Hey everyone, I wanted to write a short and clear explanation of how things work now since the EIP, mainly to have a post to link to those wondering and complaining about downvotes on their bid botted posts. After drawing this on mspaint real quick I realized that I suck at infographics so will just attempt to write under it as clear as I can how it affects everyone involved with the curve the increased curation rewards and why we need to not allow profitable bid bot votes if we want honest curation and content discovery to work on Steem.
Bear with me.
Curation instead of posting
Alright, so let's assume for a minute that with 50/50 post and curation rewards most accounts are now incentivized to properly curate instead of self-vote low effort posts to reach the ROI they used to have. This is assuming they aren't actively vote-trading which was similar to delegating to a bid bot or self-voting 10x per day pre-EIP.
We have 10 daily votes so pushing out a few low effort posts daily and those not getting much more votes than your own is now not worth it. Curation sniping (voting on popular posts by front-running other votes at 3-4 minutes) even though it's the lesser evil is something that many do and over time is a self-correcting process when the front-running reaches it's limits and people voting after either stop or you reach a point where you have to vote so early that the curation rewards are just not that good anymore than voting on most other posts instead. Checking tools like steemworld.org that shows upcoming curation rewards and their efficiency (return based on steempower+voting strength) you will find out that by doing curation sniping you can earn better returns that pushing out a few posts that not many will reward, this again, changes if you are actively votetrading in voting rings which undermines the EIP, content discovery and gives you an unfair advantage of visibility no matter the content, more about that later.
Buying votes vs curation
Now about the important part and to address all of you wondering why you are getting downvoted on your posts that you boost up by purchasing bid bots. Although a lot of steempower has been undelegated from bid bots there is still a lot that's left there passively/unchecked/unaware of the changes.
So let's assume for simplicity that there is only 10 million steem power in bid bots and 10 million steem power in honest curation and that the rewardpool gives out rewards to those 20 million combined steem power daily only.
Bid bots main drive over the years has been that they sell votes for promotion/advertisement. They used to sell votes in bidding windows and still do if you look at steembottracker.com, the difference is that if enough people wanted to buy votes withing these windows it would end up costing them. Not much but they would not end up making a profit either way and that would be successful advertisement, purchasing advertisement is not supposed to make you a ROI on top of the content you advertise, that is completely unsustainable but has occurred for years on Steem.
Now that there are not that many eyes on Steem and especially with free downvotes there are not many using bid bots for actual promotion. Meaning to purchase the bids early so they get a lot of attention on hot and trending on steemit.com, they don't do this because they know they will get downvoted for having purchased that spot. A very low amount of accounts do this, one example lately is @dtube who wanted to advertise their token sale and to avoid getting downvotes they sacrificed their post rewards which does not take rewards from every other author on the platform. This was also a successful advertisement and something the bid bots are going to have to strive and market themselves to to get.
The wrong way to use bid bots is to only use them to gain a profit from the vote. Bid bots are still selling votes for a profit, why? Well because they still make much higher returns than just curating.
Let's look at honest curators, if they do a good job curating daily with their 10 posts they can hit an APR of 15% approximately. They've either used their own voting power to vote on posts that the majority of other stakeholders agreed deserved the votes and voted after, it didn't receive a lot of free downvotes thus didn't reduce the curation rewards and at the same time content discovery and rewarding valuable content worked in this scenario.
For delegators delegating to bid bots though, they received a bid for their vote, say they received 100 steem to give out a 100% upvote on a post. That post now has a pending payout of 220-250 Steem (because they are giving out profitable votes) if this post is not downvoted, the buyer will earn 110-125 steem on their 100 steem bid, not only that but the bid bot will receive curation rewards on top of the 100 steem. This means that the delegators delegating to the bid bots will receive part of the curation rewards and part of the bid which will outperform honest curation.
The reason bid bot owners don't decrease the ROI of bids is because they want this, most of them they take a cut on each bid and curation rewards. In most cases they don't even care if the posts got downvoted or not because they still made their % of the bid but of course they want to keep their customers coming. If the customers don't keep on coming their voting power will hit 100% and they will be forced to "curate".
So users purchasing bid votes will enable them to continue their services, they will not be looking into joining the EIP and attempting to curate instead, there will be no interest from investors to delegate to curation projects like @curangel or @ocdb instead which give returns on curation rewards if they can earn a higher percentage from bid bots who receive both bids and curation rewards.
Future outlook
Many bid bot owners have thankfully understood what this is about and have either switched to curation or plan on doing so and only sell nonprofitable votes that are only meant for promotion. I have also let many of them know that I personally have nothing against them selling votes for promotion, but it has to be for promotion's sake. Them being unprofitable and voted on early for the attention they need as advertisers, then let the community know if they want to downvoted it on top of them being nonprofitable based on the content or what they are advertising. This is the future where I can see promotional bid bots co-existing with honest curation.
Of course all of this can also be easily made worthless if Steemit.com decided to remove trending or the current trending and how it works as many would then not feel the need to promote their posts in the first place or would go back to using the promoted feature steem has on the blockchain level, by sending steem/sbd to @null and being featured on the promoted tab.
I realize there are some people who feel the downvotes are unfair but most of them seem to not understand that them buying profitable votes and beating the curve tax is unfair to the rest of users who are not purchasing votes. In general from what I've seen most bid bot votes that we have been downvoting have been for the sole purpose of receiving a profitable vote and ending up with a profit as the content has been questionable at best and almost always a couple days late, meaning it was never meant for promotion/advertisement.
We also understand that it's hard for certain bid bot owners to let go of the ROI they were earning, even though with the increased curation rewards and who knows how much they are keeping from that or returning to delegators you'd think they would be okay with the change but some keep fighting and justifying that promotion needs to exist but don't want to adjust to making it cost the buyer from the beginning. They say that downvotes should be used to make it cost the buyer but I'm under the impression that they should cost from the beginning because there is plenty of downvotes to still be used on voting rings and other shady voting/value extracting activity that we could use them on once we are done with these bid votes. If anything they can always be used on disagreement of rewards and normalizing them. Every downvote brings back those rewards to the rewardpool which in turn go back to everyone else earning that week and you know how the old saying goes, if you aren't asking someone why they are upvoting your posts then you also shouldn't be asking them constantly why they are downvoting them.
Now of course there is also a lot of retaliation and abuse to the free downvotes and I am hoping we will have some solutions to that in the near future as well. It's not easy to run a decentralized platform and make it as fair as possible but we've learned that not having any downvotes is just a race to the bottom cause those in power and in position don't seem to care much about the value of their investments as long as they can continuously extract value from new investors and speculators coming into steem. They ma as well have given up on their current SP from ever being able to sell it at for anything and have either already made a huge return or just don't care what happens to the ecosystem anymore and will continue to extract whatever they can. That's why we've needed these downvotes and we've needed them a long time ago. Let's try to make the most out of them and use them well for the future of our currency and to make Steem as unique as possible from other dpos/pos coins the way it was meant to be.
Feel free to discuss in the comments what you think about the EIP, bid bot votes nowadays and how they can co-exist in the future and maybe the best way forward.
I'm hoping this post will be able to be used when explaining downvotes given to bid vote purchasers who aren't using them for promotion but mainly to benefit of the profitability.
Thanks for reading!
PS. If someone would like to make an easier infographic post explaining how the effect of bid bot votes and extraction from the rewardpool compared to honest curation, etc. I'll gladly reward you with a vote and resteem if you are up for it and managed to understand what I'm talking about in this post. :P
Resteemed as well.
I'm sure I will write a few posts that don't get the attention that i feel they deserve, which is why I would used OCDB to at least mentally boost the rewards, but on the posts I do get manual curration (which has been 100% of them so far) I feel even better about the posts I make and get to save the Steem from buying votes.
Not everyone is going to notice the difference at first, but I feel growing an account on Steem has never been easier because there is so much manual curation going on right now and so much activity breaking up the high powered voting circles.
To me, there has never been a better time to bring your content to Steem as far as visibility and rewards go.
I think the user base is also dropping which I think will help and is helping the precious rewards pool.
https://steemit.com/ocd/@mysearchisover/pywe5k
#censorship
@steemcleaners @ocd @ocdb #rewardpoolrape
https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@boosta/pytjyp
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Hmmm
@steemcleaners @ocd @ocdb #rewardpoolrape
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Adam, chill out. Go take a walk, Michigan has plenty of stuff to see.
Have you ever been to Flint?
I don't do drugs though lol and only support medical marijauna usage although I do support legalization.
FYI this place does look "pretty nice". Have you been there?
https://www.rubencress.nl/product/palais-garnier-i-by-ruben-cress/
Although the art was good enough to get me to search for the video I thought the video was extremely impressive.
#steemfest2021? I have never travelled overseas but would consider it. Our up north scenery is pretty nice and we do have a waterfall and stuff but If you are ever in Flint we do have some entertainment. :)
Do you sell internationally?
Have you been to Michigan or the USA?
Feel free to contact me if you were able to find my contact information. :) Or I could shoot you an email if you wanted. I think I can also call internationally.
FYI I did go talk a walk. lol
Why Flint if I can visit Columbiaville? Feel free to contact me on Discord. For business inquiries, please use mail.
Are you a psychic or genius? I am not trolling. I am outside waiting on Consumer's to check on my natural gas leak. I did smell it when I came inside from the walk. I think tomorrow I will be ok but yeah I think I did get poisoned. Can I call you? If not I will try and contact you on Discord. Thank you very very much for your possibily life saving suggestion although I think I was planning on a walk. I think you did make me walk an extra block maybe. lol
I think I need a 4 digit code for discord.
You can find me at the PALnet Discord server.
Some people never seem to get it. 'I should get paid for my work so I buy votes', 'Flaggers are nazis' etc. I have to give up on arguing the point with some of them, but I will keep on downvoting where I see it as necessary even if they retaliate.
For the most part he self upvoted his stuff, at least until the hardfolk came along and made that useless for the amount of sp he held. I find it totally ironic that people who cheated to gain are now calling out other cheaters. I've read some of your stuff, in comparison to the stuff he's been writing the last couple days shockingly is of much more quality and value to stuff you write. I guess you can say he was a diamond in the rough, in case you don't know what that means: A person or thing with exceptional qualities or characteristics that cannot be seen from the surface....then ask yourselves why that may have been, how did this platform fail to bring such a talent into the fold? Maybe by leading by the wrong examples? That was shocking even to me as a follower of his for quite some time. Like I said above maybe the answer isn't in condemning an individual as finally recognizing their worth and offering to follow and upvote if they stop using bidbots and continue to write so cohesively. It's pretty evident here that he can hold his own, engages constructively, has empathy to others feelings and possesses a great sense of humor. You should be grabbing a hold of this one.
Nice comment. I might try and send a bot but yeah. #poorFrank lol I think bots helped me earn Steem and delegations cost me some Steem but it's nice having delegations.
This has never been about the quality of his writing. We do need good creators and I have always admitted that I am just posting for fun.
You say he engages constructively, but he has been insulting and threatening some of the people who have done most for Steem whilst he has been mostly just out for his own gain. Playing the bots for profit is not good for Steem.
He has accused me of driving users away, which shows he does not know me at all. I am not responding to him any more.
Quite frankly some of those people deserve it. A lot of those individuals cheated their way to the top, it's plain and simply as the nose on your face. It doesn't matter that they didn't get there using bidbots, upvoting one's self has always been against the rules of the platform and so has using alt accounts. The platform basically has been one that serviced self centered interest for greed no matter what avenue they took to get there. When you have a system that is primarily like that it doesn't leave room for a lot of growth for the new accounts. Believe me if I thought what he was getting for his post was outrageous I wouldn't have chose to follow him...but for the most part most his stuff was rewards under a buck to a high of maybe once in awhile using a bot six, seven dollars...which I'll admit depending upon what he presented may have been excessive for that amount even, but like I said that wasn't the norm for him. His inclination to move towards more bidbot use was a direct result of the hardfolk and the impact it had on small sp holders. Without support from the community who are all engulfed on the larger accounts I really don't know what you would otherwise expected people like him to do to survive on here. He's really a compassionate individual with a great sense of humor who surprisingly turn out to be quite intellectual and knowledgeable on the markets. Maybe if you extend an olive branch you could move forward in a more positive manner as I think if given some recognition he'd be a benefit to the platform.
I'm sure he is smart, but his attitude is very different to mine. I do not want to drive him away. He ought to realise that the changes are more about getting real engagement and the mood has turned against the bots. It is up to him to decide how he wants to proceed.
Here let me fix that for you...
He ought to realize the changes are about forming tribes where moderators monitor the post they'd never read otherwise to make an appearance the mood has turned against bots and towards circle jerk upvoting. It'll be up to him now to decide being forced feed the stuff he will read then proceed in the ritual of upvoting. After all he helped pay for it with a hefty hit on his rewards.
I like the bots and I think some others and the investors do as well.
I think bots should be an option for people to try and get their work noticed and perhaps even earn a positive ROI while providing investors with a nice and easy passive income option.
There has never been 1 million users on Steem.
How many real accounts do you guys estimate? There's like 1.2 million official accounts right?
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I would say that all up, between 50-150k real ones. There are people with thousands of accounts each, some like tard/dart have something like 10,000 accounts.
Wow!!!
I think we should have 1,000,000 real ones right now but that is my opnion. It's unfortunate the we are clearly very far from that. :(
You'd think with all the vote buying over the last 2+ years this place would have 100 million accounts, wouldn't you?
25000 i counted for him when we hit his main ring.
Adds a bit to the churn rate
I do think you should get paid for your work of helping to get 1 million or more people off the Steem blockchain and your harassment and unwarranted flags of me.
Hopefully someday I can get you paid.
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I totally get that bit of being bad at infographics. That actually made me laugh for a while thinking about my own situation with it. I am never the one to receive many upvotes and therefore downvotes in relation I could say :)
Never been using bots too unless the times I tested those.
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I would like to see a weekly acidyo infographic post :)
I think that for many bot owners, letting go of the massive rewards they were taking has been hard, but for those that realize it needs to happen for the betterment and future price, it is okay. I am hoping that better curation will distribute and the 2.5 DVs can then be used to break some of these circles, especially the ones that are retaliating against smaller users who downvote them.
Investors are now getting lower ROI's.
I respect the hustle, you have to get the word out on this SteemLeo thing, haha, but you're starting to seem a little spammy mate.
Just a bit?
He's like one of those MAGA T-Shirt sellers that keep tagging on to Donald Trump's tweets.
USA! USA! USA!
Sorry had to do it. ;) lol
Thanks for the feedback. I did modify my comment.
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Thanks for the respect. I change my comment. Please remove the downvote if you haven't already.
I have been VERY spammy trying to defend myself from the downvotes but acidyo keeps nailing me over and over and over and over and over and over again. :( lol
I guess "maybe" I should try and find a few more that are probably buried somewhere. I've gotten tons of downvotes particularly by acidyo and maybe one or two of the flags could have been for that but I dunno. He REALLY seems to like downvoting people and not just me so it does kinda remind me of something I saw on TV.
Stop buying votes. He has made his position VERY clear.
The way you have spammed this post made me go over to your content and I am considering flagging you too, if that makes you feel better. :)
He seems to be receptive to input.
This is great, but you are right, the holdouts are too dense to understand.
I downvote, but I'm still careful about who I downvote because I don't want to be distracted with a war.
I think Ill just keep doing what I do which is blog and keep up to date and try to set an example.
People had three years to build their reputation and promote the hell out of their posts with low risk.
I want to make an infographic or a meme. It's gonna be ghetto or disturbing/nsfw or ½/½.
Your post was really good and now you have all your thoughts out there.
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Since a few people have asked me about this issue and why ocdb downvoted their posts, I guess I will need to resteem this :P
I can just say that I have probably never received as much (at least measured in steem) honest curation like I have received on my last two posts. Of course I have a certain amount of visibility anyways, however I still think curation has improved a lot in the last weeks. Let's hope this keeps getting even better and isn't just a short term phenomenon.
Hiking https://steemit.com/travel/@theaustrianguy/hiking-in-the-dolomites-between-paradise-and-world-war-i-part-2
Steem monsters https://steemit.com/steemmonsters/@theaustrianguy/my-kind-of-anger-management
No offense but out of curiosity do you honestly think your posts are like 10 times better than mine that can actually lose money thanks to @OCDB OCD?
https://www.steemleo.com/@mysearchisover
You support centralized content control?
You support centralized "mangement"/elimination of promotions on Steemit.
Do you even know who the curators are? I would like to know who is running things now.
@steemcleaners @ocd @ocdb #rewardpoolrape
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I think your posts are quite useless personally. I have only skipped through a few of them now, but they don't offer me much that I could use for much of anything at all.
Edit: others might find them awesome like you do too though.
I've been a follower of yours for quite some time and I respect you as a writer. Quite frankly though I don't go through all your post as they also don't offer me much that I could use for much of anything at all.
Life is about diversity and enjoying all aspects of that. If everyone ran around with a stiff upper lips and their noses stuck up in the air just how much fun would that be?
That's what I enjoy about the platform, the ability to converse with all walks of life on whatever level that may be without condemning them. Taking each person for their own, respecting each individual for who they are and some even for their ability to try even when the quality isn't there. Maybe that comes easy for me as a mother of a unspecified learning disability child but he came out a whole lot better in this life and his ability to communicate when I reiterated many times over that trying is better than not trying and not to be consumed with what people thought if it wasn't perfect.
Not to sound offensive, as stated I respect you for your ability to write, the gift that has been afforded to you in life isn't necessarily afforded to everyone but your continued high fluent snobbery of those less fortunate is getting tiresome, is offensive and most of all an insult to those who support every aspect of your life on a daily basis.
If everyone in this world was meant or could achieve the highest of successes offered in this world just who'd clean the bathrooms you use on your travels?, who'd be there to check you in at the train station?, who'd be there to serve you food and drinks?, who'd show you your seat at a convention?, who'd make your bed in the motel room and replenish your towels? Your whole life would turn upside down without the many people you feel adequate insulting everyday because they simply can't write like you. Maybe it's because you lack a sense of compassion, short on a sense of humor or are just plain indifferent to others it does not mean that the rest of us are the same as you.
I am pretty sure I have seen you condemn quite a few in various ways.
You have no idea where I have come from, what I have experienced, nor what I have done in my life. But of course, as long as you feel that you know, that is all that matters right?
You are confusing debating of issues with condemnation. There are times you cannot debate an issue without a comparison. It's a force of hand when faced with comparing apples to oranges. That doesn't necessarily equate to a continual call out against what one considers quality, something you consistently do.
Likewise. Right back at you on that one.
Because I have my stake and I use it on what I see is quality or not. As I mentioned to this person in the EDIT, was that others might find his content fabulous, but it appears not many do.
This is meaningless considering that you believe and I quote:
Laughable.
Again... laughable.
But you do you.
#makeablogpost lol
mysearchisover for use of my downvotes! :)
:)
Did you remove some or all? I modified some of my comments to make them even better. :)
🤪¯_(ツ)_/¯
Was that from an old post before I modified it? lol
Yes, I think my recent hiking posts are 10 times better than something like this: https://steemit.com/leo/@mysearchisover/15023-17698-0-17898-sold-out-smart-trading-strength-no-losses-investment-steemit-death-s-s-rhsc-20-635
No, I don't think the post about the Steemmonsters card is 10 time better 😅
No, i don't support centralized control, however I support the Dpos mode we have here.
Yes, I know the people who run/use ocdb, some of them I have met in person last year in Krakow.
Ok OK thank you for the feedback.
I guess I can see where you're coming from but I think my posts are more important since they could have an impact on the entire Steem ecosystem.
I did upvote your post 100% and I do really like the first pic.
"All pictures in this post have been taken by me or my friends with our smartphones"
Wow! What kind of smartphone took the first pic?
I was initially biased against you because the OCDB seems to kind of upvote a lot of fluffy posts that might be about half as good as you.
I'm more into posts like this although it sucks a lot that I got flagged for what feels like the millionth fricken time.
I did have to comment on freiheit50's comment. Hopefully he is bilingual but he can probably figure it out even if he is not. lol
Maybe you should be one of the curators?
Andd, text wall :P
I don't think anyone predicted the animosity towards 'promoted' posts, and it's cool that some accounts still using them declining rewards.
What do you think about setting beneficiaries to an account which then gives a vote?
Like the account would check the beneficiaries before giving you an upvote and ROI based on it? Sounds like a good idea. Bid bots need to adjust their ways of upvoting as well, seems unproductive to expect others to constantly downvote them down from ROI and get a lot of hate when instead they could just make them unprofitable to begin with which then won't need as much downvotes and at the same time would save them more voting power to use for curation...
Yeah it is. But where would the profit go? It would be nice to see a % nulled or go to steem.dao
Answered Taraz re: first point. So it's like buying the vote 7 days ahead, but no funds are sent. hmmm.
I think he means where the beneficiaries are set to the bot so that the bot votes on the post and gets the curation + the payout. It is a proxy vote buy.
Yep. The reason I asked, check out sct.krwp :)
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This post has been included in the latest edition of The Steem News - a compilation of the key news stories on the Steem blockchain.
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I don't mind the retaliation factor, a tit-for-tat down vote saga is good for drama, some times the he-said she-said if fun to view. EIP is/was supposed to be not only about economic improvement but also about making Stem Token a more valuable asset.
All the 15 SP down vote accounts are not good for the Steem Token. @steem account enabling them to exist does not present the Steem Token in a good light. Any account that has 1 post, and a history of no up vote, no comments, only down votes need to have the delegation removed. This would limit them to the two free downvotes, and maybe 4 other down votes verses being able to do 300+ down votes a week.
Do we really present a good investment look for new investors when they come and see a sea of red votes.
Yeah I agree those should be undelegated ASAP, can't wait for RC delegations to come into effect hopefully with the next HF which will make this obsolete as well.
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There is nothing that can be done about the 15 SP Accounts that do nothing other than down vote. They have no content to down vote, steemcleaners has nothing they can do about it, the only one that can do something about it is @steem.
For accounts created solely for the purpose of down voting other accounts there is nothing that can be done about them either. If an account goes mute and then 8 days later decide to do nothing but down vote there is little that can be done about it.
The anti-abuse accounts are able to help with the accounts that are activity posting or commenting, if there is no post, no comment no response to stop the actions they are doing, then there is little that can be done.
The removal of the delegated SP from this type of account is the only thing that will slow the actions down. If you believe these accounts are harmless, just look at some of the comments that have been left on the one and only post those accounts have. They do have an effect on people, especially on the new users to steem block chain. Trust me it is not a good effect on the new users either, all they know is some asshole down voted them and there is no one to turn to for help, that is the reality of those 15 SP accounts actions on people.
Those new users do not have much more SP than those down voting 15 SP accounts. Any one that believes they cause no harm are just not looking at the harm that has been done because they may get cold feet about Steem Token. Retention is a problem on the Steem Block Chain, there has been ample post about retention and keeping people on the Steem Block Chain,
They can lose their delegation and not be able to vote as much. Steemit Inc is helping them spam.
At some point, imo, we will need access to who is selling, and crab bucket back those rewards, if we want the price to rise, by our own hands.
It is perfectly ok to sell for legitimate reasons, but those just stripping us of rewards should be outed so that the community can decide if they want those rewards back.
From the beginning the attitude here has been to hide certain numbers, that must change, if we are to evolve to the next level.
It would be great if we could get this report duplicated, too.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@bitgeek/payout-stats-report-for-2nd-november-2017--part-i
It will give hope to the minnows to know that things are working.
The wealth is spreading out.
What a crock of shit when ppl like @theycallmedan have personal vendettas against accredited authors your mission statement becomes a CROCK OF BULLSHIT
Ya @thejohalfiles gonna get that opinion too moron be careful what tress you ruffle
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So you're saying we should not downvote everyone buying bids on their posts equally?
Definitely not! I think I should be exempt and I think some others should be exempt. I think you should also look at who the author is and what the author is doing with the rewards. If the author is making crap posts and only cashing out then yes I would support anihilation.
I think my posts are some of the best on the blockchain and it's illegal for me to cash out my Steem since I haven't given my photo ID to an exchange.
I am not trying to cash out but I think we should allow some people to cash out and of course I think we should try and find a way to make it legal for people to buy Steem.
https://steemitwallet.com/@rest100/transfers
I think @rest100 should DEFINITELY have a full 100% exemption.
I don't want to be mean though but if I was a curator I would not give him a small OCDB bot upvote but if a user is buying steem and using bots I think they should qualify for a bot vote as well if their post is super great. Maybe like 1 or 2% or something.
@steemcleaners @ocd @ocdb #rewardpoolrape
https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@boosta/pytjyp
https://steemit.com/@steemcleaners/comments
I’m saying that I use @smartsteem and smartsteem alone I am a accredited author three stars in fact. I create quality content I have been recognized by most of the community for my efforts and my consistency. So if you feel as if I shouldn’t gain surface on the platform to gain new followers from new users being on boarded then yes we have a conflict of interest.
You left out that you are an investor and VERY loyal to the platform. I think you should be given a lot of preferential treatment and maybe even a 1% boost as a token of appreciation especially if you are ever unfairly flagged.
@steemcleaners @ocd @ocdb #rewardpoolrape
https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@boosta/pytjyp
https://steemit.com/@steemcleaners/comments
I have nothing against that and we're downvoting good content less that still use bid bots than the mindless garbage spam, but using them still gives you an unfair advantage towards everyone else not using them and obviously everyone can't use them so rather get them to curate you without using them like the rest are trying. Or face some downvotes cause the bids are giving you unfair advantage towards profit and visibility.
How is it unfair? This is public knowledge all you need to use it is to purchase stake.... isn’t that what we want growth? Or control of who has visibility an who doesn’t. What’s interesting is this guy @louisthomas his feed is popping yet remains unscathed bc clearly he is affiliated with your little cabal.... 🤷🏽♂️ but it is all good continue your justified unjustified path just know I’m not as small as you think....
Posted using Partiko iOS
What that should translate to you if you did any investigation should be any votes I get from that service I deserve 💯
Posted using Partiko iOS
If you get them without buying them then I agree.
Honestly no you shouldn't. At least until auto voter is gone, downvoting of self upvotes is tackled on the same level as bidbots and the tribes are taken down in the #NewSteem circle jerk voting abuse.
They basically took one system of abuse and replaced it with one that lets people be rewarded still for not engaging as the platform was intended. Forming tribes, originally, was brought up by whatsup in a defensive move to protect the rewards/earnings of the upper tier when the price started falling. She wanted to gather in groups and leave everyone else fending for themselves. The same exact person who told me several weeks ago that it is her stake and if she wants to upvote her stuff then it is her right as she earned it. Yeah she earned it all right by playing against the rules, upvoting her short blathering ons about what ever entered her mind that day....but now somehow just because of "status" not "quality" feels she should be protected and given the right to go after others for exactly the same things she has been doing...breaking a rule, doesn't matter the "rule" it matters she chose one to break.
Now don't get me wrong...I'll be the first one to admit the trending page was disgusting in regards to what was making huge sums of money off bidbot abuse but when you have people like whatsup using their stake for their own benefit to make an extra buck or two on post she is in turn not using her stake as originally intended and using it ALL to promote other post/comments. That in turn leaves others no choice but to use bidbots to make a couple bucks on their post otherwise they basically sit there idle.
As far as mysearchisover is concerned I've spent a many times finding humor in how he managed to escape detection doing such short post whereas many others got caught. I guess his luck has run out but fortunately he's an intelligent individual which shows us that what he was offering was basically what he was getting in return, not much of anything. From a business perspective that's a pretty smart analysis, you don't put in more than what you are getting out. The argument that is how others achieved their success fails in comparison to what the competition was like then compared to now, if that wasn't a fact he'd been the one who made almost thirty five bucks on his last post compared to the post you just made with it's lack of proper punctuation, whereas his is flawless. Did you see people flocking there upvoting his ability to write so cohesively?...no you didn't, they flocked to you because it'd paid better for less quality. To which he gets downvoted because he though he was worth his effort put in by seeking a small pittance from a bidbot because you all would continue to ignore him regardless of the status "quality" put forth in his ability to compose. People like him were the least of everyone's worries and for the most part of following him he got little in return for the post he did make and wasn't a huge subscriber to bidbots during that time. It wasn't until the last hardfolk it became nearly impossible to even make a small amount that forced his hand. What you should be doing is going over there and saying if you continue to write in such a cohesive fashion and stop using bidbots I'd seriously consider following and upvoting your work instead of being condemning because he's worth his weight in regards to those efforts.
I do agree that dan does do some excessive flagging.
I know what instigated this post, but I think it will fall on deaf ears in this case. Kudos for trying though, I know I have and have now given up.
Some just don't want to listen.
Yeah it's useless for some people, lol.
OK so "maybe" I deserved this one? ;) lol
Can you switch this one to an upvote. :) #poverty lol jk
Also please review this
https://steemit.com/inktober/@frankvvv/pytxo2
I think I need even more privileges on the Steem blockchain. Thanks for letting me play around "a bit". I probably would have 100% flagged the heck out of you if it was reversed and then taken them away after about a day. ;) lol
How come you didn't try and annhialate me? I was kind of expecting to not have an account?
FYI If I voted solo the vote would not have even counted.
@frankvvv is a very good steemian I think you should be ashamed of yourself and reverse the vote.
I think you should lighten up a bit #nosteemforyou lol :)
Sorry if I may have cause you slightly too much stress. I think you should remove the downvotes as I get to my posts.
I know it might be hard for you to believe but I think they might become even more stellar. :)
I think you should remove your downvotes and help me:
Until then you do.
Flagged for the continual reference to a group of people that committed genocide by killing millions of Jews and others and comparing that to people clicking a downvote button online.
People no longer have any sense of understanding of the words they use.
I know right? It used to bother me a lot, but now it really rubs me the wrong way since visiting Auschwitz during SF3
It definitely put some perspective behind it for me too.
Who dat? ;) lol
I did change my comment although:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nazi
I apologize if this video is offensive to you and or adetorrent and or anyone else but yeah.
Words do change meaning over time.
Thank you for not downvoting my comment which I once again did change change. :)
I was very surprised. I thought you were one of the people who did a LOT of downvoting?
I do a lot of downvoting for abuse. You can say what you want, however tastelessly worded it may be. The difference between the Seinfeld episode and what you have been doing is you have literally used images from a concentration camp in your post to liken a downvote to Nazism, which is very poor form.
How old are you? Your pic looks kinda young. I think I will use #nosteemfor you in the future.
It's a very extreme example which I feel is actually very warranted.
I haven't ever mentioned this before until now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States
I would imagine would could have at least one or two Steemians who are now dead from suicide.
I "guess" I "probably" should have mentioned that before but I think Steemians should be very careful who they flag.
I guess maybe fascism would have been a better but overall I think things have gone better than I expected and I had a real shocker last night which I will likely mention if Steem gets back up to $1. ;)
I do apologize and I did remove the nazi and also the thugs reference.
In my defense:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nazi
I think I was clearly trying to use a derogatory term to that I would refer to his unfair downvoting.
Once again I do apologize and I did delete the reference so please undo your flag.
In the spirit of fairness although me and acid don't seem to get along that great since he seems to keep unfairly repeatedly flagging me over and over and over and over again and he even flagged me multiple times on this post even after he let me know about it. I think it was unfair to set me up for downvoting. :(
https://steemit.com/ocd/@acidyo/pywkyf
I do like to joke around "perhaps" "a bit" too much. :(
Please remove the downvote.
“Thug” is fine :)
I dunno that sounds a little more mean-spirited. What if I called him acidnazi would that still be offensive or maybe rewardspool nazi?
Did you ever see the show? I apologize if it offensive to you. :(
I guess I will have to call him #nosteemforyou lol
I don't know, I'd steer away from the term completely. But that's just me. I'd stick with something like "Police"... but then who am I to say what people can or can't say? I realise it's now in common use to mean something else.. but I think it minimises (and softens) a major human tragedy in history.
Anyhow, you sound like a normal person haha. Peace.
I do apologize and I did remove the nazi and also the thugs reference.
In my defense:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nazi
I think I was clearly trying to use a derogatory term to that I would refer to his unfair downvoting.
Once again I do apologize and I did delete the reference so please undo your flag.
In the spirit of fairness although me and acid don't seem to get along that great since he seems to keep unfairly repeatedly flagging me over and over and over and over again and he even flagged me multiple times on this post even after he let me know about it. I think it was unfair to set me up for downvoting. :(
https://steemit.com/ocd/@acidyo/pywkyf
I do like to joke around "perhaps" "a bit" too much. :(
I think you may have removed a downvote? If so thank you very very much. Could you also please modify your comment. I think it's fine but perhaps you can make it even better? If not no biggie.
has tts ever questioned a downvote? seems everyone picks on it lol
@themarkymark made a post about it once, apparently the creator is pretty shady or something
https://steemit.com/spam/@themarkymark/the-dirty-little-secret-behind-the-tts-account
An interesting thing I’ve encountered is someone else purchasing a bid on one of my posts. I guess it’s supposed to be a gift, but I could buy bids myself if I wanted to use bidbots. Don’t do this, people.
Posted using Partiko iOS
I did that once or twice but people got mad. lol
Some are really desperate to keep their vote selling services running I guess. Good thing is if it's a gift you won't mind a couple downvotes either. :D
A couple? You mean like 50? Can you finally start removing some of them. lol
Short yeah 🙄
LMAO
I read sex-voting (10x per day) 🤦♀️
Ok I'm gonna stop here 🤣🤣🤣
lol yea it got out of control, worst part is I probably only mentioned 10% of everything involved in the EIP
A good change for the sake of getting curation back and not just the domination of bid bots.
I would be very interested @acidyo, to see a similar post on the "before" and "after" effects of HF
21/22 on the distribution of the reward pool. Specifically how widely it is being distributed X SP, both by those voting and those receiving the votes.From observation, it would appear the better known authors have clearly benefited, as others intent on maximizing their curation SP would understandably expect their vote on these posts to potentially gain a higher ROI - an "easy button" response to the EIP ... Right?
But lesser known authors, what about them? Have they benefited from the EIP? Can it be factually demonstrated (as now there should be hard evidence)? If not the case, then why not, i.e what are the underlying issues which are now "out in the light?"
If you think a post like this has merit, then I hope you will consider writing it (or encourage someone to write it, as you have a lot of influence). And in it, have well thought out comments to add value to whatever the facts reveal, based on your experience base. As you have done here, on the topic of downvotes ...
Thanks in advance, for your consideration of this request.
While not a very large pool to view, this might give an idea of how big the changes are. Perhaps @abh12345 might want to compare the top 500 pre and post HF at some point.
Over time, the more the good acting well-known perform, the further it will spread later. If it had been this way from the start, the place would look very different now. We are a couple years behind.
@roleerob I'm mostly a nobody and I can't speak for everyone else either but since Hf21/22 I have had some successful posts, one of which made it to the bottom part of trending organically from bid bots turned manual curators(I do not bid for votes so this was of their own choosing) and bigger SP holders doing manual curation along with various well established curation teams and new ones created after the fork. As far as the 50/50 split, I earn better curation because I transfer all my rewards into SP as I go along and definitely see a big difference in that department. I'm not saying the system is perfect but the community effort is visible and it is my personal belief based on my experience that things have gotten better since the last fork.
Thank you for investing your time into a reply @ladybug146. It is good to know you have benefited from the EIP. Presumably, there are others who would say the same thing. I am very interested to see if a factual case can be made that is true across our Steem blockchain as a whole.
As an investor first and foremost, seeing the value of STEEM increase is of primary importance to me. That will require a much greater "adoption" base than what we have experienced thus far. What do the trends indicate we might reasonably expect in the future? My requested post would be part of the answer ...
P.S. Very short on time, but quickly took a look at your account. Interesting to see a post on Edmonton. Years ago, I used to travel into that area fairly frequently, as part of my job. I will have to come back and read it, as time permits.
Just a quick primer and comparison of two users - yourself and ladybug:
I'm using VESTS as the charted Y axis figure, and the number is the top level post count for the month.
It seems your VESTS haven't really grown since the spikes earlier in the year, but your post count is also quite low.
And ladybug, if she continues to be active seems to be benefiting from the EIP.
The VESTS will also include bidbot sends (and votes), and so only you will know if those should be factored in to a given month or not.
I will try to gather some data that shows the effect over a wide spread of the community.
Yes, thank you for the extra effort here @abh12345. My focus is on the EIP's effect on the future of us all here on the Steem blockchain. Not my own account, as I have chosen (for now, at least) to reduce the time I have invested into it ...
I understand.
It's on the list of things to do :)
Hmm, I seem to remember someone mentioning this to me recently? :)
My guess is a smoothing of the long tail, slightly. But over 500 accounts, this wouldn't look like much. Also, bot votes will likely muddy the water, and could make the smoothing look better than it is.
Will see :)
Not sure what "this" you're referring to @tarazkp, but certainly @abh12345 has the data gathering skills to put this together. For my interest, I would like to see a global presentation of how the EIP has effected our Steem blockchain. Otherwise, I don't know how one would go about picking 500 as a statistically accurate representative sample of all Steem accounts ...
I think the idea would be to take the top X earners a month prior to the fork, and do the same the month following. Look at the min/max/average.
The longtail, seen in the Steem bluepaper, is unlikely to become anything else, but if the EIP has softened the curve even a touch, then that would be seen as an improvement i think.
Okay @abh12345, I can see that telling part of the story. You know all about (I don't) what is available, in the way of global data, so it may well be my thoughts on it are impractical ...
Yep it should be getting better with less users. Good thing we got rid of those million accounts to protect the pool huh?
Hopefully an objectively written post @mysearchisover, backed by the data I am requesting here, will make it "crystal clear" what the impact of the EIP has been. There is enough data now to support drawing some initial conclusions.
Unfortunately, the introduction of the EIP has been accompanied by a major downturn in the value of STEEM. Which, it could probably be argued, obscures the impact, since that in and of itself has likely discouraged some of our fellow Steemians.
Still, in my view, data based purely on SP (independent of its value in any currency) should have a clear story to tell ...
https://steemd.com/@mack-bot
I do admit maybe 50% perhaps even 90% are valid but I'd estimate 10-20% are not.
You should notice that on a lot of the older flags the users are gone.
Some users do also leave because of the low price and lack of earnings but I don't think these flag wars help things.
By SP you mean Steem Power?
Yes sir, Steem Power (SP). And agreed @mysearchisover that the flag wars take their toll. Any readers of what I have written on my account are well aware of my thoughts about this. At least as they "played out" in the past ...
Today? Well, I am not the best person to ask. Many seem to believe this aspect of a user's experience "in here" has improved ...
It might have improved for most people I dunno. I think the "investor class" of Steemians have suffered like the bot users and people who delegate to the bots.
Yep it should be getting better with less users. Good thing we got rid of those million accounts to protect the pool huh?
@steemcleaners @ocd @ocdb #rewardpoolrape
https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@boosta/pytjyp
https://steemit.com/@steemcleaners/comments
I see that dtube sacrifice their earning to steem.dao. They sacrificed 100% of the rewards to that account. But, how many people should sacrifice to not get flagged. A know a few people using bidbots and I would like to know what to answer them when they ask me why they was flagged. Is there a certain % to sacrifice and what to what accounts we should do so ? Or only 100% and only to steem.dao ?
What a joke. Curation doesn't work. It gives more power to whales, and smaller players just join curation trails to get extra Steem.
But heay you want to 'protect' smaller players from using bidbots? Yeah. Free market is not allowed here. Keep upvoting yourself and your buddies to levels plankton/minnows almost never get even when using bidbots.
You just downvoted me because a comment I made in which a bidbot was used by someone else. Several other downvoters saw this and removed their downvote. They actually seem decent people to me. They got another opinion as me, but I got no problem with that. But you enjoyed downvoting me into the ground without reason. And later you laughed in my face about it. Such an altruistic person you are. Color me unimpressed.
You know nothing about me and neither do I about you and frankvvvly I don't care to find out.
Actions speak louder than words. It's all on the blockchain remember. You can't hide it anymore.
Yeah I should probably have not downvoted anyone and minded my own business like some are doing and not facing retaliation downvotes and losing out on curation because of that. Why am I such an asshole for trying to improve the EIP and saving this currency when I could be milking the platform dry down to the last cent!
Why are you such an asshole? Because others who downvoted me started removing their downvote and then you made sure to total vote amount would be zero payout. Next you laughed in my face about it.
If you think acting in such a way is better than not doing any downvoting at all, you are wrong.
I think he might not normally be this bad. I might have been messin with him "a bit" too much. lol :)
Hopefully we can still get him to rescind it.
He "might" have been overly mad at me for hazing the heck out of him and taken it out on you. lol
Unfortunately I think there might be one person on the blockchain who might deserve it. :(
I might joke around with you a "bit to much" and some people might say I harassed you a bit but I never really got this vibe from you or the others. :(
https://steemit.com/busy/@mysearchisover/pyx6fx
I think some people might enjoy flag war games but I don't support serious sinister downvoting especially if it's between two people that really know each other and one of them totally doesn't deserve it.
I think you made mistakes with me but hers. :(
I think I might be able to help you do more than save the currency. :)
I think you're just focusing too much on the pool instead of the price which I don't think would really be all that difficult for me to spike especially with some of your bot support. I would of course want the votes reversed and a big 100% upvote on my blog post but you can upvote yours 100% first as long as it's good like this one. :)
I think you should immediately send your bot and upvote this 100% and then undo my downvotes and then upvote my stellar blog post tonight at 100%. :)
#king #ruling lol
I should let you know I've stopped reading your spammy comments a while ago, there's plenty of other users that deserve the attention more at this point.
:(
I apologize if I trolled you a "bit" too much. lol
I will try and be a little bit more serious from now on.
You do seem a "little bit" busy. lol
He's a nice guy like me. If you got to know him maybe you guys can be friends like maybe me and you can be good friends although if we go out to the club to party it up like rockstars you might have to deal with me calling you my steemnazi. ;) lol
Did you see the Seinfeld episode? If not here ya go I guess I'll try not to use that on the chain but I might slip up at the club lol
#nosteemforyou lol jk
very nice, looks super healthy
Uhm, interesting. Then I wonder...
If that were a faster, fairer, easier and more effective solution to combat the 'visibility' problem once and for all. ¿What would you think is the real cause that Stinc have not done none of both yet?
That they haven't decided to modify the criteria/parameter for the appearance of the first places in the list of publications there or remove the trending page altogether? Nor that they have yet reactivated the regular promoted feature steem has at the blockchain level as it was previously planned & working well enough in first place?
In case you haven't noticed Steemit isn't exactly the most dynamic organization when it comes to rapid development. There are huge companies like Facebook or Apple which manage to do whole new releases of their platform in a similar amount of time that it takes Steemit to change an icon. (Big companies are slow and unresponsive, right?)
Pretty much that answers all of your questions.
Haha yeah! that pretty much answers all my questions. };)
However, I wanted @acidyo were the one answering these questions. LoL
@acidyo, Slowly and gradually Bid Bots Ecosystem are coming on the track and now true picture of Promotion coming forward where we are seeing promotions for Products, Projects, Dapps and any other important blog. #Newsteem is making very much clean Steem world. Stay blessed.
Posted using Partiko Android
Nice photo, Sir :))
Honest curation? And curation? For me it looks like saying from Orwell's Animal Farm: All animals are equal, but some are more equal than other...
This is bullshit...
No clue what you're referring to, the downvotes on bid botted posts? On one side we've been asked to care for the content and downvote lower if it's good while on the other side people say to downvote everything the same way. There will always be complaints no matter what you do.
Huh? lol
.. thank you for this post..help me understand few things..
Hello!
This post has been manually curated, resteemed
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Much love to you from all of us at @helpie!
Keep up the great work!
Manually curated by @solominer.
@helpie is a Community Witness.
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please visit this month’s UPDATE post.
What if I get my posts downvoted even if I never used bidbots, nor before new steem, nor now?
This doesn't happen on all my posts but on most of them I get 1-2 downvotes from random people. Some worth something, some not, but they are still there for no reason...
So why are my posts still getting downvoted? I stopped using bid bots. I'll tell you why: children are running this system. By creating a separate, weighted downvote pool you gave unlimited and unfettered censorship abilities to whales and only to whales. Your dystopic nightmare of retaliatory and vengeance filled downvote wars has already begun. May you sink with the ship.
Man i am so glad to see finally reason and price made steem open their eyes.
I think there are some mistakes being made like with I think possibly all of my downvotes except one.
https://steemit.com/busy/@mysearchisover/pyx6fx
I think you should remove your flags. I did upvote this post since I think you are just making mistakes.
I might be a little too playful at times but yeah. ;) lol
@acidyo @joshman I did update this post.
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