In this video I wanted to bring up some "curation" activity I've been noticing grow on Hive lately which I'm not in favor of.
Keep in mind that with this I'm not trying to single the one example I brought up in this video but that there are many doing similar things with potentially even worse outcomes in terms of engagement levels and signs of the content being consumed.
Either way, figured it was a good topic to make a video around it and some of my thoughts surrounding it and how I see Hive curation to work if we want to continue keeping it "proof of brain" and users being able to "mine tokens" with their contributions and effort rather than just how much stake they own and give out to certain projects.
Thanks for listening/watching.
I'd appreciate a follow on youtube if you haven't yet, and if you decide to leave a comment here it'd be nice if you could copy it over there as well! Thanks.
13:30 - it's called quid pro quo
Steem is literal garbage at the moment.
I'm attempting to brainstorm with some peeps reputation scores. How much you delegate to maximize ROI should affect you negatively, imo.
17:23 - this is the milkers you were discussing the other day
18:47 - this is still way more preferable to bidbots - that was fokd
26:01 - No worries, I'm putting that account on my downvote trail
Could use this as a timestamp for the video xD
hmm did I not say quid pro quo? :D
yeah.. it's basically what some of the Korean projects started doing on hive-engine before we split, curating with layer 1 based on shittokens
That's a tough one because I think a lot of people use "tools" like that to actually earn some rewards when they are starting out. For me the real problem shows up when they are delegating out all of their stake to get those upvotes and then they have nothing left to contribute to the system. That's kind of where the new index that @azircon has talked about in the past comes in handy.
Are you talking about Leo? It definitely is :)
Yes, for HBI.
PS. I delegate to Curangel, you, qurator and I am related to SL where I am a majority stakeholder. I have specifically requested them NOT to vote me. In fact, I have blacklisted myself, so that they (curators) can't vote me my mistake :)
respect muh dude...
I have to ask, more because I'm curious and I know you've probably thought about it already.
We know Rep score is trash-useless.
Can you imagine how a rep score that meant something would work? What metrics?
KE ratio
Try it yourself
https://beebalanced.streamlit.app/
Lower the better.
this basically says I don't sell tho...
What about how much does someone spread his/her vote?
Or... how much is someone involved in curation initiatives?
I'll give this one to you all day long. An extractor of value has no HP, for sure.
I never knew about this tool. Very cool. I looked up everyone that came to mind… I had the lowest score I could find.
Who can KO the KE of the Butt… I want to meet you 🤓
I just spent a long time entering in names, so interesting and enlightening this KE tool.
Congrats on being such a solid hivian! I have finally found a high water mark. Who can beat @etblink
Awesome! Thanks for the support! I'm pretty proud of my KE Ratio.
I can only match it. I wonder why we have different emojis, lol.
does that mean your butt is the cleanest?
Squeaky Clean, you could invite your grandma over for dinner and eat off that Butt 😉
There are some (respectful?) Hivians with 1000+ .. This is great tool to see who you dealing with.
its the opposite, the lower the number, the more belief/commitment in the ecosystem.
If someone's KE is 1000, then they are not respectable.
Eerm... ahem...
lol, nice try Mr 500 drunks. Not sure who’s KE ratio that is… but it taint yours … here is you
and I can answer you all day long, because I know all the answers :)
Already have another tool for that :)
https://hivetasks.com/@meno
There have been a lot of talks about redoing rep, but it's really difficult as there isn't valuable metrics. Votes are financially motivated and usually poorly executed, follows is a good option but would easily be abused if used, same with page views, content quality isn't really usable and subjective. Most things are easily bypassed by just making a second account. So while we have and hate Reputation, and it's been talked about being replaced many times, I don't see anything changing.
Steem UA was suppose to fix it, but it was flawed from the start as it was just a poor execution of Google Page Rank poisoned by using Witness votes as the seed.
What are your thoughts on KE?
It’s a tool like everything else. If you know what it is (a measure of how much someone has earned vs sold) it provides information. It is not conclusive though. Just because someone sold (their choice, their funds) doesn’t make them a bad person or bad user.
that's exactly my point. I respect Azircon's position on this- he's looking at it from a long-term investor's angle. But Its not enough info to "make the call" so to speak.
Never seen someone downvoting because of a high KE. Would you ban someone from your company because they didn't brush their teeth regularly? This person may have some reasons not to do it. But they still get noticed and miss some opportunities because of that.
Everyone has a way of thinking and priorities. I don’t think it’s a bad tool to use.
I agree with Marky here, just because someone sold one time or two does not make him an extractor. If they do earn much, that dent in KE will stay for a long time.
Again it's a simple tool, it's easy to understand. It gives you a quick measure of a behavior. Someone with KE = 1 and KE = 1000 are certainly different and that is what I am after. It is not a labeling tool.
I personally judge reputation exactly the same way as I do with people offline - their behaviour and interactions with others and me over time. I don't pay a lot of attention to the reputation number next to someone's account name. That's a starting place, but really only tells you that they've posted a lot, they've been voted a lot and, as other commenters have said, there are a range of motivations about why people vote for them. Conversely, a low reputation on an older account might only tell you they've fallen out with someone - or someone has fallen out with them.
There are tools you can use to help inform your judgement nd check a new-to-you account, but I would be much more keen to encourage accounts to grow relationships online slowly and with care.
I guess where I'm going with this is the following abstract idea:
"Imagine we had a reputation score that reflected the right behaviors. A fitting evolution of hivebuzz if you (gamification). Simple to understand, maybe difficult to implement (to be expected)- setting the tone for a culture of a kind."
I understand.
not totally, it has it uses, but not its original design. I use it in a variety of plots. You can look up my posts.
could you drop me a link on your post about this? here in a week or so we are going to have @arcange in the hive thrive show, and I want to suggest implementation of new badges based on more useful metrics.
https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@azircon/governing-dynamics-20
KE was first defined here
https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@azircon/governing-dynamics-20
This is awesome stuff... I think implementing a new score displayed next to our handles is a lot easier than I thought.
Listen, I tagged you under a comment made by Basil. (I'm not tagging you for upvotes, I promise) I would love your input on his idea. I think it's great.
Dunno about Leo, it didn't seem as guaranteed as the others there, but as I mention I realize there's autovotes/votetrading that kind of do the same thing and up to a certain degree you gotta start treating those the same way as this.
don't know?
That mark means he pays for leo premium :)
Also a meme to help you. Not created by me!! So I am not going to take credit for it
I may have got the wrong accountI do have the wrong account.but I believe this account is doing exactly what it said it would with a leo premium account by providing exactly this type of service.This looks like a community account.a perfect 5/7 meme
Yeah okay, I thought they voted premium users threads "extra" and not posts - not that the other alternative is accepted in my book either. I just mean leo does seem to at least have curators behind the votes where as many of the others seem to just be running through hive.vote/ bots that determine receivers delegation to them or token holdings.
As you say, it's as if splinterlands would just auto vote whoever holds the most SPS or delegates to them instead of the content/general value user may be providing to hive/splinterlands.
Having a premium account provides higher probability that your account will receive an upvote.
It is a long video but you kind of nailed something I have been noticing / suspecting for a while now.
very few people actually organically read ones posts.
and even fewer bother to leave meaningful related comments.
I attribute it to both our modern day attention span (shorter every day..) and the culture of flicking through endless visual content (Instagram like).
it is sad but it is happening.
thank you for bringing such issues up.
like I said before, often your content is over my technical level, but you manage to transmit the message 🙏
Thanks for that video and I think you have a good point there.
If your part of such systems, you can just produce postings and can be sure to get your upvotes. Other users, not part of this system, don't get these upvotes and so the rewardpool is drained to a few users. I don't think this is the purpose of the voting system.
exactly!
100%!
delegating in exchange for votes = self vote
I saw my account in your video because I often join freecompliment's weekly art contest...
But regarding the issue, I understand what you mean. It's an advantage for users who have enough HP to delegate to those accounts, and it becomes a cycle that could create unbalance in the platform.
I still believe it's better to have real engagement in the platform, though.
I mostly just make content I like and sometimes I join contests for extra rewards and to meet more people on the platform.
Yeah as I said a few times in the video I wasn't trying to single out this one particular user, there's many doing it in way worse ways possibly. Your username popped out as one of the few real users commenting on his posts as there was a lot of bot activity inflating the numbers from the outside.
I get your point and yeah, that's not really fair... As it's decentralized you can't really force people to act like with common sense, and most of us here can't do much, the only way would be big stake holders to equalize abusive rewards explaining why
I will not pretend to be an expert on the subject, but certainly there are irregular elements in which the intentionality does not seem to be positive, although it is true that this is a free ecosystem I think that above all things what should really be valued is the effort of the user regardless of the role he/she has.
The rewards we get here come from individual effort connected to the recognition we receive from other users and different projects. Therefore, what we get is ours and we have the right to do whatever we want (no rules here, I think). This is called freedom (and it is not something negotiable).
However, these rewards come from a plural space, where everyone needs everyone else (no exceptions), so... All users should have the minimum common sense to keep a good part of their own HIVE POWER to themselves so they can help the ecosystem itself using their own judgment before voting.
I believe liquidating the rewards as the Posh system is just genius and I felt the value when I received some rewards. It made my engagement feel even more valuable than before. Just love the posh initiative
Interesting points. But imo, KE should also be considered by curators especially curator accounts.
What people do with their author rewards isn't my main concern, as long as they're putting in effort to earn them - that's a bigger issue right now I'm seeing being abused.
Its a interesting topic and I dont know really were I stand. E.g how does Actifit fit in this? Everytime I make a report I get a upvote from them, but the percentage is based upon several metrics.
I saw an other interesting thing brought up by @curamax the other day about self downvoting. So it seems these post is starting to spark diskussion about curation and how we want it to work. After all Hive is for us all, so its good to get as many perspective as possible.
I have been gone for a long time. i opened the blog and the first article i read was yours again. i admire you. you continue to work hard for years. by is inspiring for me. will it make me come back again? @acidyo
Hope so!
Why have you been downvoted by hivewatchers?
I always keep my Engagement first on the hive platform, because its also a way to contribute to the platform while building up my acct. however the system is gamed just for their self benefit.
in 6:08 you metioned value, which is one of the important factor people should consider when contribution to Hive. giving value to hive and getting value in return
!PIZZA
$PIZZA slices delivered:
(1/10) @danzocal tipped @acidyo
I've sort of got the same feeling lately too, but as I've always been a rather discrete person on here who better focuses on her content, I thought I'd keep doing the same after 7+ years since I've been on the chain lol
There's some good discussion here about the delegation projects, but I also think that, whether intentional or not, your assessment of how they can be used is not fully realized. Additionally, I think that your cursory glance at my account led to a very misleading perspective that truly made me look bad and risks putting a dent into the reputation (not talking about score here!) that I've tried to build, and is not at all representative of how I use Hive.
I wrote out a post with my perspective.