To Catch A Whale - What do they think about all this “Whale” talk, and how do we get their attention?

in #circlejerk8 years ago (edited)

I’ve seen a number of posts recently which promise fool-proof ways to get your content noticed, particularly the ever elusive Whale Vote.

Timing, yes of course. A good headline, got it, and images - absolutely!

What I realized, though, is that none of those posts were by actual ‘whales’ themselves. So I decided to reach out to a few to gather their thoughts on the whole thing, and I found a couple that weren’t too busy in between meals of microscopic plankton.

I went to the richlist and selected a number of high ranking individuals and got in contact with them. Of those who were available to contact, some of them responded, some did not - understandably, as we’ll see shortly. It’s tough to reach most of the top 10 as an unknown.

@jacobt has written that the circle jerk must end, and for the most part I agree with that assesment (and so did at least one of my interviewees) yet here I am adding more jerk to the circle. Bear with me, though.

I normally post plenty of non-Steemit related material, and I plan to continue doing so -- this is a brief interruption in my regularly scheduled programming!

So what did “the whales” have to say for themselves?

Whales are people too!

I’ve gathered that the high value voters generally aren’t fans of all of this “whale” talk.

I’m sure that there are individuals who don’t mind, or don’t care, but the people that I spoke with expressed that the term “whale” is a bit depersonalising. That’s fair enough.

They were early adopters, and have benefitted greatly, but they’re still people.

People often treat them like a cash register, forgetting the human element sitting behind those majestic whale accounts moving slowly past your most recent post, not even considering the upvote button!

They aren’t a monolith, “The Whales”, they have their own thoughts, and they don’t work in collusion necessarily unless - like any other people, it serves their mutual self-interest. They have their own ideas about what should be acceptable or not on Steemit, and what should be rewarded. They don’t all get along with each other! Imagine that?!

Spammy McSpamface

Every single person that I spoke with mentioned that they are constantly barraged with links in PMs, often enhanced by sob stories. This is not the way to get their attention.

Now, I’ve tried this and I don’t blame people for trying it either! We know where the big money votes come from, and we want that fast track, please and thank you! But begging for upvotes or views isn’t going to work, it just makes them ignore everyone more. This was highlighted by a few of those interviewed.


Say no to spam

It will only make things worse. If you thought you were about to be put on that magical autovote list, you could easily find yourself put on the ignore list if you spam them with links.

A couple said they maintain a follow list. This means that if you make good contributions, and a high value poster comes along and sees this, you could end up on that list! By the way, you can use SteemStats.com to keep track of your followed users. It’s a really great resource, thanks to @jesta .

Besides that, we know that there are autovote lists maintained by some others, which are curated carefully to maximise the good and minimize the bad effects. The benefits of automatic voting can be discussed elsewhere! I’ve posted before about The List and how much I’d love it, but I’m also a bit skeptical of its usage on Steemit as it is today. The early days were different. But let’s move on!

Let’s drop the “pander to the whales” bullshit

I’m nobody to be telling you what audience you should write for, but for me, I’d rather write for my people and not for the top 10 largest account holders, some of whom are not really that active! At the end of the day, unless I know these high value voters personally, I won’t know what they’re into anyway. I can go around checking what they appear to upvote and copy that — but then I’m just a copy cat, that can’t be very fulfilling and it probably won’t work any way.

The advice I received was this, and others have said it over and over;

Post what you’re passionate about, it will attract others who are passionate about the same things.

If those people happen to be high value voters, then that’s an added bonus!

Those interviewed said that sometimes they will upvote things just to have a bit of fun, it’s not all serious business! Often they will upvote posts which aren’t necessarily their cup of tea contentwise, but which encourage discussion or bring up some good points.

Making a few cents on your post is deflating, I know…

But you cannot count on a group of people at the top to always be present and always be watching every new post, there’s just too much shitposting and, to be fair, a lot of goldposting too (is that even a real term?) which can get lost.

Going through the brand new posts is a real hassle, those interviewed said that they simply don’t have the time, and it’s true that most of us don’t.

So how do you stand out?

Build relationships naturally, be real, honest, authentic. Also be very active.

Find out who your people are and where they congregate. If you’re a photographer, drop us some lines in the #photography tag If you’re a writer, try #writing. Do you love tortoises, like I do? Check out #tortoises and interact with those people (I think it might only be me!!) Building those communities, I was told, is what will make Steemit survive in the long run.

Start a new tag! Did you notice the #SteemitPhotoChallenge tag trending recently? That’s because I had an idea and ran with it! Though I did not solicit any high value voters nor did I pander. It would not have been as successful if it was not supported by @berniesanders, of course, but I didn’t go into it with that mindset. I did it because I wanted to highlight the great photographers that I know we have on here, and @berniesanders chose to support that initiative.

Focus on what you’re good at, do what you love, and be who you are. If you fail, then you’re just a terrible person. No, I’m just kidding. If you don’t achieve immediate success, don’t become disillusioned - this thing is going to take some time. Have you ever tried creating a successful blog from scratch? It’s tough, much tougher than Steemit. Just keep swimming and use the avenues available to you.

Build The Middle Class

In finalizing this article I saw a trending post on this very topic, written by @timd, praising the rise of the Dolphins— the middle class. Make sure you read that article! It's pretty good and this now only serves to reinforce their points.

Steemit is new. Everyone here is an early adopter. Not the earliest adopters, but still early adopters. The chance for growth is gigantic, make sure that you’re active so that you can move up with the platform. Vote for things that you like, even if it’s just a few cents.

I’d feel better with 10 $50 upvotes than 1 $500 upvote. Of course, the payout is the same, and I’m obviously not asking high power voters not to upvote me! But I’d feel like I made more of an impact with the 10 $50 votes, meaning that 10 people appreciated it enough to upvote rather than just the one. 500 $1 votes would also feel pretty good, if you’re picking up what I’m putting down here. The point is that the wealth is going to grow for active users. If you put in the time and energy, you may not get that fast track to immense wealth that most people don’t get. But you will be able to slowly build your influence and the middle class. The pool is small right now, use that to your advantage!

It’s true that an upvote from a high value voter is a fast track to exposure, and a high payout. But the value of active accounts can only increase over time, because you are generating small amounts of Steem Dollars and Steem Power through your interactions and posts.

I believe I'm coming to understand how the high value voters are instrumental in building the middle class. The public may not always agree with the methods or the individual posts, but generally speaking the posters that are being supported are worth supporting, especially if they then turn around and support those 'below' them in the list.

When you get $10 on a post that you were going to put on Instagram for free — that’s still pretty good. It’s not $1000, I understand, I’d prefer to get $1000 on all my posts consistently as well! I’d quit my job and move to the Caribbean.. Oh, wait...never mind.

By growing our own reputation and being active in posting, we can't help but gain upwards mobility on this platform.

So the take away, in summary...

  • Don’t spam links in PMs
  • Don’t treat high value voters like robots or cash registers
  • Do write passionately, if you pick up a ‘whale’, great, if not - great.
  • Make sure that you yourself are seeking out the type of content that you like, upvoting it, and promoting it, not just yourself.
  • Build the middle class!
  • Network, build relationships naturally with people. Comment and interact, be active on the forums.

Have a nice day!

and build the middle class.

Thanks to those interviewed for their time and energy, and thanks to @tuck-fheman for giving this a once over. Much appreciated!

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Interesting blog. To go into more depth in creating a community; involves responses to comments, a style which your community appreciates, and not worry about the price tag of creating articles. The last can be frustrating I look at each post as a form of expressing myself. Also add images

and gifs.

you spam link in here:D

I feel flattered that @berniesanders liked my article :D This is more worth to me than the money that it brings. It just feels good to see that a person with way more influence thinks the same way you do. :DDD

Well, i have to say i have never liked this "whale" talk for some reason, i think it is because i feel it offending for a person who made his balance big thanks to his hard work! I know many people who claims that most of big players here got it from inheritence, or won lottery: It is stupid!
They were doing mistakes but that led them to money - so tell me why YOU can't do the same thing?

Start making great posts, do hard work for yourself, and maybe you will get there too ?

i think many people need to start having more fun and worryying less about what they're going to earn here on the site. if everyone would just start posting what they enjoy i think we would start to see some new niche communities start to form which would be really cool.

Yes and no, I'd prefer to see original content, and original content takes time and energy... I think people should be rewarded for their time and energy, and so I don't think just posting something you like should be rewarded so highly. IF you created it, then you put time and energy into it and that should be rewarded [if I like it ;) ]!

Great article. That's how my attitude towards steemit is as well. I used to post all my stuff for free on Instagram (usually getting 1000-2000 likes without any real value), so why not post it here instead - if I'm lucky I'll make some bucks, if not I haven't lost anything by posting. So it's a winwin situation really. I'll continue to make quality posts about topics that interests me, and we'll see how it turns out in the long run. :)

Whoa 2000 likes what are you a rock star :)

It really is a win-win if you're a content creator, doing what you'd be doing anyway!

Haha, sure feels like it sometimes :D Started a year ago from zero, just knew I wanted to learn how to draw. So it's been a crazy year, I'm a bit of a loner, so all that attention I eventually got (even if it was just on social media) was new to me. And yeah, exactly :)

"Post what you’re passionate about, it will attract others who are passionate about the same things. If those people happen to be high value voters, then that’s an added bonus!"

That's what I think as well. Ideally, it will be the content that will be rewarded the most in the long-term. It could take some tweaking on the voting incentives though.

I liked the lottery comparison a lot which i read already several times, that` s exactly like i see crypto.
Like a saving account with build in lottery.
Honestly i` m happy about all the people getting money, that`s awesome when you all get rich because then the chances for some small crumbs for me aren` t that bad. :D
Even when i` m only paid cents for posting my photos here on steemit, on all other networks i got nothing. That` s so great.
Steemit is such an exciting place even when it sometimes seems unfair, but who cares.
Was the world ever fair ? No, and it would be naive to expect fairness here.
It` s everywhere the same in my experience.
If you offer something with value you will be rewarded somewhen.
Sometimes you just have to be more patient.

This is a great post to bring everyone down to reality. I will admit when my hubby told me about Steemit and I first looked into it I just about pee'd my pants with excitement. Then my hubby brought me be back down to earth and made me realize that not everyone or every post will be sitting in the thousands from the "trending" page you first see when you come to steemit.

Yesterday I posted my very first post with a short introduction written in story format to begin a series of stories about who I am and what I have become ... you can check it out here if anyone is interested My Intro / Story

As I sat there spending well over 4 hours writing it ( yes I know its crazy amount of time for what it actually ended up being ) I accepted the fact it wasn't probably going to be one of those home run or lottery type posts. But I was extremely OK with that. I personally want to write quality content to share with those who enjoy what I have. If I make a few bucks that is awesome! ( I made about $25 .. which is going straight into steem!) I find this to be humbling, amazing and exciting. I spent many hours on other sites like Facebook only to watch Mr. Mark Zuckerberg become a billionaire off everyone elses content. So what has been created here for us, especially content creators is freakin amazing.

In the end, some people will be envious, jealous and think they are "owed" a jackpot. In reality just do what you like to do and accept what "value" you are given by your upvotes and from there improve, but stay true to yourself in the process.

That's exactly how people should view steemit. :) Just upvoted..

I like this, and I'll also add that you mustn't throw content out there and hope something sticks, but also comment and interact with people - like what you're doing now! That's how people get to know your 'face', as it were.

Very well written with all the right exclamation marks.

You don't write for whales or whatever other animal species.

You write because you have a passion for something and a need to express it and relate it to the people who are passionate about it too.

Upvotes and Steem whatever is an added bonus.

That's it.

By the way:

  • I like tortoises but I don't have them in my backyard; I am a dog person,
  • @jesta +s https://steemstats.com/ is pure gold; without it I would be lost in Steemit universe

Keep on the good work!

I love writing about random things in my day or topics close to my heart. I've picked up a few friends along the way which is great. I really enjoy just reading some of the "normal" posts too. Lives can be so different around the world so what may seem boring to one person actually could be very informative to others. Just keep posting!

This is exactly why I joined this community. I have always wanted to share my ideas about how pop culture could be used to teach my kids and students moral lessons. I now feel like I have an excuse to finally do it. Even if I don't make a single penny, at least I'll have the joy of creating and sharing... plus I'm pretty sure that at least my wife will read them.

Great post, minus all the whale talk. I think what people need to realize is that steemit, just like any other media source, is insanely flooded with people that want attention. And just like in any other media source, cute girls get attention for being cute girls, while the rest of us will have to continue to try and post more intriguing content.

I feel you should post what you are passionate about, regardless of whether it caters to larger steam power sources/upvotes or not. Great content will win over bullshit every time when it comes down to it.

Post your own original/interesting content.
Post what you are passionate about.
Don't spam anyone in the delusion that this will get you the attention you want, it will only hurt your case.
Don't try to jump on the boat that, "Oh, this is the type of content that seems to get upvoted, so I will try to post info about that, whether or not I actually have knowledge of it."

That is where all the generic, plagiarized shit is coming from anyway.

I totally understand why people want to figure out what content gets upvoted and write to that. We need to eat! That's what's done 'out there' on blogs everywhere, but the audience is usually much bigger.

It's not all about artsy fartsy express yourself stuff, it comes down to a bottom line sometimes - can I earn a living through this platform? If yes, I will do what I need to do. I understand it. But I think a balance is needed and I want to see people who are just doing their own thing get rewarded consistently.

Best thing to do is to network (its a social network after all) and find your people, and write to them.

I bet more people fail posting content they have no passion for because they think it is going to get them more UpVotes.

"Best thing to do is to network (its a social network after all) and find your people, and write to them."

This is kind of contradictory to this:
"I totally understand why people want to figure out what content gets upvoted and write to that. We need to eat! That's what's done 'out there' on blogs everywhere, but the audience is usually much bigger."

People should get jobs/work if they want to have a stable income. If you don't already have a good stock of steempower, there's almost no chance of you making a living off it without catching the attention of some larger power holders. This is essentially stating that you understand why people are fake and it's ok. Where I am under the opinion that anyone doing this is just trying to be lazy in life and get free money form posting, and while it may work for 1% of us, the rest will sit not making much(definitely not a living).

I feel like a better way to use/look at this site is building up your content/audience in the beginning and just keep at it, but too many people expect to actually make a living off of this. Which will, again, work for about 1% of users.(maybe less depending on how big steemit gets/how fast it expands.)

It is kind of obnoxious to hear all these users complaining about how their content is "GREAT!" but gets no attention. Or things like, "Why don't whales like my posts." Most of the times I go through content of these users, it is just straight crap desperately trying to catch the attention of said "whales." But 90% of the "great/interesting content" I have gone through of people making these claims is/has been worthless and totally makes sense that it is not getting anywhere.

Thanks for the feedback.

Some people are freelance writers or journalists or artists, so a platform like this is a great opportunity to earn a living because it's a smaller pool than 'out there', and all I'm saying is that I understand why a person would want to just do it to make money, because that's why we work most of the time.. just to make money.

I don't mind if a person is on Steemit to make as much money as they can and don't really care about the longevity for anybody else, that's their prerogative. For my, I'd like to see more people succeed, which means Steemit needs to succeed. You see? There I go with the 'succeed' talk again, because again — it's a way to either make a living, or supplement your income. It's not the best medium for getting exposure, or sharing opinions, it's not the best editor, it's not the best for displaying images.

When my friend writes a puff piece article for some restaurant that she didn't love, and gets paid — is that being fake? Maybe. But she's working.

So I understand it, that's all.

I don't think there's anything lazy about, say @tuck-fheman, who is the most active human on Steemit! He does reasonably well for himself, and he works hard. It's work.

Nothing wrong with trying to supplement your income, in my opinion, but the platform can be different things for different people.

I have seem a lot of shitposting, but I have also seen a lot of amazing things posted by very interesting people that aren't getting any traction, and I try to highlight those when I can with the limited platform that I have. I'm not a whale, I guess I'm a dolphin, and the more of us in the middle class there are, the better.

"For my, I'd like to see more people succeed, which means Steemit needs to succeed. You see? There I go with the 'succeed' talk again, because again — it's a way to either make a living, or supplement your income"

This is a great way to voice your opinion. And I am not saying that this isn't a place where you CAN make a living. Just that it is irresponsible for most to rely on it for income, especially with shit posts. And it is a little bit annoying to hear all these people complaining about not getting attention from "whales", when you know they should because their content is exactly what the whales are looking for(or at least that what the assumption is by all these posters claiming quality posts that lack impressions.

Here's a thought, if you are the only person who is stating your posts are great or interesting, there may be a chance they're not, or that other people aren't interested in the same things as you.(not speaking to you personally, just the in general "you". I don't mean to come off abrasive).

It's blogging, it should be about you and your passions. Selling something you are not passionate about, unless you are a natural salesman, is fairly difficult.

I think it depends on your reason for blogging, because blogging is also a job. But yes, I agree that if you're not good at sales and marketing it is fairly difficult to succeed in that business.

Yes exactly, you have a better chance of selling things you are passionate about.

This is really like mine but I have to admit, youre far better writer than me. :)))))
respect.

Which post? go ahead and link it here

and this one also. https://steemit.com/steemit-help/@akiregor/making-my-content-stand-out-in-my-own-ways I just want to encourage newcomers and be patient that someday their post will be notified. :)

An excellent, positive and very helpful post. I very much like your main point that we should grow a healthy middle class which would make Whale-approval less necessary for upward mobility. I hope this evolution occurs rapidly before many are 'turned off' by the current wealth gap. Having a small percentage of folks puppeteering a large population of beggars does not make for very interesting reading.

Cheers

This is a well thought out post, and highlights many of the things I've thought about since joining recently. Everyone would love to make thousands of dollars on every post, but making anything for voting, posting, etc. is amazing and a game changer. We should be grateful for the opportunity and potential of even making anything for contributing to this growing and amazing community.

First of all, thank you for giving me all this information, I'm quite new here and didn't even know that those statistics existed. super interesting !

Let's form a facebook group of the middle class so we can all connect! I just created one, all of you guys are very welcome to join https://www.facebook.com/groups/397766613731804/

Check out the trending posts in the #steemit tag, there's loads of stuff. I think that my thoughts in this article are echoing a lot of peoples' thoughts and others have posted as much.

The thing about facebook is that it connects to your 'real' identity, most of the time, and I think most people here aren't about that life. But it might be worthwhile to create a chat channel on rocket.chat, but I feel like it will become another place to spam links... I like the idea of smaller groups of likeminded individuals coming from the same place getting together and getting to know each other. If you find me on the chat, I am using the same username.

Don't eat whale meat.

Build the Middle Class!

huzzah!

Should not what?

it was in my post there. Should not Chase Whales, create good content and let them come to you :)

Ah okay, I looked at it but I wasn't sure if you accidentally left out a word in your comment hah

Excellent whale-bait! Didn't think of this strategy. Say "whale-bait should stop!" Brilliant!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Excellent insights @jamtaylor . I would be interested in the individual interviews . I look forward using the new messaging system to be able to PM others but my attempt to register on the new steemit chat yesterday it gave me the famous "server" error. Glad to see you were able to reach out to those people.

Some of my related posts The Underbelly Of The Whale, My Steem Engine (Miner) Experience, Minnows In Whales Clothing, The Emotional Roller Coaster of Investing and The Power Of Minnows. Vote with your steem $$$.

When you do get on to the chat, I am using the same username there.

The funny thing is that the highest earning posts are still about the whales and why we should not write this kind of posts.
I suspect the next hot topic will be "why you should not write on why others should not write about the whales". :)

It is pretty funny :) It's a departure from my usual stuff, I will try not to do any more circlejerk stuff.

It is nice to see more and more people giving this sort of advice. I have urged a long term view of steemit. https://steemit.com/steemit/@iamwne/persistence-approach-to-steemit-a-practical-guide

I have a dream... that we can we can go one day without 'whale' talk.

Steemit politics makes global politics look like a joke.

Yeah it's tough, it's pretty embedded into the culture, but the culture is shifting and still very new. Will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

Yeah, this platform is incredibly volatile at the time. It's fun to see everything unravel heh.

its true. you need to be honest and realistic so that many people will like your posts. i love steemit because it gives me the freedom to tell the world what's i'm currently feeling or what's going on my mind. i have no doubt that in the near future, this site will be very popular :D

I didn't read this but I did up vote it simply for being under "circlejerk"

Edit: OK I did read it and it was actually really good. I don't mind you aiding more circle to the jerk :P

Maybe add: Actual Whales Speak or something to the title when I first read it I thought it was another of the same

very heartfelt article. following. Maybe somebody will start trending the word earlyadopter ;)

Thanks for the follow, are you using SteemStats?

I also posted something related to this because I know some people who are complaining about the reward system and as to why they can't attract whales or some sort, and your post gives me a lot of insights.

Dolphins are very sweet creatures. Probably aliens or a mix of native species and ET. ooOOOooh... Belugas are also sweet. And weird. Buty sweet.

Alien.

Excellent post! One of the best that I've read all day :)

Artist Reference: @artist1989

Weel said! Congrats for taking that interviews!

Great read! I really like your in depth attempts to understand the 'whales' and shed a little light on the perception vs the reality. I had no idea what dolphins were i thought they were actual dolphins!

Everybody want's whales to upvote , that's the first mistake, you should write about what makes you feel useful to the others. If your interested about something and you want to share it, then write about that, don't write like you are making a bait to the whales, tha's not the point of steemit. You should write a story or a post, not a bait.

Nicely said.

A nicely worded summary of steemit for the noob who just signed up (that would be me). Cheers man, perfect timing.

You should check out the trending posts in the #steemit tag, there are so many great writers talking about Steemit. But thanks for the compliment, and welcome to Steemit!

Very cool your post ... Congratulations!

Sounds pretty interesting, I thougth about people treating the earliest adopters incorrectly. Stop it, don't chase money, chase development of Steemit people!

i think that is enough posts about whales for me...
Can we instead get the same amount of tutorials how to make good posts? LOL

Interesting thoughts.

When people beg for whale's upvote:

Interesting blog

"Build the middle class!" Hahah love it!
Great article, these are the must-reads for new Steemers!

Hey, congrats on getting to the TOP 10 Trending posts on Steemit today. I just wanted to let you know that your post has been added to the Flipboard Steemit Trending Magazine for everyone to see it.

A whale is someone who overpays for something by a large margin because they can. So to state that these people are whales implies that your posts are not of any particular value, or I should say lesser value, and you are being overpaid for it. While people would like to earn money, I don't think that they want to earn their money on account that a "whale" paid them. When you don't rob your customer they come back. And repeat customers are always easier to deal with than new customers. It is wiser to state that you are being paid fair value or market value for your posts. So like the article mentions it is better to have 10 posts worth $50 each rather than 1 for $500 even if its the same amount of money. Believe it or not, money isn't everything (it's the only thing). Haha. You know what I'm saying.

Thank you jamtaylor. I have only been part of this family for a week. I find the more articles I read the more I learn. So not only do I read about the things that interests me but also on all that can help me on steemit and the trading markets. I loved your post. Thanks for your time and effort interviewing our whales and educating us minnows . 😉😉

really love fishing

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