. The Eridu Genesis and the Epic of Gilgamesh were popular myths at the time, and the Hebrew writers were countering the theological statements made in those myths by explaining that it was YHWH, not Marduk or any of the other "gods" of the time/area.
You also need to take into account the very idea of what a "god" was to the ancient world was a being that destroyed your enemies and protected your people, brought rain, punished evil, etc. When these ancient people wrote about their conquests, they often ascribed the violence to their gods. The ancient Hebrews would have been very much like their Sumerian, Canaanite, Babylonian, Egyptian counterparts. Thus, when the Israelites conquered some ancient people, they would ascribe the violence to YHWH, their God. The degree to which they ascribed violence to YHWH is really a reflection of how violent these ancient people were.
I know full well that some of what I said is controversial, even in Christian circles, but it doesn't put me outside the realm of orthodoxy. I'm just trying to make sense of the data we have.
The New Testament tells us that God's character is perfectly represented in Jesus. Hebrews 1:3 says
This means that Jesus perfectly represents God's character. It means that when God's Glory is shining, the "shinyness" is Jesus.
Jesus Himself tells us the He is the same as God:
What I'm suggesting here is that you look at the Old Testament through the lens of the cross. God showed His love for us by laying down His life for us. john 3:16. We know what love means by His example 1 john 3:16. Try to keep Jesus in mind when reading the Old Testament, because He is the revelation given to us:
I don't agree with all you said, but then if two of us agree, one of us is unnecessary. LOL! I do agree with what you say in point #3, though. There is a strange dichotomy in the Bible that says we were predestined, but also that it is our free choice. Both are true in a manner that only God can understand. It's only certain Protestant Churches (those preaching reformed theology) that make a big deal out of predestination!
By the way, I volunteered for a few years with Muslim women at a Christian English Teaching Center, and in order to work with them I was required to take a course called Bridges by Fouad Masri of the Crescent Project. Have you heard of it? It was very interesting and well put together and made a big impression on me.
It's not really that complicated. There are many alternative ways of making sense of "predestination" without removing genuine freewill. My understanding which falls in line with what Dr. Leighton Flowers teaches, is that true believers are predestined AFTER they believe not BEFORE. God has predestined ALL who believe to be saved. Once you believe, you become part of God's election/predestination/plan. As with the other points that you disagree, I would like to advise you to study them in more details and you will see for yourself where I'm coming from. The truth is very simple and in plain sight and if you let it, it will reveal itself to you. Thanks for the comment :]
Well the Bible does say we were predestined before the creation of the world, but because God is outside of time, we can't grasp what that really means, and I don't think it's important that we understand it. Our minds are finite. I've been a Christian for 58 years now, and the one thing I have learned from the different denominations I have attended, is that no one has a handle on the whole truth. What's important is whether we believe that Jesus is who he says He is. Our focus should just be on Him and our personal relationship with Him.
The Bible never talks about individual predestination. It never says John or Mark or Jack or Eve were predestined to be saved and the rest were predestined to be damned. It always talks about corporate election based on faith. The only reason it seems difficult to grasp it is because of the massive amount of indoctrination from the Calvinist camp that exists among Protestants, otherwise it's pretty easy to grasp it. In fact, if no one brought the word predestination to your attention, you probably wouldn't even notice it as it's only used in a few verses here and there and often times it's quickly followed by the required condition which is faith. Take Ephesians 1 for example which is the passage you're referring to. If you continue reading, you will see in Ephesians 1:13 that Paul says to the believers that WHEN you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. He doesn't say before you believed. He says after which proves my point that regeneration comes after you believe not before. Calvinists teach the exact opposite...
I agree. :-)
I agree with all three points. You got my vote and a resteem :)
Thanks Kate :]
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You missed one of the biggest lies being taught today, the doctrine of the trinity. God is and always has been one being and one person, not "three persons". I believe this is one of the most destructive and corruptive lies being taught. It is a stumbling block for many.
Please explain what Jesus meant when He said "I and the Father are one." Then explain how Jesus was the creator of the world before He was born. Then explain how Jesus could be God and be limited as a man, while at the same time being the One who holds the world together.
John 17:20-23. Jesus prays to God, that we would be one as they are one. One in mind, spirit, and love. It does not mean we are to become God. I hope that helps. I can't answer the rest because it just doesn't make sense. I can only explain what the Bible says and teaches.
Okay, I don't really understand how this is anti-Trinitarian. If Jesus is one in mind, spirit, and love with God, and the bible says God is love, and God is Spirit, how does this go against the idea of Trinity?
Nobody is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. The reason Christians believe in the Trinity is because it makes sense of what Jesus and the New Testament writers say about Him. Also, there's the whole idea of the "Word of God" and the "Angel of God" and "Wisdom of God" all of which are personified in the Old Testament as YHWH.
Jesus said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." How can that be interpreted any way other than Jesus claiming to be God? Isn't that why the Jews wanted to stone Him?
Jesus forgives sins, which only God can do(Mark 2:5). Jesus calls Himself "I Am" the name YHWH revealed Himself to Moses as (John 8:58). Jesus said He is the First and the Last, which is a title for YHWH in Isaiah.(rev 1:17, Is 44:6)
I don't see any way around it but to say that Jesus is either who He said He was, God Almighty, or He wasn't. If He was, in what sense could He pray to the Father?
Jesus said that he was the son of God, the Christ. It's much simpler than you realize. I have no desire to argue, I just wish to share the truth with others.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I just asked you to explain your point of view. If you can't, okay then. Have a nice day!
Your pride is your worst enemy. Be honest here, you really don't care about the answers.
Jesus prayed that we MAY be one. But we're not one with God. We fall short. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There is none good but God alone. Was Jesus good or wicked like other humans? If he was good, then he was also God. Also, nowhere in scripture does anyone claims to have existed before Abraham. You don't get your anti-Trinitarian objections from the Bible. Jesus prayed so he can't be God is not an objection when the answer to your objection is found in the Bible. He humbled himself and became man. He did not come to be worshiped or to be served. He came to serve and gave his life as a ransom for many. What's your next objection? Jesus went to toilet so he can't be God? Jesus died on the cross so he can't be God? When you don't understand the dual nature of Jesus, and you assume that everyone can have only one nature, you're bound to come up with silly objections like that.
The nature of God is complex and perhaps Trinity is the only way we can try to explain it using our limited vocabulary so I'm not that concerned about Trinity. And yes there are many stumbling blocks to the truth. Those who seek answers from man rather than God are bound to fall for deceptions like Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses or some other cult out there...
Don't fall for the lies that God is too complex or too unknowable. God has spoken to mankind for thousands of years and even sent His own Son to show us who He is. He wants us to know him.
The trinity comes from man. It is called a mystery because it is not found in the Scriptures. It is a tradition passed down through the Roman Catholic Church(speaking of cults). If you believe that God is three people, then you believe in a false god(s) and not the God of the Bible. I don't say this as an attack but as a plea of truth. If you left Islam to adopt Roman Catholic beliefs then you are not much better off.
God showed himself to us through Jesus Christ. You don't like that because you don't want to worship a god who humbles himself and goes on the cross. It's an emotional problem that you have to deal with, not a scriptural problem. Whether you wanna explain that through Trinity or some other word, I can't care less, as long as you accept the divinity of Christ Jesus and worship HIM as your God ;]
You make a lot of assumptions and assertions about my beliefs. The truth is that I only wish to believe what the Scriptures teach. Have patience and be willing to listen to others.
Not really. I just happen to be familiar with the emotional roller coaster that everyone goes through as well as the stumbling blocks to the simple truth that is laid out in the Bible...
A bible rewritten by romans. A religion which is unsure off who is at the top. Is god the unseen? Is jesus god? Is jesus son of god? Then theres the holy spirit and the angel. Thats not even to going into the many contradictions. The book itself has so much things you can question, even the authors themselves weren't sure who exactly was God whilst they wrote the old testament and then rewrote the whole thing to suit their pagan views. Jesus never even said he was christian in the bible. So where did the word christian or christianity come from? I believe in God but i don't believe in religion and the bible hardly screems out the truth. Some say jesus is God, some christians say he was the father or he is the son of God but that the definition off idol worshiping. Can a man really be a god in other words a creator? I would say it is impossible because i am a human and i know i can't do the impossible. So you'll respond and say "but you're not jesus". Jesus was still a man but not a god maybe an apostle like the muslims claim because it makes no sense for God to come down as a human and then kill himself. Could jesus make a bird out off dust? No because he was not a creator or a God. I come from a christian background but i criticise the religion for the many flaws it has in the bible. I rather not just take on board what i would call a great fairy tale.