Although some things should go without saying...
There are about three ways that I would like to go about what I am going to share. I believe that each will serve its purpose to reach the same goal, but in slightly different ways. I hope that you will understand.
Let's start with a definition.
Etiquette is a code of behavior that delineates expectations for social behavior according to contemporary conventional norms within a society, social class, or group.
For those of you who are thus far unaware, @papa-pepper is part of a social website and I have certain expectations about the behavior of others on the site. I am not alone in this. Truly people are completely free to do as they see fit, and I am in no way attempting to infringe on their freedoms. I am simply encouraging them to recall the fact that actions have consequences.
Now that we have gotten a proper definition of etiquette, let us move past this foundation.
An example
Imagine if you would for a moment that you are a business owner. Exactly what the business is does not particularly matter, but for the case of this example let us say that your business has a storefront and sells something. As is common with businesses that sell things, people interested in your wares come into the store throughout the day, examine your wares, and then perhaps purchase some of them if they like what they see.
As far as you can recall, this is the way that it has always been. Sometimes other shop owners who sell different wares stop in and purchase some of yours, and sometimes you also visit their shops and purchase goods that are different from your own. There is of course no obligation for you to purchase any of their goods, and they have no obligation to purchase yours. From your point of view, this is how running a business should work.
Then, one day, a new shop owner moves into town. Before you even notice that they have arrived, they burst into your store, shout "Nice Store! BUY MY GOODS!" and walk back out. There was no introduction, no examination of your goods, and no real interaction. Just a blunt message. You even wonder if they could have meant "Nice Store," because they were not really in your store long enough to draw a real conclusion.
Besides that, the "BUY MY GOODS" demand seemed very inappropriate and out of place. Simply put, that is just not how people should run their businesses.
The Application
When we view steemit through the mindset of our example, we see something interesting. Just like a scenario where several business owners all have the opportunity and freedom to spend some of their own money purchasing goods from other shop owners, we, as steemians have an opportunity.
When any one of us makes a post or comment here on steemit, others have the opportunity and freedom to choose to spend the time reading it, and to choose where or not to give an upvote. Since there is a financial side to both owning a business and to posting on steemit, I think that this example fits well.
Just like no business owner is going to immediately rush next door to spend their money simply because someone burst through the door and shouted the comment, "Nice Store! BUY MY GOODS!" people on steemit are not going to rush over to give upvotes to someone just because they commented "Nice Post! UPVOTE AND FOLLOW ME!"
Such is not proper etiquette.
Real, valid comments that make sense may encourage an author to see who left them and possibly support that user with a follow or some upvotes, but rude selfish comments discourage people from doing so. It is counterproductive.
When such comments come at a high enough frequency or at a short enough time period after a post is published to demonstrate that the user making the comment could not have even read the post that they are commenting on, it shows that they do not even care about the author, but just want to get upvotes from them. "Who cares about you, help me get paid" is the underlining message if we read between the lines.
I grow tired of your foolish ways.
Lately, many of us have seen the lame comments being spewed into every corner of steemit. Someone who has never, ever commented on a single one of your posts makes the comment, "I comment on your posts, but you do not comment on mine. That makes me sad. Please support me too."
Then, after you post a 10 minute vlog, another user comments, "Excellent video. I really appreciated it" thirty seconds after you post.
You make a silly post featuring a funny meme and another user stops by to comment, "Such good and important information. The world is better because you share this truth."
Yeah, suddenly your life, and your steemit experience becomes a whole lot lamer than it once was.
What can be done?
Personally, I have yet to throw a flag here on steemit, so for me downvoting the user is really not an option. Even if it was, I would hate to flag a new user who is learning the ropes.
There are also only so many, "Please don't waste your time making comments like that, people will flag you for it" comments that one can make. Therefore, I've chosen a different approach to encourage others to make real comments.
I have recently made a fun little GIF. The GIF is flashy and it catches the eye. I have been choosing one comment per post to give a FULL POWER UPVOTE to. If my vote was worth more I would decrease the percentage, but at $2 -$3 currently my 100% upvote is not what I consider to be too much.
Basically, when I make a new post, I try to see who makes a real comment on it. Then, to reward the user and to use it as an example for others, I give it an upvote at 100%. After upvoting, I'll put the GIF in a reply to their comment with a short message explaining what I am doing and why.
I figure if others see that @papa-pepper is rewarding people for making real comments, perhaps they won't waste their time making the other kind comments, although there is a high probability that some won't even read this post and will reply with "follow me I follow you," "upvote my latest post," and "follow this link to support me" comments.
We will see how it works as we move forward, but so far people seem to like it. Hopefully, a few will even get the point.
Closing thoughts
I understand that such an idea is just one small idea in the giant sea of steemit. However, I think of it as taking a good, solid step in the correct direction.
Let's all remember what behavior is proper when dealing with others here on steemit. If you are guilty of spam-linking or leaving foolish comments, I suggest to you that now is a great time to stop.
I have to give credit to @dwells for inadvertently inspiring this comment upvoting idea too. In one of the STEEM-Pocalypse Strategy Discussion posts that he posted, he mentioned wanting to get the "@papa-pepper full power comment upvote." Honestly, I had given out a few as a way to encourage proper commenting on my STEEM-Pocalypse game, but it wasn't really "a thing." I figured, if it works for the game and people are actually noticing it, why not use something like that for more of my posts?
I love this community and the people in it, and I enjoy actually interacting with you here. Hopefully you feel the same, and I look forward to our future together. Steem on!
Until next time…
Don’t waste your time online, invest it with steemit.com
"Can you please upvote, comment & resteem my post?"
WHY DO THEY DO THIS. @n@
(by the way, sweet shirt! Or hoodie? Looks cool pops! :D)
Real comment alert. Real comment alert.
Thanks @yukimaru!
Always a pleasure @papa-pepper. ^u^
At least people are now informed...
For the 352,286,728,907,182 time. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
OUCH!
Hehehe... ԅ(≖‿≖ԅ)
ha ha! now the 352,286,728,907,183th time!
genius idea! I have thought of the exact same thing, and maybe if we work together, (I copy this fantastic idea of yours), we can create real culture in here!
Go for it!
If i can only have a notification when anyone will post this gif, so that i can immediately comment a real, non-automated reply. It will be a great eyeopener for everyone. :)
X2
My Full Power Upvote Too!
Cool, thanks for helping out!
Wow a full power upvote! How generous of you lady @stellabelle. :)
Technology and social networking move forward that make people more easily interact with other people around the world, but most of them do that without understanding the etiquette or modern manner, they don't care about that, it might be the rule of etiquette is less formal than writing a letter on papper. As if they care the writings of others by leaving comments such as "nice pictures", "good post", they don't realize that they still keep their foolish.
Agreed. Well said @elfaisal.
I like the positive and literally constructive vibe this creates, versus downvoting people into oblivion. It rewards the intended behaviour, whereas the latter just tends to create a cacophony of back-and-forth justification posts that fail to create any real understanding regarding the original issue, and drains energy from all of its contributors that could have gone into creating some great content instead, which is a virus that I've watched spread across the platform as of late.
I still maintain that flagging is a necessary tool in some cases, but I'm very interested to see how this alternate approach turns out. Upvoted and re-steemed, in efforts for further adoption!
Cool, I am glad that you like my approach to this. Thanks @beckerly!
Etiquette is just a label!
[Sorry, bilingual joke]
HAHA! I like it!
Also, we miss you already. ;-(
Vincent, where have you gone? No awesome posts for 9 days now?
Yes, sorry. I have been very tired these days.
I will resume blogging tonight or tomorrow.
Also, thank you very much for your kind support of my art photography!
While I can understand the reluctance to use the flag / downvote, honestly I wish that users with a decent amount of Steem like yourself used that bad boy more often. My particular favorite is when the spammer says they have upvoted your post and ask you to follow... but they didn't even actually upvote! Just left a spam comment like some stranger bursting into your living room and ripping a fart before casually asking for some spare change and sauntering out. What a winner!
I'm sorry, the fart was incidental to my panhandling 😳💨 great comment.
LOL
i love pos @papa-pepper
I hope he doesn't know what pos is...😬
I think I was the first person to get the "Full Power Up-Vote!" I thought it was a Bot at first. LOL Because that does happen every once in a while.
What you are talking about here is what makes steemit great. For the people by the people. Thanks for encouraging me btw. Your blogs are a blast! See you in the air!
Thanks captain obvious. I always assumed you were a sea captain though😆I know I shouldn't comment on Papa Peppers comments, but he hit the nail on the head and the responses are great.
No problem, thanks for doing so!
Congratulations, I really liked your article, I hope you continue to share this kind of information.
I share it when I feel I should.
as always, you're an inspiration and guiding light for us here in the steemit community. i've always viewed etiquete as a way of recognizing and acknowledging the humanity in others, as we learned in sunday school as children - do unto others as you would have them do unto you. please and thank you cost you nothing but they pay dividends - that's my kind of economy
My kind of economy too. Thanks for that!
Hey man, your post really worked and the message has been well delivered to all I think!
I went through all comments till now, and there is no one begging for votes, follow me etc...
Bravo mate!
@progressivechef
you haven't seen my comment yet....
Hahaha! Edit : Message has been delivered to all except @stellabelle! Lol!
I'm so glad that you replied on my comment! Made my day!
Thank you
@progressivechef
Upboat is a friendly half-human, half-robot which hopes to help promote the better posts of Steemit by trying to ensure they get the recognition they deserve.
@UPBOAT looks for numerous signals before deciding on who to UPBOAT and is likely to summon our robot friends to share some robot love with you to show affection.
I'VE BEEN AT SEA FOR 4 DAYS AND HAVE GIVEN 68 UPBOATS! PLEASE HELP @UPBOAT STAY AFLOAT ON THE STEEMIAN SEAS BY DELEGATING SPARE SP OR PATCH WATER LEAKS BY UPBOATING.
Thanks!
💕
I made a post touching on this issue too a week or so ago. So frustrating when people don't even read and comment and you can tell. I love the analogy you used with the store front owner. Some people don't seem to get that when you do make a comment it needs to be relevant to the story.. And what is really sad is that steemians have to keep making posts like these to educate some new users because they are not doing any research for themselves. Those who do a little research you can tell because they are actually commenting with relevance. I hope the people that need to read this does.
I thought that the store illustration may help others understand.
See, now after reading your comment, I feel like heading over to your blog to see what you have been up to. Interesting how that works!
It is how I find most people that I have followed, some I have found in the posting feeds but many come from their comments, makes me want to check out what they post. I found your first article through a comment you made on a post I was reading. (Yes I read the comments on a post too) Can't tell you which one, you were one of the first people I followed on here.
Me too, the people that I really enjoy often I find because of their comments.
that works for me as well....I know this!
I know, right?
nice guide
asking for upvotes is not one of them ;)
See, even @millennials understand that!
Not all millennials. Most of them cry for freebies.
Lol!
( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o)
Great idea! I have also been trying to figure out the best way to approach these "nice post newbies" - I think your idea is the best I've heard cuz flagging can really ruin somebody quick on here. I just hope that more steemians realize they won't get ahead on here without the proper etiquette. It's about connecting with people and contributing to this community
I like the shopkeeper analogy.
Its good to see more people speaking out about the correct etiquette to follow.
It may be me but the last few weeks have been particularly bad with these kind of commenters.
Lots of bots appearing too with vapid , generic responses. I agree also regarding flagging although I have been close. I have had commenters flagged by other users on a post of mine as the comment was horrendously insensitive.
Good on ya for making a stand dude.
awesome post @papa-pepper i was just expecting the same post from you.
really enjoyed it. and to be honest yo are right i'm totally agreed with you.
really love it. thanks for this post.
You are so right, it seems that many who joined steemit lately don't care about content but just want to make a few easy cents by commenting. On top of that, as you mentioned, most don't even bother to get at least a glimpse of an idea what the post is about and comment unrelated stuff.
No up-vote required friend, just wanted to share that I am 100% with you on this.
Right, they don't even know what they are commenting on because they seem to pay so little attention.
Honesty is a virtue that we tend to ignore. If we can all read the entire post, as you have indicated, credit would go to those who deserve it. However, it should help those who are new to embrace etiquette and make every one here on Steemit proud of their contribution however small it may seem. I feel your point and thanks, its an eye opener for me.
I read it from start to finish :) and yes it is inconsiderate when people don't take the time to read what you are writing about or vlogging about but still expect your to 'upvote' them as well, you make a very clear point and hopefully better etiquette will prevail .... fingers crossed ! Loving the Gif
Thank you so much. We had some more rabbits born this morning, and baby piglets on Friday. The @little-peppers account will update it later.
Oh wow - gotta go check out the piglets now - !
I totally agree about having etiquette. It's a real kick in the nards when you work hard on a post and then someone makes a comment that has nothing to do with the material. I would 100% rather have one good comment than 50 of these comments with zero substance.
Please, vote my post. LOL. This good article.
There are some good bots though 😏
Like @gentlebot, @thing-2, @upboat which are basically giving away free money for insightful posts/comments.
Enjoy reading your posts.
I've quickly noticed this as we'll and i've only been on the site for two months. I had another question for you related to this. I've seen a blogger overtly plagiarize content, only changing some words to make not literally a word for word rip off. This individual doesn't resteem the content but shares it as his/her own. What is in place in the community to counter this? Like yourself, I'm not flagging. But this seems to be an effort to steal content from others. Would like to hear your thoughts.
@drstevegilbert
You should drop the link in here with a small description: https://steemit.chat/channel/steemcleaners-linkdrop
They do some awesome work to keep steem cleaner.
Thank you for the information!!!!
Thanks @papa-pepper, it's gives me great joy to know I inspired you since you have inspired me so much here on steemit. I feel like that was just a part of you coming back around full circle.
It's important as a community that governs itself that we reward the positive behavior we see from others, in order to encourage a repeat of that same behavior, so the community remains healthy. Now if we see a behaviour that is undesirable, we can't just attack it and drive it in to Oblivion, but rather we should attempt to adjust the direction of that behavior in a more positive way and I think your full power upvote gif has done just that.
Full steem ahead!
I put up a post the other day and somebody commented on it "Ignore all of the bots in your comment section, it's part of the story." And I got confused. Why are there so many bots and what story are they all a part of!? Why can't we just have nice things with good content and have conversations with people who also want the same thing in return. Bots. I don't even like that word.
I wish things were a little different too!
This post has received a 2.35 % upvote from @lovejuice thanks to: @upboat. They have officially sprayed their dank amps all over your post rewards. GOOD TIMES! Vote for Aggroed!
I had to scroll through the comments to see if you got one of "THOSE" comments. I've been getting them a lot lately and I feel the same as you do... I've even posted about it- although not quite as eloquently. When I read the title I was prepared to confess to once having et a catt! I never threw a flag here until I started getting these comments. Chapters of my stories typically take anywhere from 6-10 hours from conception to posting and to get one of those comments 10 seconds after posting was the last straw. One warning- then I throw a flag!
From a newbie perspective the advice that is given to build your following is:-
Go down the 'new' list and vote on posts that interest you and leave a comment.
Of course avoid the phase 'Please follow me, and the like'
But make a comment relevant to the post.
I know I tried to follow the rules, when making my comments. Watched a video or read a post in its entirety so my comment adds to the discussion, with the hope of getting a new follower. But sometime there is not much you can write about a beautiful photograph apart from, it's beautiful ;) lol
Or a comment just get lost in the sea of other comments and never gets seen.
I am pleased you read your comments and plan to reward your followers for leaving a good comment. I hope some newbies happen upon your posts while hunting the 'new' thread and leave you a good comment that get them the reward of your upvote or even better you following them :)
I couldn't agree more with you. I am a newbie here and have been taking my time reading posts and being choosy about those that I reply to. I probably will never red flag someone. That's not my style. I believe in positive reinforcement.
Nice post by the way :>)
Thanks @cecicastor. Welcome to the community!
@papa-pepper Might I inspire you with this thought. Would you be willing to consider creating custom "full power upvote" gifs for members of Steemit? Like yours but with the second line custom tailored to their username?
I would like to offer $5.00 SBD to have one just like yours but have the second line read something like..."@Preppers values your REAL comments and will select 5 of the best comments for a full power upvote".
I mostly resteem others, but would like to also start publishing some of my own original content. I only received a couple of these kinds of comments on my introduction post, but it was disappointing just the same to see that. After that, I began noticing how many people get these kinds of spam comments on their posts. I also find it very disheartening to see it all over the #introduceyourself tag, especially when new members put a considerable amount of effort into their posts only to be spammed by people who never even bothered to read them.
I don't think these people are inherently bad people trying to spam, they just don't understand the etiquette. I never thought that downvoting them is right either. That's sort of like cursing an immigrant who is trying to fit into our society and still hasn't learned the proper way. Shooting them down before they can even get started only crushes their aspirations and makes them feel unwanted in a place that they had such high hopes for.
I would love to see the entire community employ this carrot method to reward good behavior with positive reinforcement rather than slapping new people down with a stick.
Maybe you can start something with this by creating these custom gif's for members of the community?
I'll work on it once I'm done grinding stumps. Thanks.
Tried this for a start...
That's perfect. I'll start using that one in my own posts.
Also, I would like a second one exactly like that but have the second line read "Support the Author with your REAL comments. @Preppers will select at least one comment for a full power upvote"
I would like to offer $3 SBD for that second version. I will use it when curating posts of other authors to encourage positive community participation.
No need to send the SBD, since it is not exactly the same anyway.
Just enjoy it, use it, and STEEM on!
Thanks, already putting it to good use
very useful information Bro thank you for sharing @papa-pepper
The people on this platform continue to impress me at the most unexpected times.
Hats off to you @papa-pepper.
I am glad to hear that!
Well i got an account but its just mostly to follow an American homestead. through them I learned bout you. Although I thought Zach had mentioned that there wasn't bots here then again some dumb human could act like one i suppose.... I still have yet to introduce myself here I'm just finishing my first draft. If anyone follows me that's cool if not that's cool too. That's no biggie etiquette yeah a word we need in this world and people don't have it.... It infuriates me.. at lass i've taken too long.
I love your gif. and this post, it's the same on YouTube. I haven't had anyone do that to one of my posts yet, but I think that's because I'm a tinny fish in a big pond still.
The store owner analogy was perfect to prove your point. "NICE STORE! BUY MY GOODS!!!" It reminds me of the soup Nazi. "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"
am new here I've got 117 followers who just follow to being followedm once i publish a post i found not more 10 views am just wondering why the are those people join the community!!! to get followers then what!!!!!!!!!!i don't those kinda of folks to follow me i get mad at them i didn't ask any one to upvote me i just want to get attention and feedback is that impossible !!!!!!!!i made many comments and i found afew generous people who see my posts but the rest are too selfish !!!!!!!!! I love this community am so grateful to participate in it but what's going on till now frustrating me a bit @papa-pepper
(
)
Often, I will get 200 - 300 upvotes, with far less views, and I have over 7000 followers, so I know what you mean.
It's just the way it is mate, not sure what more to tell you.
Would be great if offical Steemit Etiquette was written down in rules that makes plagiarism, bandwith sucking trash posting spam and whale circle jerking and pool milking unwelcome :P
I agree with all of the points of your post. While reading it, I figured out what those "follow you/follow me" people are doing. They're reducing an interaction in a social media resource designed for the exchange of ideas to a transaction.
After a few weeks of just posting and interacting, I began to think that Steemit adds new meaning to the phrase, "pay attention". Steemit is the first that I've seen to attempt to directly monetize the attention economy for the user. In contrast, all of the big players are monetizing our attention for shareholder gain. In that context, the user isn't really a stakeholder.
Anyway, your post confirms what has been on my mind with this vote for vote and follow for follow business, without consideration of the ideas shared.
Thanks for sharing.
Be careful there seems like a million bots circulating around you, they are hunting whales ;-)
Most days I no longer even go into the introduce yourself because of all the bots and I share when I see someone naming them all in hopes that some kind of action is taken to clean the walls. Maybe we need a Bot spray?
To me it is so inportant when I read a reply to see someone mention something in the reply that I said in my post. I must say I really get good replies and love them. But I take hours sittting reading through a post before upvoting it and; therefore I feel they can do the same for me and mostly they really do. Thanks for sharing because there is nothing worse than follow you follow me. I just do not answer them. Thanks for all these posts you bring to us every day. Normally I feel my few cents are not worth much for you but I do not reply without an upvote.
it has gotten bad, not just for users of your magnitude, but even for us minnow's. Every post gets a spam, you can usually spot the in two ways, they will be close to being first and they usually will not upvote your post. I like your idea on 1 full upvote per post for the best and most relevant. But what happen if that comment comes in 8 hours after the post. Alot of people upvote the first few comments that come in. Maybe they dont read anymore comments after that, and maybe, just maybe that comment gets made on day 5 or 6 of the post, then you have an excellant comment going unnoticed. Sorry just thinking out loud here. I am sure you get where I am going. Awesome post and thanks for bring the much needed attention to the matter.
I pick some later comments too, but like to have one on display early. It's okay to think out loud.
Nice Post!!
I never thought about online etiquette like a store front and I really like the way you presented it. Goes along with aggroeds approach to de-escalate a situation. I also noticed and am really excited for the day I earn a full upvote for a quality comment from you. Glad you decided to make a thing :)
Side note. I'm sure you have received every variation of F4F- one I recently received that was new to me was upvoted several of your post and following you. Which wasn't true and their post was actually really informative and interesting. I didn't know what to do at that point. Reward their rudeness or just ignore them.
What do you recommend?
Call their bluff (don't let the lie slide at all) but still support and honestly comment on their post if you liked it.
It's a way to show them a better way.
What are your thoughts on that meep character?
Thank you for clearing the air on this, very enlightening. Apart from steemit every one really need to learn and apply etiquette in every day lfe. Thank you for this.
follow4follow?
individual results May Vary.
I really liked this post because you stated what needed to be said without bashing anyone over the head about it...
There are a lot of posts on here about what is expected, what is appreciated/up voted and what people hate and I think I've read most of them. I do believe that every single one of them mentions the fact that you shouldn't be asking for up votes or making up voting conditional in any way...
Its actually because of one of those other posts that I stopped up voting my own posts and started focusing more on reading other people's posts and up voting the ones I really liked so the ones I appreciated the most would get as much of my voting power as possible.
It also made me realize that following everyone is not possible, not if you want to really get to know them and what they/their posts are all about...so thank you, to you and to all the others, that took the time to write them to help us all learn the ropes. :D
Have an awesome day! :D
I agree with what you have to say. I have never flagged anyone either. I refuse to do the follow me and I'll follow you. I do admit when I first started I did the nice post or great post but then decided it was annoying. I happen to read every post I comment on. But sometimes it is hard to make adult comments when you work with 5 year olds and under. People are luck I don't comment what the children say to me. I mean who wants a comment like"Teacher, Teacher I made bubbles in the potty."
I do realize that store owners can be rude to each other and to the customers and our steemit is like our store and we are the owners. We can either be respectful or rude to each other. I try to be respectful, but sometimes it can be hard.
As usual a very good post papa, anything to stop the "follow me"comments is a good idea. Quite often I will read a good coment, then dig out what that person has done before, have a read and then press the follow button.
It may also be an aversion to following orders.
This post has been ranked within the top 25 most undervalued posts in the second half of Aug 07. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $26.15 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.
See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Aug 07 - Part II. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.
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