What is it with people wanting to believe the Earth is flat? Is there some grand conspiracy to try and convince us otherwise? It seems people will go to great lengths to try and find some optical illusion that appears to disprove the evidence.
Image from flickr
On a human scale the Earth does look pretty flat, apart from landscape features that tend to get in the way. Generally you can't see far enough to notice the curvature, and that curvature is very slight when we are on a ball 12,600km across.
However, people worked out that it wasn't flat thousands of years ago. People back then were not daft and they were obsessed with the stars. They travelled fairly far north and south and noticed that the positions of the stars changed. The Pole Star (Polaris) is pretty much directly overhead if you are at the North Pole, but would be much lower near the equator and not visible at all if you go far enough south. Ancient people sailed around Africa and saw that the sun shifted from the south to the north. Neither if these seem feasible on a flat Earth.
Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the Earth a couple of thousand years ago from the differing angle of the sun at different latitudes.
My first response to talk of a flat Earth is timezones. I've spoken to people in Australia and they will be going to bed as I get up. Flatearthers will say the sun is some sort of spotlight, but would that make it totally invisible from across the disc? It would need to give a stripe of light to cover a whole timezone from north to south, and shift with the seasons.
There are globes going back hundreds of years. Some of these even date to before the Americas were found by Europeans. Columbus and his sponsors knew he wouldn't sail off the edge.
So maybe the globe makers are behind the conspiracy. Or maybe it's satellite makers as we shouldn't need to bounce signals off things in space to get them around a flat Earth. It would have to be a massive conspiracy involving millions of people. It only takes one Edward Snowden or Chelsea Manning to leak 'the truth', or one Donald Trump who cannot resist tweeting just about anything.
Then there's this guy who thinks he can prove the Earth is flat using an spirit level in a plane.
Maybe someone should explain how gravity works to him. The laws of gravity are very well understood. They would get a lot more complex to deal with a flat Earth. Is it thinner at the edge? We'd be lighter there.
I'm not a scientist and I'm not going to look up all the evidence for you. Oh, you only believe what you can directly experience? Do you trust all the medicines you use when you didn't test them yourself?
I'm not going to watch lots of videos trying to explain how I am deluded about this. Those I've seen are tedious anyway. Have these people really got nothing better to do?
Maybe they should talk to this guy. Of course the footage could be faked, but why bother?
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Great article and I loved the video of the high altitude jump!
Someone pointed out that the camera may have distorted the horizon, but I expect he could see the curve. I think this argument was resolved long ago, but people keep pushing it. I'm ignoring them now
Had no idea that a lot of people belive in it untill a few weeks ago my husbannd came home from work and surprised me with this information (they discussed that while having coffe-break). OK, we have a lot of people who belive in horoscopes, why not flat Earth fter this...
I think it's partly about thinking you have secret knowledge. Sometime there is no conspiracy. There seems to be increasing distrust of science by people who don't understand how it works.
I always want to think that it stayed in Middle Ages, but then I go outside and BOOM!!!:)
I have stopped to read anything about that. I found it amazing at the beginning that some where still considering Earth being flat in the 21st century. Now I am bored by this conspiracy theory :)
In any case, nice post! :)
People want to believe there's some secret knowledge and that they have cracked it. There are plenty of secrets, but this is not one of them.
yep :)
Too much a fan of expanding earth to be a flat earther myself.
Kidding aside: a flat earther will point out that Baumgärtner never got high enough for the curvature to be noticeable, clearly, what we see is the effect of a fisheye lens (otherwise, the picture at 1:14 could be evidence for concave earth). It looks flat enough through the hatch at :47. So this sort of "evidence" looks just as contrived to the "other side" of the fence as the spirit level experiment does to "ours".
Are we making such posts just to mock the others and jerk a circle? That's good for group coherence, "ours" and "theirs". And truly easy.
If we try to debunk them, however, to persuade those still on the fence, or even enlighten those who are lost in the "rabbit hole", I suggest we do so honestly, each claim of evidence after another, even if it requires much greater effort, such as jumping into the labyrinth ourselves, and even if it means danger to our own worldview if we find that not all claims of evidence are as far-fetched as the spirit level experiment, and some may get us scratching our heads.
Personally, I think there are flatearthers who truly believe when they watch and make these YouTube videos, and others perform a very valuable role: that of a Socratic troll. It has become too usual to just lazily accept our received wisdom, instead of questioning it every now and then. And clearly, especially flatearthers have found a vulnerable spot, as the unprecedented amount of pieces on their obvious stupidity and gullibility shows.
If all we can react with is ridicule and arguments that they have already "debunked", we only prove how brittle our world view really is.
I just cannot take them seriously. This is an argument that was settled hundreds of years ago. It's just contrary to doubt so much science. Who would really gain from lying about it?
[flatearther]The satanic powers that be, who else? The globe in every class room is the first step in conditioning the children's mind to the dogma that they are not special or important to a loving deity, and merely random emanations of chaos on a speck of dust circling a useless star destined to burn out in just a few billion years. Would they be as good as slaves to the machine if they grew up knowing that their thoughts and deeds matter, that each of them is the center of their own universe, if they had a grasp of the true nature of the world surrounding them? Just watch the "Truman Show" to understand how pervasive the implications are![/flatearther]
I don't disagree, but maybe that's not even necessarily a bad thing in a time and age where "science" (or what is sold as such) is [ab]used to legitimize all sorts of ideologies and political actions. Personally, I greatly appreciate the insights into science I gained from scrutinizing flat earth claims and trying to debunk them with the same intellectual honesty Richard Feynman advocates.
Historically, that doesn't mean much... ;)
It's not always easy, that is true :)
I don't think it's secret satanic powers we need to worry about.
Flatearthists became so annoying after a while. We had fun together, we laughed a your funny and strange theories but it's time to stop. The joke is over.
They should dedicate their energy to real problems
Gravity is only a theory. I have the fortunate experience of having flown in the stratosphere via UAV. I believe that we should question everything. If we didn't question everything, the earth would still be considered flat today. Besides we have to discern the difference between those that will lead and those that will serve lol.
It's a good theory as it explains a lot. What does 'only a theory' mean anyway, in a scientific context? Scientists question things all the time and have to accept when they are proven wrong.
in scientific terms theory is an explanation of something unexplained. Law is a statement of an observed scientific phenomenon. In scientific terms, NEwtons law of gravity is still a theory and unproven.
You're confusing hypothesis with a theory. A theory is an ex-hypothesis that has been rigorously tested and proven. A theory is as good as it gets in science.
Hypothesis is an explanation that is unproven. So you should say "only a hypothesis".
Either way, there's overwhelming evidence for General Relativity, that is what you'd call a theory.
I'm not confusing anything with anything. You still forgot law vs theory. Overwhelming Evidence is still unproven. Remember that historically, the prevailing science of the day always advances when we continue to question and study. Very few things are scientifically absolute, gravity is one of those.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing anything. I'm offering factual statements. Although unproven, I do know that when I jumped out of my plane, I plummeted toward earth until deploying my parachute.
Pancakes are kind of flat.
I want to live on a doughnut
A more valid argument.
Nice explanations! The flat earth thing is really ridiculous. If someone is willing to ignore everything we've learned from science and history, suspending the laws of nature, ignoring observations, and letting their imaginations run wild, then the earth could be a ping pong ball filled with elephants. There's really no limit to 'open minded' imagination, so it's nearly impossible to get anywhere with rational arguments.
What I haven't heard from flat-earthers is what lies beyond. Where does the world end? There be dragons? And maybe a pulley system to drag that sun back into position on the other side of the map?
I had other stuff to add, but I have other things to do. It's really laughable.
I live in the lands of Galileo Galilei, so I read about the "flat" theory smiling ^_^
Ps: I love the first image, it's the Discworld of Pratchett <3
I'm a bit Pratchett fan. He revelled in the ridiculous
I'm a bit Pratchett fan too, but my hubby is really a great fan :D
For a long time now I thought the flat earthers were some kind of psy ops experiment. I think "they" whoever "they may be" is trying to figure out how gullible the public is, and how much of the public they can sway on an issue like this. Think about it for a second, if you can convince a seemingly intelligent person the earth is flat, against all scientific fact, and contrary to popular belief. Then you can convince that same person of probably just about anything. I tell you now, it's a conspiracy!
I honestly believe this is how it started, but now the people they convinced are out there convincing others and making the group even larger. Maybe some day whoever started it will come out and prove your hypothesis correct lol
LOL, psy ops grown out of control. Operation flat earth has taken on a life of its own. You may have just nailed it @brianm4
When you don't know what to believe you could believe anything. Let's concentrate on facts and real evidence. Plus we need to watch those in power. They always slip up.
It would be hysterical to catch them in the act on something like this. Could you imagine the headlines, "NSA Trolls Try To Convince Society The Earth Is Flat". LMAO, nothing would surprise me nowadays.
oh wait... paging @lasseehlers
grabs popcorn
P.S.: I know mentions don't work here... but the idea alone is entertaining
I know he's been posting a lot about this. We should all stay curious, but who do we trust? Random people on the internet?
no... we only trust ourselves... but since we can't measure earth's curvature ourselves... dammit they have a point!
You might want to talk to @fulltimegeek about this
:)
I usually first start with: "Do you think the earth is motionless?" and then work my way from there. People get a bit too emotional with the flat earth subject.
My primary source of evidence for earth being motionless is the Michelson-Morley Experiment. They (the "scientists") dismissed conclusive evidence by dumping the then-prevalent aether theory.
Flat or round as long as earth stays in one piece we will be alright :)
It doesn't matter on a day to day basis for most of us, but many many people have to factor in the shape of the world in the fields of space, weather, navigation, oceanography and astronomy. Are they all in on it?
Can kiwis really fly? Where's you evidence! ;)
At least there is a really good chance that these flat earth people will disappear once we have commercial spaceflight available in the not too near future. Most likely they will just create a conspiracy theory about Mars or something. Like how they think that Mars is actually inhabited with aliens or something and that's why the average joe hasn't gone there yet.
I really can't wait to see the reactions of flat earthers on various flat earth youtube channels once commercial spaceflight becomes common. That's going to be hilarious! Who knows a lot of them might end up deleting their flat earth content.
I can not think of any practical use for this so I never checked into it. I have to admit it sounds very strange. We are bags of water on a rock hurling through space .. now that is strange enough. Just my thoughts on it.. upvoted as usual @steevc
I looked into some of their wacky theories. I won't waste too much time on it though. Some will say we cannot trust what others say, but you cannot verify everything yourself. Science is all about people verifying what others have done. It's not perfect, but it's brought us a long way.
This is a most ridiculous belief, I hope flatearthers around the globe read this post.
I'd like to add that every single celestial body visible from Earth is a sphere. During a lunar eclipse, the shadow the Earth casts on the moon is spherical too. All this is simple stuff anyone can observe without leaving their house.
Stupid theory with the level tool !
I did not understand, how it can proof flatness of the Earth !
Who can explain ?
You can go to high place in sun set to check, that one side is dark, and other is not.
And the time zone is a brilliant example.
Thank you @steevc for funny video !
=]
What a bad PSYOP that was to discredit a large number of people who don't think critically enough. It was a sign to me. Anyone who adopted it showed they were too easily influenced by hyper-critical counter-establishment polarization. Where once we merely accepted all the information fromour schools, people break out after realizing they have been lied to. Then the hyper-doubt polarized thinking can kick in (it happened to me so I know), where you tend to accept the polar opposite of what you now distrust. So along comes flat earth people with convincing explanation to convince you to adopt what is opposite to the establishment, i.e. opposite to the lie. Except, not everything is a lie...
It makes me laugh every time I hear that someone actually believes that the world is flat.
Awesome post dude , sick content as well : ) followed , boi .
I didn't realise the idea was so widespread. I thought it was just some fun little club, but some of them seem to take it seriously.
IKR XD
well written article, I've tried to find all the best flat earth material, and non of it holds water.
I believe these are people just smart enough to know almost everything they have been told is BS. But not smart enough to figure things out themselves, So their willing to be let down any garden path, like flat earth, a new religion etc...Its like being a sports fanatic, using passion without intellect.
the #friendtrain brought me to your blog, and I'm now following.
Keep them coming, I'll be watching.
Hi. I choose not to waste too much time on looking into it. I just saw several posts and felt a need to respond.
@steevc, nice post.
I have a question for those who believe the earth is flat. If the earth is flat, then they have to show us where it began and where it ended.
You mean where is the edge? Some say there is a great ice wall. Not sure where the penguins migrate to or where my ancestor (distant) Captain Scott went. They will say you can't prove otherwise unless you actually go there.
There's also the issue of how a planet originates. The formation of planets is fairly well understood, but how would a flat one form? What's on the other side?
@steevc, thanks for this enlightenment.
lol! I hope to see the fairy tale ice wall some day.
Hilarious post - so it is not that way :-)? Thought the explanation for bermuda mystery was flat earth lol?
There's a whole other theory of the earth being round, but hollow. I guess it keeps some people amused. I hope they don't take it too seriously
Strange people - earth round like this?
I just ignore.. After all, nothing change!
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Thanks for sharing...
Upvote and resteem..
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following.