Isn't this just adding spam to the blockchain which witnesses like me have to pay to store? While some minnows barely have enough bandwidth, the system is handling stuff like this? Seems like a waste and can be annoying for those who get tagged.
You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
Sho bud, that's the first negative comment I have received from this contest in 8 episodes and rather unfair I feel? Last week between @drdave and myself we gave away around over 15 SBD excl his upvotes in this contest. You can ask anyone here what this means to them? As well as previous winners @em3 @penderis @drdave @mariannewest @frankabelle @fc-barcelona @miranas @public-eye @doc.hodes and a whole lot more I forget to mention. Many of which are minnows and to date not 1 Complaint literally you are the first?? We are building an amazing community here, people are loving this in their own words 'it is an adrenalin rush' I am rather disappointed at your remark to be totally honest, I give alot of money away which I cannot afford to as I too am a minnow but do it with a smile, I do, and now this? Not sure how else to handle or respond to your comment @lukestokes to be honest other than maybe get a few personal views/comments/opinions from my followers/contestents/friends? Thanks for your input all the same ;) Cheer$;)
I think my criticism was pretty tame, based on what I've seen downvoted in the past over the last year and a half. I asked a couple questions and gave my opinion. Giving my personal opinion and asking questions shouldn't be considered unfair. In a DPOS system like this, that's all we have to figure out what makes sense around here: ask questions, give opinions. There are no rulers to dictate how everyone else should behave (or at least, there isn't supposed to be). We figure it out as a community as we move along.
I wasn't suggesting those who won your contest didn't appreciate it or those who play it don't enjoy it. I was asking a larger question about the blockchain and current bandwidth limitations to get your opinion. It sounds like the value this contest brings far outweighs any appearance of noise or spam on the blockchain, from your perspective. Thank you. That's what I was hoping to have, your perspective.
If you give money away you can't afford, that may not be a good long-term plan, but that's a separate discussion.
I don't think you have to get more input as it was your input I was interested in as you're the one running the contest. If someone is giving away free money (even if does result in more noise and less signal on the blockchain, what some might call spam), I don't fault people for wanting it.
Please don't feel like I'm the police coming in to shut you down or something. I was just asking questions to get your perspective and give you some of my own. That's it. If you are confident what you are doing brings value, carry on. If you get downvoted at some point in the future by others (as I have seen in the year and a half I've been here for various schemes and such) at least you can say someone bothered to get your perspective instead of just downvoting you. If you're providing value, I'll support it.
Maybe just let your participants know if they tag people without thinking about how that may impact their reputation, they may want to think twice about participating.
I will post this again as I am not sure you read it : Thanks mate @lukestokes I appreciate that answer and I see your angle. As a relative newbie (5 months in) you clearly have a greater understanding of the bigger picture here so I don't want to act or behave like I know better because I don't, but I do just feel that if this is what brings people to Steemit and gets them talking and gets them bringing new mates to interact correspond and add value, how can it be wrong? I give back currently more than I make, this is surely what it is all about, giving/uplifting/adding value to peoples lives which I truly feel this contest does?? In only 12 hours and for a rank of only 59 on this 8th contest we already have over 450 comments 800 views, I feel this to be a major achievement and I do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused? I also would like to thank you for communicating your stance in a respectful and pleasant manner it is much appreciated and I do value your thoughts and opinions. ;)
Thanks again for clearing that up and I really do like your tone and attitude @lukestokes nice to meet, even if under 'adverse circumstances' please do be sure to pop in again and render your much appreciated and wise opinion again in future, I am off to bed, sleep well brother. Cheer$;)
I saw it, thanks.
And thank you for responding politely without getting too defensive. Those who are providing value have no reason to be defensive. I appreciate your perspective. I would hope that in the future you let people know how tagging others may annoy them and that may not be a great idea. That, I think, would be helpful for those (like the one who tagged me) who didn't really think about just using a list of names instead of tagging people who might actually enjoy being tagged and playing.
I'm all about signal over noise.
If we support noise, we'll just get a lot more noise which lowers the value here for everyone.
Protect the signal. :)
I did read through this whole convo and it seems that you all resolved things quite well. I do want to add that when I first came to this comment from @craigcryptoking 's tag I didn't read it as a friendly question but more of an attack of sorts.
I do think that many friendships develop from the bantering on this post and minnows who get basically nothing from their posting and are ready to leave again might just stay because of a win.
Also, from what I understand, the Alexa rating of Steemit is quite high and the rating does get positively influenced by lots of interaction on posts. The high Alexa rating is what attracts many bloggers to this site.
I am not a tech person at all - but if the platform has a bandwidth problem and cannot support the traffic it gets, why is there a push to get more people to come onboard? That doesn't make sense to me.
Finally, I agree that Craig is giving away a bit too much. It is not sustainable to give away more than you earn.
Thank you for your thoughtful follow up comments.
Thanks for commenting. I can be a bit to direct at times, but when I first loaded this page, all I saw were numbers and names with no interactions. I was tagged, and it looked like a wall of spam with people greedy to win a contest. I'm very happy to find many actual conversations going on around this and real relationships being built. That's fantastic.
Alexa likes interaction, yes, spam, no. If this was just a wall of numbers and names (as it was when I first saw the thread), in the long run, if replicated, could become a systemic risk. Many people are already convinced Steemit is a money-grabbing scam. It takes people asking tough questions to find what's real and what's helping that negative perception grow. Some people just flag away without asking questions first. I prefer to ask first and be pleasantly surprised if my first impression is wrong. Though, to be fair, I still think contests like this, if replicated, can be very unhealthy for the long-term health of the system. I remember when the flood of "vote up my post and I'll share rewards with you" stuff happened more than a year ago. It was almost an epidemic. It took many whales flagging all of them down before people realized that wasn't worth doing and writing quality content was a better approach.
As for a push to get more people to come onboard, you may notice Steemit, inc isn't really doing any marketing. Their Twitter and Facebook are essentially idle. They are working on hard fork 20 to improve onboarding and (hopefully) help with the bandwidth issues. It may not be as extreme of an issue as I outlined it (I haven't checked the last couple of days as I've been on vacation), but it is something to consider when dealing with spam (again, that was my first impression of the interactions here, one I'm glad to see was incorrect).I w
Thank you for your response. And your point about spam is well taken.
I do have a strong feeling that this kind of contest is not going to grow on Steemit for two reasons. Craig spends an enormous amount of time monitoring the sequence of replies and replying to all who are coming to his post.
And, as we already discussed, he spends way more than he takes in. I think very few people are willing to do that.
And thank you for fighting spam on this platform - I think we are all on the same page in this effort.
Hey at @mariannewest many thanks for this I really do appreciate you comment and support are you well my Friend?
Of course!! You spend so much of your time, money and energy to make this a fun place to be!!
I am well, thank you. But to tell you the truth, the freewriting adventure I started has grown so big that it is hard for me to keep up! But I always try to visit you and a few other of my dear friends ever so often.
Are you in danger of running out of water?
Awww I hear you .. this has got soooo big too .. sadly only the contestants appreciate it.. No we are good I am in the North of South Africa .. Pretoria Plenty here Rain sunshine its all good.. Cape Town not sooo much .. But its a government thing.. I made a video about it all .. but its short sweet to the point contraversial as f#ck and probably get me behind bars so as much as I want to share and post it. Probably should'nt ... But trust me I want to ... People need a bit of a wake up call, 'government' and i put that in inverted commas because they don't govern they control and steal.....lets leave this here, I like my freedom ... x
I know what you are saying - many of these kind of problems are....
And this was an eye opener for me...
"If you are reading this then @riverhead, and by extension steemit.chat, has been fired.
What?
The Steem blockchain is run by paid witnesses. As many know witness positions are highly coveted as pay at current prices is around $200,000 - $500,000+ per year versus around $50k - $90k for the 21st position and dropping sharply after that. There is a HUGE difference between the top 20 and backup witnesses. As @klye mentioned the other day, "These are the rockstars of witnesses".
One should be able to look at each name in the top twenty and understand what value they bring to the ecosystem versus those outside of it. "
How much do you get paid as a witness? For number 10 you are clearing 100K plus if his numbers are accurate.
So....?? Is this contest really a concern? There aren't any other better fish to fry?
Thanks a mil for your input and support @public-eye you articulated and added to what I was thinking, without me even asking you to do so I do appreciate that, Steemit to date (from what i understood and experienced) has been amazing and only positive and I know this contest brings many enormous smiles and contributes massively (which is what it is all about???) many more than a ton of other stuff considered 'Not SPAMMY'?? The way I feel, if I am contributing, making people smile and contributing positively to this community my conscience tells me I am doing something right. If you want to bill me for the 'wasted bandwidth' I will try and raise the funds and pay you personally @lukestokes because I would really love to continue running this contest and I feel everyone that plays agrees. Cheer$;)
Hahah! The blockchain pays me plenty as a witness. I wasn't trying to make this about me, I just wanted to start a conversation to see where it goes.
LMAO Well it worked, now put in an entry below and let me give you some money I don't have to give.. LOL Cheer$;)
I'm not frying any fish. I'm asking questions and giving my perspective. If contests like this continued on and on with more and more people doing them, I think eventually they would become a problem, potentially even a systemic problem. In the past, many different things were tried and some were downvoted. I've been here a year and a half to see much of it. That's why I even bother to comment. I didn't suggest anyone should stop anything. I just asked some questions and gave my perspective.
As a top witness, the blockchain does pay me very well, and I'm very thankful for it. You can review my latest witness update to see what I do with those rewards. I welcome any criticism or critique you may have of me or what I do to bring value here.
PS: I tried to address this on chat but as above its currently down. I tried to make my first post to DTube today and it keeps giving me the error : Error while submitting to the blockchain?? Any ideas ? I have tried three different browsers? Ok I am off to bed thanks again Cheer$;)
I have had my share of issues with DTube as well, unfortunately. Hopefully it will continues to improve over time.
Thanks Luke I came right, finally. This whole debacle actually turned out pretty good, surprisingly, oh and you got another follower and Witness vote ;) Cheer$;)
I tagged almost everyone I follow because it was the most efficient way to keep a list of names to use. For my part, I apologize for tagging you and won't do so again.
For people who have notifications they use, tagging them wastes their time. To me, it seems you prefer the game over the time of others. If everyone did that, we'd just have spam and notifications wouldn't be helpful anymore. I wrote this post a year ago, which may better explain my perspective.
To be clear, I'm not mad. I just asked a couple questions and gave my opinion.
Glad to hear you are not mad.
I've never participated in one of these games before today, whatever it seems to you. I get dozens of notifications every day, most of which I ignore. This feels like censorship, even if it is with a silk glove instead of a whip. Because your opinion is more valuable than mine, and let's not pretend otherwise. If bandwidth is an issue, whose fault is that?
I'm not your mom. I don't care whether or not you're mad. Crush me on Steemit, and I go back to other platforms, having lost nothing. But if you truly mean to grow this platform (and by extension the number of people using it), you as a top-20 Witness are among the people who have to overcome these obstacles. Want to trade accounts?
I think all opinions are as valuable as their content. To argue otherwise would be to support a genetic fallacy.
I'm sorry it "feels" like censorship. It is not. Your feelings on this matter are not in alignment with reality. There was no "suppression or prohibition" of anything. If people can't ask difficult questions and give strong opposing opinions without people feeling "censored" then the value of social dialogue and debate is lost. I understand power dynamics are in play based on Steem Power holdings, but no "crushing" took place here.
As a community member, I'd hope you'd care if someone you've interacted with is mad or not. Clearly others appreciated me clarifying my emotional state because that doesn't come through via text very well. I care whether or not you are mad and that doesn't make me your mom, dad, brother or sister. It makes me human with empathy and compassion.
As to your question, the fault is (currently) largely with spam and spam scams with self-upvoting. These are things we, as witnesses, should keep an eye on to protect the entire ecosystem. That which gets rewarded gets repeated and, if the motivational incentives are short-term instead of long-term, can lead to serious systemic risk for the whole blockchain over time. Steemit, inc is also working to improve bandwidth issues and witnesses are discussing if the blocksize should be increased at this time.
Mate, all said and done I think and believe you have done your 'due diligence' regarding this contest, the views and comments speak for themself, clearly this is legit and I really do wish and pray you support it . As mentioned yesterday many, many folks are partaking in this, enjoying, laughing, talking about, promoting and having a great time, don't shut us down, promote us, Life is short, friends are few, BUT when you find something extraordinary, Embrace it. That is all I ask. Cheer$;)
I appreciate your insights. I too speak (type) very bluntly regardless of who I'm addressing.
Of course we have different perspectives, because the spam comes across your (literal or figurative) desk and I don't see it other than bot spam on some posts. I knew from participation that this wasn't spam and I understand why your first reaction might have been "WTF?"
Maybe. But I have had fun and met new people by playing.
If this type of Post/contest is a problem, then there needs to be a public service announcement pinned somewhere so everyone knows.
Personally, I don't see how this post could be an issue, unless Steem is not ever planning on going mainstream. And is the haijin/nextgen fiasco over? how much blockchain has been wasted on that? Not to mention bad PR and the whole reward pool issue.
But you are a witness. So, I guess you would know better than us.
One witness does a report about 0.001 Steem Memo messages and how they use blockchain space. I commented to him twice, asking what kind of impact that actually made. No response. But hey, at least he gets to make a post about it and use that to pad his witness resume.
Well now I'm afraid to play games like this one, because 1) I want minnows to have bandwidth or they will lose interest in the platform, and 2) If I piss off a Witness, I might as well go back to Farcebook rather than sit here terrified they will flag my posts into oblivion.
I was flagged for three months straight by a massive whale (and in the last 12 hours before payout so further upvotes wouldn't help). I didn't let it get me "terrified." If you're too emotionally wrapped up in the votes here, that may not be healthy. It's not witnesses that go around flagging stuff you have to be concerned with. It's all about Steem Power stake. It's mostly just whales and usually it's to prevent spam, abuse, etc. Sometimes it's just irrational and I get pretty frustrated at that also.
As to your participating in contests where you're just spamming account names to increase your chance of winning, think about how you'd feel if you got all those notifications. See my reputation post I linked to in my reply for more on that.
I actually joined this game when I saw someone else tagged me. If the game itself hadn't interested me, I would have ignored it. Pretty simple.
If you're going to fixate on a poor choice of words to summarily evaluate my emotional state, not only are you being pretty fucking presumptuous ('cause you don't know me), it seems contrary to growing this platform. What other investment do I have in it, after one week?
It's probably not Witnesses, but you are human so I can't dismiss the possibility.
You've used words like "terrified" and "being crushed." Reading the words you're using communicates an emotional state. If that state is not accurate and you don't like how it displays your actual mental state, then please use different, more accurate words instead of calling someone "fucking presumptuous" who is simply reading the words used and interpreting them.
Way to avoid any actual point I addressed.
I didn't avoid anything. I appreciate your perspective on why the game is valuable to you and why you participated. If no one was participating, it wouldn't even be worth talking about.
That's not how any of this works. There isn't a central authority to dictate rules to everyone else. What we have are questions, perspectives, and opinions. I asked two questions and gave my opinion. I'm not mad or anything. I'm genuinely seeking perspectives and and various answers to my questions. I didn't say "This should be stopped" or anything like that.
I'm really happy to hear this contest has led to new friends and relationships. That's great!
As to the haijin/nextgen fiasco, that's a much deeper issue related to stake distribution and what people do with the Steem Power they have. There are no rulers here to force people to ask as they would prefer. I would prefer both of those people learn some non-violent communication and work out their differences as adults, but that's just my single preference among tens of thousands. I think a lot of blockchain resources are constantly wasted on many things, including that.
I don't necessarily know better than you because people have elected me as a witness. Anyone with database skills can query the public record however they like, not just witnesses.
As to the responsiveness of other witnesses, I can't speak on that either. Some provider super valuable functionality, programming, development, and more to the blockchain but don't reply or post much on Steemit. Stake holders with the most to lose recognize their value and give them their vote. I personally feel witnesses should be responsive (as I'm being here), but others don't spend their time that way.
Some people vote for me just because they like me, not because they think I provider more value than all the other witnesses. Ideally, we should all learn what creates value here and support witnesses who protect and grow that value.
Thanks mate @lukestokes I appreciate that answer and I see your angle. As a relative newbie (5 months in) you clearly have a greater understanding of the bigger picture here so I don't want to act or behave like I know better because I don't, but I do just feel that if this is what brings people to Steemit and gets them talking and gets them bringing new mates to interact correspond and add value, how can it be wrong? I give back currently more than I make, this is surely what it is all about, giving/uplifting/adding value to peoples lives which I truly feel this contest does?? In only 12 hours and for a rank of only 59 on this 8th contest we already have over 450 comments 800 views, I feel this to be a major achievement and I do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused? I also would like to thank you for communicating your stance in a respectful and pleasant manner it is much appreciated and I do value your thoughts and opinions. ;)
The comments aren't very real though, right? They are mostly just noise. That, and people getting tagged with notifications which are not relevant to them is what I don't like. Others may enjoy it though. I'm just one opinion among many.
There really are tons of real/organic comments here many more than seen on many of the other posts from folks looking for a quick freebie 'nice post' 'good post' 'nice' 'thanks' etc we have seen em all, and interestingly hardly do they ever occur here (read the all above comments ;) ). Here people really do interact and contribute Luke, and I really would love for that to continue! ;) Oh and as for the people getting tagged, not one to date has yes been angry to the contrary actually :)
Yeah, it is just awkward or strange when these REAL and BIG problems are 'plaguing' steemit. And a positive resolution (stakeholder issue or not) has not been reached in over a month... But a tiny contest is nipped as if they are causing problems.
And I feel you... I spent over a month (or two) combating spam .... but it really got tiring. Most of the offenders were gaining/cheating for pennies or up to a couple dollars. But many of the big stakeholders and over half of the witnesses (as far as I could tell) were doing nothing to contribute toward steemcleaners or other efforts against spam and 'stealing from the reward pool'.
Plagiarism, upvote harvesting(through spam comments, etc), cicrcle jerks, etc are rampant on Steemit. I still contribute to steemcleaners if something blaring comes to my attention... but no one is paying me enough to fight for Steemit....if the big stakeholders themselves don't care.
So again... kinda awkward to nip at minnows when krakkens are out in the ocean doing harm.
But I am glad you are not mad. And I appreciate that you took your time to provide a reply or three.
Who nipped the contest? I just asked questions and gave my opinion.
I delegate witness rewards to multiple projects including steemcleaners. I agree, there are many "problems" (if we choose to view it that way) on Steemit related to the imbalance of Steem Power and how some with a lot of it can effectively do whatever they want without anyone else really being able to stop them. This is one (of many?) reasons Dan has publicly stated he doesn't like about what he helped create. If there were solutions we could implement that actually make sense and improve things for everyone, we would have implemented them. Until then, hopefully we'll learn useful things from SMTs and find something we can port back to STEEM.
If you have a reasonable suggestion for killing krakkens, I'm all ears. I don't know of any easy solutions.
Hi @lukestokes...
After reading through this whole thread (twice), I have to say IMO you are one of the more involved witnesses I have encountered. You could've just down voted the whole thing into oblivion, instead you took time to lay out your concerns. Thank you for your input, knowledge, and patients in some instances. I can only speak for myself but having someone advise to the potential problems with something is much appreciated - I proxy my witness vote but you would have likely earned it here.
That being said - I don't necessarily agree with some of your assertions but as I'm sure you also know (as a witness) its not really necessary to agree with someone in order to discuss it and find a solution. (my disagreement isn't really related to this contest, it's the assertion that Steemit is decentralized "DPOS", but i'll leave that for another conversation)
I was initially brought to this contest by someone tagging me and I not only liked it enough to stay, but enough to throw a couple $ at it - I never even considered the he potential for several of the issues you raised, and I will try to work with Craig to figure out a few changes. I'm sure we can figure something out where it is more focused - maybe eliminate indiscriminate tagging of people just because they are someones followers - It is called "tag a mate" after all...
As a fellow UP alum (IUP - probably a few or 20 years before you) I say thank you again...
Thanks. :) I was UPENN class of 2001. I'd love to know more of your thoughts on DPOS.
I prefer Archimedes, and Trump but what do I know, just kidding doc...Cheer$;)
Lol kill krakkens with love ;)
Hey brother - sorry I missed this one... Been busy as hell the last week - work never ends lately...
Lekka my buddy no worries really appreciate you poppin in though .. see we hit number 1 this week? Missed you.. Next week again it shall be.. Cheer$;)