I think you've missed the ultimate significance of the replicator for their economy. It's true that Star Trek is a kind of space communism, while North Korea is very obviously an earth-bound communism. What you're missing, though, is the fundamental difference between the two: Star Trek has universal abundance, while North Korea is poor as shit. (I'll premise this by saying that I know the original series only a bit; my view of Star Trek is MUCH more about The Next Generation series.)
If replicators provide whatever people want or need at any given moment, then what you have is universal abundance. Supply and demand become meaningless because scarcity is effectively gone. In that situation, material objects themselves would have far less significance than they do now. Socio-economic class would disappear; there would be no reason to accumulate more material wealth than others, because in theory everyone could just replicate whatever they want. There's no need to have a big house, expensive clothing (nothing would have prices!), fancy food--except in so far as you wanted to have more space in your house, clothing that had certain use or aesthetic qualities, or food with certain flavors or nutritional value. And yes, if you have replicators to do all your work for you, then there is no need to work--or, at least, there's no need for a wage labor market, since there is no scarcity of labor that can be met by trading material objects or exchange value for people's time. There's no incentive to work, and no incentive to employ people.
If we accept that premise of the Star Trek universe, then we also need to adjust our expectations and view of things like what humans actually do with their time. What would be meaningful, desirable, "good" in a universe with abundance? Well, it would be whatever people chose to do at any given moment. Since replicators don't appear capable of making the complex decisions and value judgments required for space exploration, interstellar diplomacy, or art (notice how any chance they get to show leisure time, people are painting, or doing other forms of creative activity?), then humans are free to pursue those. Indeed, it is the pursuit of knowledge itself, or of artistic achievement, or interpersonal relationships that seem to drive human activity in this universe--and that makes perfect sense. If people no longer need to work for wages or basic material survival, then why not set up institutions to allow people to pursue personal happiness and social harmony? What reason could there be for NOT doing that?
This, though, is why you're totally wrong about the comparison to North Korea. It's true enough that money is not particularly important in either the Star Trek universe or the North Korean economy. But while Star Trek has solved the problem of scarcity, North Korea manifestly has NOT. So the motivations, nature, and effects of doing without a market economy are about as different as you can possibly get. I agree that there's a superficial similarity, but all it is is superficial.
Let me acknowledge that there's a fundamental contradiction, or perhaps a misrepresentation or ambiguity, in how the Star Trek universe's economy works. On the one hand, you have replicators, which apparently provide universal abundance. On the other hand, everywhere you go, you see commerce, and various kinds of work: farming, mining, and the like. These ARE contradictory, because if every society has replicators, then in theory each society would have all the things it could possibly want, and there would be no scarcities of items to create demand. Certainly there'd be no reason to transport goods from one planet to another, since replicators in each place could just produce whatever you wanted. So, the Star Trek economy is an awkward mixture of things that make sense and things that don't.
Finally, you dropped some casual anti-semitism in your post: "the Ferengi, the space Jews, were greedy and only cared about money." You moan at the end about people believing "the meme," whatever that's supposed to mean; the meme of Jews as uniquely money-grubbing is one of the oldest memes of European society. So you've apparently bought that one. And, since casual anti-semitism is based on bullshit, you can take that and shove it up your ass. Don't be a prick needlessly.
This guy gets it. I want a reply to this post, @kyriacos.
Both of you need to understand that it is a militaristic body of governance that has control over all resources. It is the etymology of totalitarian dictatorship under a socialist political system.
Every country claims its army is for "defence" purposes, even today, much like in Star Trek. What one country "SAIS" it is or represents and what it "DOES" are entirely different things. Everyone is judged from their actions, not their words.
I know, its hard to digest but do it. It's pathetic to lose every single argument you enter.
"has control over all resources. "
This is the problem. The hypothetical star trek world (which, again, I concede is unrealistic and saccharine in this regard) has little more control over all resources than the US government has control over all grains of sand. Energy is so plentiful that economy is not needed. Energy is the grains of sand.
"What one country "SAIS" it is or represents and what it "DOES" are entirely different things."
Yeah, except, the Federation DOES WHAT IT SAYS in the show with few exceptions, making this point meaningless.
"It's pathetic to lose every single argument you enter."
Desperate projection. These comments will embarrass you later, and reflect on you in the block-chain forever.
But it is needed. It controls literally everything. If it was not needed it would not have existed. We even see abuse of power plenty of times in many episodes (even in the recent movies).
Not really. The Federation in many instances had militaristic ambitions and the crew intervened. Picard and even Janeway got arrested and/or got in trouble for intervening with the federation's ambitions.
maybe but so far you are appearing desperate. you decided to enter this debate on false grounds based on your sourness from last time. Anyways. do go on.
"We even see abuse of power plenty of times in many episodes (even in the recent movies)."
True, but I don't see how it proves your article true. In fact, it sort of does the opposite. The abuses of power are so rare, and so neatly wrapped up with a happy ending (like only a TV show can provide), that it really just shows how far the Federation is from NK. It's the least banana-republic government of all time.
It is worth noting that the new movies take place in an alternate universe (I think), so they would be a separate discussion from the main Star Trek series, which is all in one universe. I don't know the new movies so well, it is possible everything you say is true in the movies, but I am only discussing the TV show.
"you decided to enter this debate on false grounds based on your sourness from last time. "
More projection. Take this discussion to 10 third parties and they will tell you that you are losing badly because you refuse to respond to the cited facts, and instead rely on unsupported ad hominem. You ignore the fact that I praise your artwork, or your comments that are good, and reduce your data size to fit your preconceived feelings.'
You should focus on your art, as you are much better at that than civil discourse.
Again I ask you to reconcile your statement that all Federation civilians must go through the academy. It is provably false. I have given you several counter examples that are not debatable. Respond or retract.
I said plenty of times. No need to list the all. It nearly destroyed the planet once. also, they had absolute power on earth. hard to be challenged by anyone. NK has a banana republic as well. I mean, who is going to go against it?
responded to each and every one. Btw, your assumptions are not facts. They are just assumptions that they have been proven false. :)
nonetheless. do try again.
never said that. I actually dare you to copy-paste where I said that. I simply said that everybody who wanted to join the explorative missions had to join the academy and that it was the highest ground of recognition.
I am responsible for what I say, not what you think I say so you can make an argument. Better get back to studying basic economics. Try Thomas Sowell.
Fine, challenge accepted:
"They all work for the government and the greatest aspiration was to join one of the Space ships crews."
No, they do not all work for the government. That is false. That is what you claimed after I said this: " There are tons of respected scientists, artists, merchants and other character in Star Trek. "
"there was no value in people's ability other than moving ranks in the military."
This, though unnecessary to add, further shows you do not know what you are talking about.
I'm done debating with you on good faith, you are an ideologue and a waste of time. Your mind is closed and you ignore demonstrable fact.
"militaristic body of governance "
Define this term. Is it any governing body with a military? Because, if you don't define it that way (and I sure don't), the Federation is not one. It has a civilian president.
All the resources and decisions are taken from a governing body that controls everything. They have all the weapons. All the power.
Which was time after time irrelevant. The decisions were taken from the military. In one episode he couldn't even Veto without some majority support.
"These ARE contradictory, because if every society has replicators, then in theory each society would have all the things it could possibly want, and there would be no scarcities of items to create demand. Certainly there'd be no reason to transport goods from one planet to another, since replicators in each place could just produce whatever you wanted. "
I think I can clear this up as written, but I'm not saying that makes them credible possibilities in real life.
The reasons for what you pointed out are that only the Federation (and some other races, independently) have replicators. Most do not, so they still have more typical economies. All races have pretty strict rules about sharing technology. The Federation in particular does not do it because of the "prime directive"; they do not want to alter the normal evolution of other societies. Other, more hostile, races do not do it out of power.
It's probably also worth pointing out that replicators are more like ultra-cheap energy, rather than free. They do create an energy drain on the reactor of anywhere they are used. You can see this in the Voyager series, when they often need to shut them down due to being unable to refuel the ship.
Anyway, that's the explanation given that resolves the issues you point out.
Money, oddly enough, you mostly see with the Ferengi, despite them having replicators. I suppose they felt that was necessary to create a caricature race to use as a foil for the Federation. You occasionally see Starfleet officers using currency, but only with other races. Sort like how US paratroopers had foreign currency and gold in their drop packs.
I may watch too much Star Trek...
Ah, okay, that makes a lot more sense! Yes, you've definitely watched more Star Trek than I have, and probably more recently as well.
I recall that energy was a problem, but what about the manufacture of replicators themselves? Do we know if replicators could make more replicators?
They had these things called industrial sized replicators that were necessary for constructing super large objects (or even moderately sized ones, like other replicators, which were sort of appliance-sized). They had these at Earth, on shipyards, etc. They were powered off of reactors that may have been too large to fit on a ship, I'm not sure.
In some cases, ships had to replicate huge stores of items for emergencies, like medical supplies. This would lead to power drains that required them to refuel with "dilithium crystals" at a port. Under normal operation, a ship wouldn't need to refuel more often than...I dunno, maybe a year or two, but serious replicator load could cut that time substantially.
Given that replicators produced items almost instantaneously, the only advantage to making more replicators was to slightly speed that process up. They still need to be attached to something like a reactor. I never saw a portable replicator in any of the series, they are always attached to a ship or a reactor at an installation.
That's super interesting--so what we have, then, is an economy in which there are just a few potential bottlenecks: dilithium crystals for energy (for both production and transportation), the large size, limited number, and limited locations of industrial replicators, and then the fairly minor limitations of small replicators for meeting everyday human needs. And, as long as those limitations are overcome by securing a supply of dilithium crystals and managing industrial replicators, the rest of human needs are met: space communism, indeed.
Presumably there are also some things that replicators couldn't do. I recall Whoopi Goldberg having to mix cocktails with a particularly delicate touch, because (apparently) replicators couldn't produce something so volatile. So it did still make sense to have "service" jobs. I don't recall things like haircuts or childcare coming up much, but I suppose those would also be things that relied on humans, and thus would have to be organized in some way.
This has been a great conversation, by the way. Thanks.
Yeah, you can't really replicate a "Flaming Moe" too well. It's all about the process, not the result.
Dilithium crystals also seem to be so hyper-efficient that acquiring them only seems to be a problem if a ship is stranded far from a port for literally years.
By the way, there's another good comment thread going below.