Hey everyone,
I'm testing something here...can I crowdsource people's ideas and brains to find innovative solutions to problems? With the price of SBD and Steem right now...an upvote at 100% from me is almost worth $1000 US. Seems like a good enough incentive to get people's thinking right?
This seems to be as close as it get to being able to create customize bounties using my vote. You are welcome to participate and pitch in your ideas. If I find one particularly insightful, I might very well give a generous upvote!
The Problem
Right now I'm getting frustrated visiting the #photography tag. I'm working with friends to remedy the situation but I would like to crowdsource your brain for solutions.
Here how it plays out:
#travel and #life are very popular...but they are often attached to #photography. Which diminished the quality of that tag because sometimes, it's just poor quality photo taken from a cheap cellphone.
Crowdsourcing
I have my ideas about how to remedy the situation but I want YOURS. Submit it in the comment box below and may the best idea win!
How about we finally get communities implemented? That way you can create your own tag/communities that have moderators that can get rid of all the unwanted crap.
Asking someone like steemcleaners to patrol all the tags just isn't feasible, setting up communities seems like the best way to go.
That is definitely part of the solution
I think this paltform should show what each tag can be used for . I feel like it’s difficult to stop people from using a tag because as I know , new people or even people that have been on this paltform try to use tags that are popular so they can get awareness . I feel like the first tag should show the importance of the topic/picture .
$1000 HOLY SHIT
What if articles that contained 0 images and were tagged photography were invisible in the photography display category?
Also, articles that contained images and were tagged photography would only contain the image with no accompanying text other than maybe the title.
This would create the effect of a photo album effect in the photography category.
It might also be interesting to do photography specific tags to further allow for categorization of pictures like:
Additionally, the photo category could eventually expand into some sort of ipfs based storage allowing users to store their albums online and get upvotes on specific pictures.
You make some good points here!
You can kind of get this already by using Steepshot. It's not exactly as you imagined it, but if you want a photo album type of interface, then this is a good start.
Sub-tags is also a great idea; and very easy to make happen. As long as the community agree to use this it could be done without having to upgrade the Steemit UI or the Steem blockchain, since these are essentially just alternative tags.
The subtags idea is similar to my idea but not as complicated. :-)
Yeah, that's true, but the good thing about subtags is that they can be done without any changes to anything, so just decide on some of them, use them, and they're active :)
Of course, I really do want to changes to the tag system, either from the blockchain directly or from the Steemit UI. It's not working very nicely at the moment..
I'm not sure either case would require changes to the blockchain itself. I'm going to do a garbage post to see if machine tagging works on the blockchain or if it will break.
It seems to break. lol. This is okay though. I could just merge the ideas. #tag--subtag---value. This could still provide something easy for a script to parse. and its instantly usable as you say.
I love the idea of the sub tags, like photo.familypictures... and that you have an option to specify a username. for example @rival/photo.familypictures and that you get the storyboard.. Thx
That would be great @billbutler
Yeah i do agree with you. more appropriate tags should be created for further categorizing but also having pictorials apps on steemit will make it more attractive.
Maybe attach some megapixel of a picture check before you can post, or look to the metadata of a picture and this must be filled and not older then 1 year for example...
This requires a massive change on steemit I guess. I am not a developer.. maybe this can be build by steepshot..
If you used a tag system based on machine tags like #photo:date=01-24-2018, #photo:megapixel=13, #photo:geolat=12.3456, #photo:geolong=-98.7654, #photo:cat=sunset, etc. his could be useful.
I believe I said this before...
... and tried to engage developers...
We need searching and sorting on steemit.
Do you remember being promised a "resteem" tab?
What happened is the guy got it all done, but found that the back end couldn't deliver. It basically spewed out 20 followed posts (resteemed or not)
So, it went back to the drawing board... and hasn't been heard from again.
Steemit needs sorting:
You should be able to show all of your favorite followees. (this should be a personal, or public list of accounts) Your favorite followees with your favorite tags. And then after you read all those, go to all your followees and see just the posts (not the resteems)
This is pretty close to the groups function we have heard rumor of.
All it takes is storing a list of accounts. The sharing of the accounts list would be the hard part, as we don't have anything in our current interface for it.
We should be able to go to someone's blog page and then sort by tags. Steemit really should put the 5 or 6 most used tags just under the menu bar.
These are all easy things, but the interface is a pain. Its hard to get it just right, with enough information and sorting, without becoming too cluttered.
Further, we should have default tags. Such as CN or tagalog
So you can drill down from there. (Important if you don't read english)
And like I said, I tried to engage the programmers, but... I think they are all on Github not here.
A New tag may not be a solution because It needs adoption and May be flooded again with bad quality.
But, here is an Idea:
Create an interface like steemfollowers.com, but to join and to be listed the app the user needs your approval, wich would happen after some manual check of the quality (or maybe a community vote).
Now you create a New tag related to the app.
The feed of the app would only show the posts by the approved participants that contains the newly created tag.
That way, you have a personalized filter, and the participants would also see through the filters and vote on the best photos.
It would be kind of a closed curation community.
Maybe hard to implement, but doable.
photography tag is totally bs now. so, better go for a unique tag which is related to your concept ;) @cryptoctopus
@resteemia
reteemed & upvoted & commented & followed
#thepinkpanter :-) agree!
@cryptoctopus,
We can use a specific tag for this purpose. Commonly we can use photography tag! But we can specify it like cryptoctopus-photography, likewise!
Today I started a new photography tag as tga-photography and untalented-photography!
So if we new to photography I think untalented-photography is a good idea! tga-photography is for me! If someone wish to use that tag, he/she must submit something related on my themes! Otherwise I will warn first, if he/she can't listen then flag war will begins :D
This is my idea! I think it might work well!
Cheers~
An excellent idea to improve the #photography tag and my idea is simple, that is not everyone who places the opportunity to place a high-quality photo because of the lack of expensive technology and for this I suggest adding a division to the #photography tag. For example, "favorite photo", "professional", "author's" and so on, and then let the community decide where and what photo to evaluate. Thank you @cryptoctopus
Agree with you
The only way I could imagine for this to work right now, is by creating a seperate site where a set of rules are applied before approval (if this ain't already your idea ^^). That, or wait for communities to arrive... Even if you were to change the tag, people could still upload whatever they want and the problem would eventually present itself again.
@cryptoctopus - Sir most users are using Steemit as the main app on Steem blockchain... Therefore, separate app concept will not work very well Sir... Best thing is making your own tag & monitor it closely Sir...
+W+
Yeah this is good idea tOo
Tag use needs to be intuitive or it is useless. New people come in all the time, and one day that floodgate could open. It takes weeks to months to START to catch on to all the rules and expectations about tag use already, so a more complicated answer is not a solution...
I suggest leaving "photography" as a wide open tag, then ANYONE with a photograph can use it without irritating whales or bots. Create a "prophoto" tag, or something like that, so the onus of correct tag use us upon those who are entering contests or challenges. If they have figured out how to enter, they should have mastered appropriate tag use for their entries also.
As a newbie who got jumped on for "tag spam" (on a post that garnered less than a quarter) I am ADAMANT in my stance that intuitive tag use be allowed. Having people jump in, start to have some fun, then accuse them of spam over some obscure definition of a tag that they were unaware of is a real buzzkill, and nearly had me leave the platform completely.
I touched on this in another comment on one of your previous post, but I don't think you saw it?
I see so many people creating offshoots of steemit.com that are still connected, like dtube et al, and I was thinking maybe you could do something like steemgallery.com as an offshoot where people can specifically post quality photography, drawing, painting etc. so there is a place for quality work. They could use the tag steemgallery as an example.
Perhaps something like this would minimize the lesser quality photos, but you're still dealing with people, and some just have rose colored glasses and can't see that what they saw, didn't actually translate to the photo they took.
I don't know enough about how all this works, but maybe you do and can take something from it.
Wow. Upvote worth $1000 is impressive. Good solution could be to have special tag for high quality pictures, like pro-photography or something like that.
For high quality pics, perhaps creating the tag “HQpics” or “PROphotos”
the second idea is exactly what I wanted to suggest. steemit really needs an interface for photographers. something for making albums and managing lots of tags.
it is best crowdsource solution and its a wondefull idea many of us uses all these famous tags and now no one care for use these tags for any type of post and no think this tag is well combination with our post..
i see many type of tags but no one see like as a solutions of problems tag i think a tag would be must
where we post for answer our solutions of any type and when we use this tag and ask some thing which difficult for us and we want to look solution we will make a post to use that tag and experts come on that posts and give some better answer and help us @cryptoctopus
What about the introduction of keyword search?
with this, certain topic could be easily looked for as related to a particular post
The tag section, from my perspective its really good but new users find it a little bit hard to use appropriate tag as related to the post they made.
They usually end up using popular tag which is not in any form related to their post.
Making it somewhat hard to source them appropriately
It could be differentiated with the use of new, trending and hot tab as related to reward
The tagline system is awful simply because people insist on using tags that do not apply to the area, most likely to scalp votes.
Communities should help this although that would require moderators which I am not sure is the answer.
Photography might be a bit easier to alter since it is possible to scan through the posts to see if there are any images in it. Of course, one could simply post travel pics like you alluded to and end up with the same thing.
I share your frustration when I go into the steem tagline looking for updates about steem pricing, movement, or articles about the token. Instead, it seems to be a catchall for anything posted on Steemit.
I wish I had some ideas as to a solution but I do not....other than moderating, either with people or algorithms, it is tough. And some categories could use an algorithm but one like photography, how does it know it is a just a pic posted or a true post about one's photography?
The tag is a wonderful tag that should be respected by all, I think a post should be made frequently to update users to only pictures with high quality and violation of this will attract an flag or no upvote this will help check a percentage of abuse on the tag.
To solve the topic of labels I think it's educating the STEEMIANOS have know how to use the correct label
The solution is really simple, extended tag filters that allows us to filter post by including multiple tags and excluding a tag. the good old AND, OR and NOT.
#photography NOT #travel NOT #life
Agreed that the tag photography is broken. I think the photography tag is WAY to broad. I think it should be broken down into many such as travel photography, professional photography, fashion photography and many many others.
Step 2: Then with the help of a bot we could comment on posts that use "photography" that it's too broad and is being boycotted by the whales and that whales will be giving big upvotes to people who post in the more specific tags.
Step 3 Find some benevolent whales to start upvoting in those tags.
Then hopefully the quality will move to the tags and leave the spam in the photography tag.
That's my 2 cents ; )
I am agree with you, tags should be related to the content.
I don’t know if I have a solution, but I have some thoughts about what kind of solution would work, which might or might not be helpful. I think they’re mostly implicit in what folks are suggesting, but it’s helpful to me to state it explicitly:
1. A solution should be intuitive for new users.
I’m a fairly new user, and am myself no doubt guilty of some accidental tag abuse, even as someone who’s trying to learn the community and be at pains to educate myself about Steemit best practices. I’ve been tagging posts like I would on most blogging websites—make sure you fill your five—even if some of them are less focused.
A solution should be something new users gravitate to on their own.
In other words, some degree of psychological nudge-design may be in order.
2. It should be non-coercive and non-punitive.
A decentralized system with a broad appeal doesn’t seem likely to grow and improve through more policing. Again, a path-of-least-resistance solution makes the most sense. Eventually, the police won’t be able to keep up, and without a central authority backing them, the police become just another faction—and an ill-tempered one at that.
I also think in this particular case, a punitive solution risks alienating serious artists whose medium of choice is camera-phones, or people with good equipment just starting out who are bad, but well-intentioned photographers.
3. It shouldn’t require additional development.
This is maybe wishful thinking, but again, it seems like a solution should emerge from the community. It strikes me as contrary to the ethos of blockchain to appeal to a central authority to solve the community’s problems. Even though some of my favorite solutions from the replies involve changes to the UI/structure of the site. Personally, I think the simplest development-based solution would be to restrict the number of tags per post. It doesn’t eliminate the problem, and it’s a little coercive, but it obliges users to make decisions and clarify the purpose of the post. Obviously, current users could do a version of this by choosing to restrict ourselves to two or three posts, and concentrating upvotes on posts with fewer, more concise tagging.
4. It should be able to handle some level of intentional/unintentional abuse.
This combines some of the points made above, but basically, people are going to try to abuse it, or abuse it by accident. It needs to be able to survive that behavior.
So, in light of my idealistic list of requirements...I like the idea of voluntarily limiting ourselves to fewer tags per post, and concentrating upvotes on posts with fewer tags. Obviously, there are issues with that, but it rewards purposeful posts without punishing others. Still pretty subject to abuse, I guess.
I also like the ideas that involve new, more specific tags. I just think that energy would need to be put into making those tags attractive to users.
Sorry for the giant post. Hope it’s at least a little helpful.
A simple-ish way is to separate the camera photographs from the smartphone photographs. The distinction of photography from pictures should be cleared to all, photography tags should be used if the person/author took the photograph by him/herself. Picture tag if it was downloaded or it came from the internet.
This still very vague, but hey, we all start somewhere, little by little...
babysteps.
We can't solve this in just one sitting.
Just my 2 cents. ;)
Of course there are pitfalls. For example, some answers are misleading, giving you a wrong direction. Some answers are at low quality. All those problems need to be solved by the crowdsourcing websites.
@cryptoctopus
What I learned here :
Steemit is not only about UPVOTES & Money
It is about writing..
It is about reading..
It is about knowing people and their side of the story..
It is about learning..
It is about finding a path to follow..
It is about keeping yourself motivated to write better..
It is about broadening your thinking..
It is about spending your time productively..
It is about making you think from a different perspective..
It is about writing without any expectations of UPVOTES..
I have quite a hard time believing that. I think majority of people use the platform the wrong way. However, I want to assume I'm wrong, and I'll keep trying as much as possible to understand the platform better. Thanks.
You should totally write an article about the bitrate of your IO, since your username is InputOutput, following for the hope that you do.
good post
I'm 100% agreed with the idea of @billbutler. It could be a good enhancement, and will definitely serve the community.
Sir @crptoctopus I really appreciate your positive thoughts (Although all the seniors should participate in such types of enhancements for sake of our awesome community. I know some of them are already participating). But you always come with some emerging ideas / proposal only for the sake of help towards common people.
==================RESPECT==================
Sir in my view point there should be created an system like @utopian-io. And take any random name like: Pix-travel-life. Or only for pictures you can take : pixtures.
Blog would be examined first and if it fulfills the criteria would be approved and then rewarded. Definitely you would need an team in this regard but this project could be revolutionary.
All the best dear @cryptoctopus, keep it up your good work. My 100% support is always with you.
The best and easiest solution is to create new tag for community, which is already proposed by someone.
But here I am suggesting two ideas which can be implemented with the help of bots.
For example: if I have taken good pictures during travel and want to showcase my skill of photography. I will put main tag photography then travel life fun nature etc. But if I have taken photos of low quality then I will put small write-up about my visit to perticular place and support it with pics. Then I will have my first tag travel or in some cases life then followed by other tags.
Also for better results we can use both techniques together.
I have been thinking about the same thing lately (not specifically for #photography, but tags in general), and I really believe there needs to be some changes to the tags if we want to find better content more quickly. Right now discovering new and good content is very difficult!
My proposed solution
One solution I have been thinking about is to have the community help decide the tags. Right now we can have up to five tags, and a single upvote will bump that post into trending/hot on all five tags.
What I would like to see was the ability for the author to select 5 tags just like today, and let the community suggest more tags. In addition I want to let everyone vote on the tags. Here a simple upvote/downvote system would do, completely independent from money rewards.
The system should be pretty easy to follow; just upvote the post for the tag if you think the tag fits. This could give it a small bump up the hot/trending page of only that tag. An upvote would still bump it up in the trending pages for all the tags.
If you don't think the tag fits, you could downvote it to make it go down the trending/hot ranking for that particular tag. I would also prefer if a certain amount of downvotes for a certain tag completely removed it, so it would not even show up there.
I think this could add a lot of value, and make it easier for communities to moderate certain tags by agreeing upon what should fit in this tag or not. We've been seeing some spam posts in the #norway tag lately because it's a fairly rewarding tag, and this has made it a lot more difficult for curators to find good content about Norway. With this proposed feature we could get rid of all those spam posts without spending SP to downvote the posts.
The problems
The solution is far from perfect, but I think it could be a good place to start. One problem I have in mind is that if the tag votes are independent from voting power and Steem Power, spammers and trolls could easily manipulate it to remove relevant tags, or add non-related tags. A solution could of course to have it tied with Steem Power, but then again, we have some rather unpredictable whales on this platform, so that might not really work.
This became really a really long post, so I hope some of you had time to read it. Please leave me some feedback for it so that we can work together to find a good solution for this problem!
Also, crowdsourcing problems in this manner is a great idea, @cryptoctopus! I believe we will get many potentially good solutions in the comment section here :)
Best regards from @valth
So far, I like the general trend of this post, and @demotruk’s post above. I think findings ways to simplify some version of your proposed system could be a workable solution, bearing in mind that no solution is perfect. Do you think a system where the tags function as the delivery vehicle for a curator’s entire interaction with a post (so upvoting/downvoting a post can only be done through one of the tags) could solve the problem you outlined in the second half of your post? It feels to me like it would make voting power/steem power inextricable from tags.
On the other hand, it presents a problem for posts that are difficult to categorize.
Cryptoctopus, I think the idea of crowdsourcing is underestimated, specially on such a powerful social media blockchain as SteemIt has. Needs to be better utilized. I'm applying the idea to BidBots and providing a way to bring quality posts to the top using a consilidated blog post of links of Steemians. I think we need to pursue more crowdsourcing initiatives and you should spur that on for sure! great post.
The best in my opinion would be to start your own tag. For example, under the science there are numerous posts and not all are high quality and some are even copy pasted etc. Bottom, bad quality.
Then came the SteemSTEM team and they created their own tag with their own regulations that users must follow to use the steemstem tag. And now if we want to read some quality science post we just have to visit the steemstem tag and it's almost guaranteed you'll come across great articles.
So you can do something similar too. Come up with minimum or basic quality requirements of the pictures that can be uploaded under your new tag and soon if people wanna see some quality snapshots, they can visit the tag.
Just a suggestion, how about #steemsnaps as the tag? xD xD
P.S. : Just added myself to your fanbase on steemauto!!
Some people just have a knack for finding and crafting the perfect share. The rest of us have to work a little harder. Really, great social media sharing is a skill. And like all other skills, it requires a little strategy and a lot of practice to perfect.
I think better go for a unique tag
Dear, @cryptoctopus, You raised a valid point here. It seems like tags are being misused and it should be stopped.
I like the idea of using one tag with one post. with this, people will choose the specific tag.
I thank you for this useful topic. @cryptoctopus
Plus I do not take it just steem me making money
But to educate myself and learn about many of the cultures of the world is a creative show
Exchange ideas with others
Help and support others there and many more
We are the family and the Steemt family must move forward
I want everyone to know friends and people suggesting them steemt
I want to be better than Facebook soon. :D
I think photo is better for the particular picture
Because photography comes in manner of professionality
That sometime not exist
Wow post thanks for a great idea.
detailed labels like self-photo, proof-photo amateur-photo can be opened. and can be flagged to those who use the tags irrelevantly to make it regular. @cryptoctopus
have a complete leader spirit bro👍
You are right these tags are crowded of late.
I suggest we customize and add a tag related to life, because the life tag is so wide. I will come up with one. Another is to add some tags like blog.
For now that's about it, i welcome your reply.
asdsdad
It could be partly solved by bringing some real photographers together to create a curation account - just as the scientists did with @steemstem. let's say "purephotography" - just for example, I'm sure there are more creative people out there when it comes to finding names.^^
quality photographers could be encouraged right from their introduction post to use that tag for their work in addition to #photography . That would generate a tag with less bullshit/crossover photography, just as there is less BS in #steemstem as compared to #science.
People continuosly misusing the tag for their travel/life posts could be educated not to do so by friendly telling them --> reproving them --> downvoting them & reporting them to steemcleaners for tag abuse
I think, at first people must be self aware about what certain tag is about and if their category falls in the list or not. But there are many new comers (i am new too) who just want to post their stuff on different subjects and hope for some views or upvotes hopefully because they dont have proper knowledge how it works.
#Photography -meaning simple means to capture a photo. But it doesn't tell what quality, height,width,pixel the picture should be. I think the people who are already familiar with how the tags work and how its affects the content should interact with new ones and teach them the better way of doing it so they can produce quality works in the future. If i post something ther must be someone to notify that it doesnt fit the title or the subject so that i get aware and educate myself and others too.So people helping each others is a good option in my opinion.
How about attaching weights to the placement of tags? Like the first tag is the primary tag. From the second onwards, the tags keep getting less and less important. So whenever displaying the posts under specific tags, the algorithm along with other factors would consider the placement of that specific tag and rank the post accordingly.
I think good pictures should be well evaluated, we do not evaluate some good work so we should look at this.
Yeah in steemit tag has a very importance and its a usefull to find a topics what you want to read or what you want to know ..if any one want to post some article is it good or bad or qualiry or not quality content ..that is not a matter we alwas use tag which is related to the post ...so in my opinion tags are very helpfull and usefull to find a content what we want easily...so my advice what is dont waste the time of readers by putting false newses and non scence in the blog by taging the good topics this causes good content loose the value...so be uniqe and share good and usefull content by using tags....@cryptoctopus