Sometimes Grandpa Leaves You Something, Sometime the US Government Takes it From You
Just more offerings in the USA that the Government will do what it pleases and take anything they deem theirs from its citizens.
Judge Legrome Davis of the Eastern District Court of Pennsylvania ruled in favor of the US Mint that a seizure of 10 rare 1933 Saint-Gaudens double eagle gold coins were rightfully seized from the Langbords family.
The 1933 Saint-Gaudens double eagle coin at one time was valued at only $20 a coin but when the US abandoned the gold standard, 445,500 double eagles were melted down by the Philadelphia Mint. Legend has it a man named Israel Switt, who worked as a cashier at the Mint, took some of these coins out of circulation for melting and sold them off to a local coin dealer in the area around Philadelphia.
Joan Langbord, who happens to be Switt's daughter, happened across a safe of her fathers in 2003 and with the help of her two sons drilled into the safe to find 10 of these rare coins. To find out the value of this hopeful treasure, Langbord saught an evaluation of value and authentication from the Philadelphia Mint. The government then seized the coins with no compensation on their basis that these coins were unlawfully and stolen from them several decades back.
The family sued but a jury ruled in the Feds favor and upon numerous appeals exhausted the Judge last week ruled once again in favor for the seizure and Mint.
So I guess statutes of limitations no longer apply even if this was a theft? My humble less than superior knowledge of the law here may sound wrong but when does theft carry a limitless statute of limitation like a murder case in the USA? I must be living in a strange parallel universe here because to me this seems a bit siding with the Government to feed the system a bit more vs ruling in favor of the laws in place. If this was decades ago and this man did steal this, it should be kind of past a ruling of unlawful claim to property, especially property the Mint was going to melt down anyway.
I don't know just doesn't feel right in my opinion, but maybe I am still a child thinking "Finder's Keepers" still applies.
Guess the government can take your property in any fashion they want, laws no longer apply here. But I tell you this, you rob me of a few grand and keep away from the law, see how much they won't do anything to you with a little time passing, let alone a few decades. Man this stuff burns me lol.
I just report it
It was an unbelievable crime when the federal government demanded that American citizens surrender their gold the first time. Now to do it again based on that unjust law is beyond unreal, if not at all surprising. The world's on fire. We live in some crazy times.
I couldn't agree with you more. This was an unlawful decision, completely does not fit the letter of the law we as citizens have to abide by. Goes to show you there is no real law on the Federal government level anymore. If its money they want then they own it. Gold is not safe and nor is anyones property now after seeing this one
Getting The "come back with a warrent" doormat becomes more appealing to me every day
I agree, it appears we must protect our property more and more. I almost trust a crackhead to watch my house vs the Feds lol....least a crackhead will be easier to fight if there is thievery happening lol. Follow you, totally agree, come back with a warrant maybe a common phrase we need to exercise.
Keep your gold coins in a book safe or in a strange place like in the back of your fridge, wrapped in tin foil to look like leftovers. big Gov can still get valuables in a safe deposit box., if it really wants it. Ever since the "Patriot Act" was passed it can do pretty much as it pleases. Interesteing story...
I agree, got to secure your belongings of value now a days, can't trust even your local state officials it appears. That Patriot Act was the beginning to me when they went against our Constitutional rights, we definitely need to get that back to the place were the people matter more than the powers above them. Great comment, just followed you
What this ruling does is puts the gold community on notice. Don't tell them what you've got, don't let them find out what you've got.
Also, to those of you who follow Bix Weir: he suggests getting your silver in American Silver Eagles and Constitutional silver (coins from 1964 and before) because their metal purity will be more readily believed. It will be more readily believed because to make a fake silver round is only fraud while making a fake piece of U.S. coinage is counterfeiting which has much more severe penalties.
But now we see "the other side of the coin" in that argument. If you show up in Spain after the financial crash, slap an eagle on the till and expect 20,000 euros minus some fees. The teller come back with the manager and says "unfortunately with the ratification of a recent treaty with the U.S. we are required to enforce the confiscation of U.S. silver from U.S. citizens. If you can prove you bought it hear, you can file a claim with the department of state to get the coin back."
I see what you are saying natxlaw but I'm not sure it works like that unless it is specified in a treaty/agreement with an other country. I own a 1924 double eagle , once thought as being rare because of the confiscation until more recent times where a large quantity of them was found in European vaults and is now considered one of the most common. Clearly many were kept in Europe with no issues during the confiscation.
Such wise advice and a tragedy is befalling even the precious metal market due to this action and the continued actions of the system, i agree with you completely. If you really look at it, they are inch by inch taking more and more financial freedom from everyone, no matter what you hold value they are staking claims on it with laws and bullying. Its a sad situation that we are seeing, hopefully we take our power back but its seems we have a huge uphill battle ahead of us. I just followed you because I am not well versed myself on the precious metal market but you seem highly knowledgeable in this area, going to check out your stuff. Thank you for this comment
Put your money in your pocket someone will pick it, put it in the bank they will chip at it .. Put it into property they will tax it.. Put it into crypto they will hack it .. Is there any safe place to store your nuts....
Wise wise words lol. Does seem no matter what you hold for your future gets constantly nipped at by systems everywhere. Hopefully we can turn these systems around and get them working for people and not against them quickly...the world seems pretty fed up with it now a days. Great comment, followed you and hope to see more great ones from you here now and then
A good example of why you need to know what is going on. I am sure that many of us hear know to keep any one from knowing that might report to the government. This kind of thing happens often.
Did the article say who narc'd? I must have missed that part
I don't think it did but just about anywhere that they may have tried to sell it has to report it today. Not long ago you could go to any gold or jewelry, or pawn shop without a problem. Today they all need to report. If they had known they would have sold it off the record.
Googled it... These are very rare and weren't supposed to be released to the public. Izzy shouldn't have had them in the first place... Whether theft or misappropriation. Th family narc'd on themselves as thats what a son or son in law requested before his death.
This ruling has gone back and fourth through the levels leaving the SCOTUS to hear and decide.
At the very least there should be a trade, but the value in rarity will be tricky. They are very well "Historical" and should be preserved for/as such one way or another.
Its a sad situation, sure the guy probably took it from the mint unlawfully but its been decades and statute of limitations is there for the reasoning time passes and witnesses can't be trusted, I read into this more and this happened after all witnesses were of course not with us in this world. So for all we know the President gave the guy the coins rightfully lol. Just insane how much this system blatantly takes from its people...and here is a case in point. Followed you for getting it lol. Thanks for the comment
Thank you, I guess I'll be see you around.
Anytime, your welcome here anytime....good conversations and good company are a must for me
Thanks!
Government theft will only get worse as the system crumbles further and further until the main event and then it will be all out theft, Pension funds, bank deposits everything will be seized to protect the people. I highly recommend people subscribe to Martin Armstrongs daily blog https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/blog for amazing daily information on what's ahead of us.
Great blog shout out there, gonna check him out. I agree they are getting very dirty with the system on us lately. Act all for the people yet deep down clawing at us as they fall down. Its doing them no good in the long run but I hate seeing good people hurt because they have no clue how to put morality in place anymore. Thank you for this wise comment, just followed you so I hope to hear more from you
This is why people are losing faith in government we the little people don't matter and they do what they want. They work for us and get paid very good while the majority live paycheck to paycheck.
I think at the least they should have split this, there is no possible way to rule theft when no parties to defend themselves are alive. Just another form of dictatorship growing in our system, its gonna get worse if we keep letting it happen I fear. Just followed you, great comment...hope to see more by you here
There is a good book by David Tripp about the 1933 Double Eagle. It's called Illegal Tender. I highly recommend it.
Awesome, I will look into that one...appreciate the share on that. I read a lot and this story kind of fascinated me so it would be awesome to find more background on this subject and this coin. Thanks, followed you
Exactly, the original theft was by the government when they demanded the public turn in their gold. All bullshit and I feel for this family. This must end.
I agree my friend, its time this stops, the bullying by our system on us is getting to a huge tipping point. More people are born and raised to see the truth of the nonsense these powers are pulling and I fear if crypto does not fix this in a peaceful manner we maybe looking at an inner war breaking out that could be potentially worse than the first civil war, I don't want that but I will understand why people end up that fed up. Hopefully we can resolve this issue together and get it right again
Land of the Free and Home of the Brave eh? Man that sucks. Do NOT put it past the federal gooberment to get theirs. Civil Asset Forfeiture is a big problem. Some states are starting to push back but not enough because of the revenue being generated. Basically they can take you shit and call you a drug dealer anytime they want and you can't fight back because they have seized all your assets. Shameful. That will be the ammo they use against crypto. The war on drugs.
Totally agree, crypto seizures by taking your pc under warrant, just wait and listen for the knocks on the door because I sense this one coming one day. Here in Jacksonville Florida we had a very interesting search and seizure taken place a few years back. They called it Operation Clean Sweep. This was based on to heavy of murders via drug deals gone bad, I face it...Jacksonville is probably next to what Miami was in the 80s, pretty heavy crime rate and why I moved back to the country. Their plan was to go door to door of offending areas with high crime rates and serve warrants door to door. They just ran into homes...confiscated all kinds of money, some still in court fighting the seizures due to no crime or illegal activities linking to the cash seizures and it just went silent, no more talks about it and no reporting anywhere. I get it, you want to show a show of force to scare the elements screwing it up for the good people but when was such a search legal like that, just pick homes and entrap citizens and toss them in jail with no real probable cause over the fact they live in a supposed bad area of a city? America man, its not free it never will be with the way we are letting them run this show.
"We're gonna protect the shit outta you!"
lol...does seem to be their motto, on the surface champions for freedom, behind your backs the very cause for lack of real freedom. Protection of themselves, only the strong survive in this game they play and in that scheme the strong are the thieves taking your wealth in the form of taxes, using courts to keep you down, and now straight robbing peoples property. Sad
The statute of limitations simply means the offending person cannot be prosecuted for the crime itself. I have no love for the Fed, but I do have love for our nation of laws, and if the property was stolen, it should be returned to its rightful owner, Fed or not; eighty years ago or not.
That being said - because of the collector value of the coins, the Fed stands to benefit more from selling the coins then melting them down and the surviving family should be offered some compensation for the find.
I agree with you law is law, if its up front and written down then it should be abided by, I am with you fully there. Here is a gray area that I am actually reading more into this and there hasn't been any proof of theft other then the fact 400,000 were to be melted down in the 1940s due to the gold standard being swept away by the Feds. So in turn they suspect a theft but can't prove it. The family is claiming this was gifted to the guy by the Mint for some years of service or something to that effect. So what we have here is a split where the actual witness and parties in place are not able to defend themselves. More reading I found out 10 years ago another gentleman in the midwest found the same type of coin, 3 of them in the midwest and the government deemed it his property. So I am lost here, if it was to be melted, the whole of the circulation why in one case was it okay to let them keep the property but in this one its not? This a state to state jurisdiction thing and the MINT being local to this last case had a bit more of a say of theft due to him being employed there?
The compensation side is a no go, they just lost money on the court battle and I guess the Mint will do what it pleases now with the coins, probably hold it or sell it to a collector.
My reasoning on the statute of limitations is the theft side, they are deeming the judgement of an action of original theft as the reason this property is theirs. But it can't be validated by either party so how can a judgement be made? If they are claiming theft the reason which is the case then I am lost on how a judgement can lay claim to who is the actual property owner. For all we know the President gave this guy the coins lol.
I totally get your point though, I view it the same but something smells rotten to me about this case, more because a collector before sold the same coin in the past and no forfeiture came about. I think the Feds are viewing that these coins shouldn't exists but one does in a collection that I found online
Proves once again that you shouldn't go to the government or their agencies for help. If they took the coins to one or two reputable coin dealers for appraisal, they'd currently have a tidy sum.
Agreed, I guess that is a lesson that the US Government just put out there publicly, do not trust them for any help anytime lol. Good pointing out that one, lol Guess we just need to stay clearly out of their hair and just trade among ourselves lol oh wait, we are lol
hahahaha
Man I tell you this, I wish I had the money to denounce my citizenship here and just find that one last spot with sanity left, its gotta be out there somewhere, you know a country that truly governs and leaves people alone to live
New Zealand, Iceland, Norway, Solomon Islands or Uruguay, maybe. Once this whole thing crashes, you'll be happy to be here. I used to think I'd rather be out of the US but I don't think the system is going to hold together too much longer. I'd rather be in my own country at that point.
You are probably right, plus dragging kids and a dog all over creation to just come home later when its over is a bit of energy and money i rather not waste lol. I am getting too old for my wild adventures lol. Okay telling the fiance to unpack the luggage, thank God for wakeupsheeps for waking me up lol. just kidding around, I do see that point, best to hold your ground and man up then run always, running never solves an issue ever
@wakeupsheeps brother if they try to take my Bitcoins though, you know I will end up needing some serious bail money right? lol
This is insane!! Yet not surprising as the government has been corrupt for a long time. They continue to put their own interests before the people. Sad times.
Very insane, no matter how you view it this was a very point in fact that corrupted power does not have to abide by the laws of the land. If someone stole our coins decades ago, the statute of limitation would have gone in favor of the theif's family. Its that possession is 9/10ths of the law rule, but it doesn't hold true on a Fed level I guess. Outrageous, why I had to post this one, burned me up lol.
You don't have to follow the law, when you have the power to make the law! Unfortunate.
That my friend about sums up the whole article lol. I am getting an island and I am seriously declaring it a governance of common sense government, because it seriously seems to not apply in my country anymore.
WoW! This is quite a tale, I would have sent one in to NGC for certification, then another if successful. Aieeeeee~aggghhhhh....enough to make a guy ill here!
yea I would have shipped that out of the country and sold it over seas lol. All I know if they try to take my Bitcoins from me its hell to pay lol
That money would benefit that family far more than the sinking ship that is the government. Maybe if they would stop starting wars they wouldn't have to spend so much on "defense" and might be able to balance a worthwhile budget that would actually HELP Americans.
You said it 100% to the tee my friend. Damn right, what do they need it for other than killing people or adding to the ever increasing debt. That money is good as thrown out the window vs letting a family have an inheritance that could benefit future generations
Indeed, they can take your property whenever they want... They have a protection racket that extorts from every working person in the country for christ sakes
lol....very very good point. I think sometimes the mob bosses maybe more civil than the monkeys running the government. This right here was a slap in the face to the citizens who abide by the law, it clearly doesn't hold value to them to stick to the rules in place.
I like it...
Good job my friends....
Thanks, trying to always get the info out there. Followed, don't be a stranger
You made an interesting point about wether the felony has expired or not, but...
... There is also interesting to know if the government can prove those were stolen goods.
And finally there is a question about how ethical it is to steal that coins from people that ask you for help because they don't know the value of some asset.
I agree if it was truly stolen but that side was never proven due to the father being deceased. The families appeal was based on a belief they had that the father was awarded those coins from his boss for the services of years in the company. If that is truly the case then the Mint gave that to the family but it became a he said she said case due to the witnesses being no longer with us. That is where my confusion is, if they ruled in favor of the Mint due to unlawful possession of the coin but there is a family fact of it being gifted, how can a judgement of theft be ruled if there is reasonable down being put forward? Seems to me there should have been a 50/50 split decision, a liquidation sell off and profit split or maybe 5 coins to the Mint and 5 to the family. Just seems off the more I read into it