How many vegans or vegetarians do you think have been out hunting with a rifle? How would one even track that figure? Well, I don't know for sure but what I do know is that at least one vegetarian has! WTF right? Read on and I'll explain.
Most who follow my blog know that I am a shooter and engage in recreational shooting at my clubs and on private property where I hunt and also cull feral animals professionally. I engage in rifle and handgun disciplines and rarely a week goes by in which I am not shooting at least twice. I take it very seriously, not just from a safety perspective, but also from a responsibility perspective. I believe that’s important considering the attention shooters get from the greater community and I feel I’m a good ambassador for the sport and a very responsible shooter.
Sometimes, however, someone exercises their right to free speech and makes their opinion on what I do known to me.
Occasionally this is done in an intelligent way, in a fashion that leaves room for my opinion and perspective, and others not so much.
I’ve been called all sorts of things, none of which I actually am of course and have had some rather wild, ofttimes entertaining, accusations levelled my way and whilst I don’t mind someone sharing their thoughts and opinions…Well, I guess I prefer them to adopt a more balanced approach.
Now, I’m not one to engage in debate over gun control, the latest gun-related crime or the laws around gun-ownership in other countries; I know the law here and that’s really all I need to know. Yes, I have an opinion about these things and yes, I do talk about it, but not generally publicly or with people who become abusive. There’s little point in it and so why bother? However…Every now and then a very "special" person presents themselves and I’m forced to give them my standard dialogue which I will outline below.
So what exactly am I talking about? Well, I’m talking about people who call me cruel and inhumane for the hunting and culling of animals. Sometimes these people are vegan or vegetarian and sometimes not. With the vegans and vegetarians I simply say that they are entitled to their opinion and pretty much end it there. The others though? Well, those are the people who call me cruel for hunting and culling and then tuck into a steak, bacon and eggs or some other food that once had a face.
When that special breed of person starts to lay into me about hunting or culling I simply say the following:
Them: You are a cruel bastard!
Me: Hmm, do you eat meat?
Them: Yes.
Me: Shut the fuck up then.
I mean, what else is there? They hate what I do but eat meat themselves? As if them buying meat from the supermarket makes it legit for them and my shooting it makes me cruel. That’s pretty much where the conversation ends although it normally ends with them feeling a little unrewarded. I feel completely happy to listen to a person’s perspective of course, however when it’s hypocritical hate-speech I’m disinclined to engage with them and certainly don’t put any credence upon it. That brings me to an odd occurrence that took place yesterday.
For months a friend of mine, @stuffing, has been nagging at me to take her culling. For those who don’t know, cull means to eradicate, or control, something; In my case feral animals on a cattle farm. So, my friend has been nagging and nagging (not really nagging of course, I'm just over-sensationalising it) and up until yesterday I had avoided taking her. She is not a shooter. In fact has only seen a gun in real life once which was when I took her handgun shooting which she loved. She has never hunted and has certainly never seen anything killed by a firearm in real life. A few zombies on TV maybe...
I have spent hours talking to her about it and discussing what goes on when I’m in the field with the hope it would dissuade her however it has not and so I finally relented.
She was as happy as a seagull with a chip when I told her I would take her and was pretty excited leading up to it. Now, also to add some backstory, this person is vegetarian and does not condone the killing of animals for human consumption. In fact, up until very recent times she was full-vegan! What she doesn't do is hate on people who do eat meat thankfully. Why then would she want to come culling with me then, knowing it is highly probable that I would have to dispatch a deer or kangaroo? I asked her that and her response was, ”So that I have a better understanding of my own belief’s and opinions, and a better concept of the process.” Now, that’s someone I can respect!
I know this girl pretty well. She’s an interesting person being very intelligent and thoughtful, eager for knowledge and understanding and also kooky as fuck! It’s a good mix and we are good friends. She hungers for understanding which is probably quite rare these days and she is always willing to listen and consider other people’s opinion’s and belief’s. We often have very interesting conversations, some of which eventually head down the road of ridiculousness and some of which leave us eager for the next opportunity to chat. So, we spoke long and hard over her decision to come with me last night and she decided it was what she had to do. Bravo stuffing.
I took two rifles with me last night instead of just my culling rifle. One is my culling rifle in the .243 calibre which you can see in the top picture and the other is my competition rifle used for long range shooting which is the one you see below. That one is in 6.5mm Creedmoor. Both are laser-accurate and can be shot with accuracy out to very great distances. I don't usually take the 65 Creed as it's too heavy to lug around the hills.
When we arrived I went through the usual safety dialogue, showed the operation of the rifles and how to make them safe before allowing her to take some shots…NOT at an animal of course! She loved it. We then packed away the 65 Creed and headed off on our hike to find something to shoot. Once at one of my favourite spots we sat and talked about the process of culling which is different to simply hunting.
We went through how to locate targets, range them out on my range finder and then calculate the field firing solution (FFS) which is the amount of elevation and windage input on the scope turrets to make the shot. Of course calling the wind speed and direction and also determining the angle of shot is critical here, along with the many other environmental and firearm/bullet related data. It can get very complicated for new shooters and I’ve written blogs about it previously so I won’t go into it here.
We also talked about the fact that I do this, and the reasons why. She knows I’m not cruel, in fact am the exact opposite of cruel. She knows I rarely eat meat myself when compared to a typical carnivore and that I feel cruelty to animals is abhorrent. I mean, I think horse racing is cruel and very rarely go fishing because I can’t abide hooking a fish and dragging it topside for minutes on end before banging it on the head. And yet I shoot animals. It was an interesting conversation and helped pass the time as we waited for a feral animal to come along.
When it did the conversation turned. I made her range it, put the data into the ballistics calculator and determine the FFS. (I did the wind call). I then made her get behind the gun and sight the animal up. There was no round in the chamber and I made sure the scope was wound up to a magnification that allowed her to see the head of the kangaroo very clearly. She placed the cross hairs on it and I asked her if she would take the shot. Keep in mind there was no round in the chamber.
You see, pulling the trigger and killing something is not something one does without implications later on. It can't be taken back. I wanted her to make that decision for herself, to give the experience of choosing whether something lived or died. For the record at no time would I have allowed her to take the shot. Firstly she is not on the license for that property and so cannot shoot at anything and secondly I was not convinced that she actually wanted to take the shot. It's one thing seeing it on TV and quite another looking through a 25x magnified scope at something that has just been shot; The pink mist that lingers in the air momentarily, the convulsion and final drop to the ground...What has been seen can never be unseen.
I have to say how impressed I am that my friend took the time to educate herself about what I do when culling. I know she respects me either way however I feel that she has a little more respect now that she knows the process. What so many people do is base their opinions on second or third hand facts, even urban legends, rather than educate themselves to the true facts and then form an opinion off that. For those meat-eating people who label me as cruel for culling whilst tucking into an animal-flesh-based meal...Well, it's convenient for them to believe their meat comes neatly packed in white styrofoam trays at the supermarket rather than an abattoir where they are electrocuted, bludgeoned, shot with a nail gun and stabbed to death. There's a high likelihood that you've seen a semi-trailer full of livestock heading to one of these abattoir's and averted your eyes...They look forlorn don't they? That's the thing with people...We don't have to harvest our own food generally, and rarely our own meat. There's a buffer between us and the livestock and that buffer allows people the ability to forget, or ignore, the fact that someone killed the flesh they are eating. If you're in any doubt about what happens in an abattoir simple YouTube it. You'll get a quick education.
My friend was very grateful to me for taking her last night and I'm glad she didn't see anything actually shot. I don't know if she was ready to do so to be honest. What she is most glad of though is that she understands the process better, understands how humane it is and how much effort goes into a shot to ensure the animal is dispatched cleanly and humanely; This, in stark contrast to what happens in most abattoir's where meat is slaughtered for human consumption. Again, a few minutes on YouTube will clarify it all for you.
I don't seek to convert people, to champion the righteousness of what I do or defend what I do. It's my own business what I do and no amount of abuse, "logic" or brow-beating is going to change the fact that its my business. I guess it's the same as people that want to be vegan being allowed to be so without getting abused for it. What does annoy me is when people who have no clue what goes on out in the field call me cruel. Maybe they should come and have a look at what goes on, just like my friend last night. But then again, I'd not value their company so best they do not. Besides, they're often too busy deluding themselves that their meat actually came from the supermarket and that their opinion is the right one.
To my friend, @stuffing, well done to you for taking the initiative and the time to understand what I do when culling. I'm sure we'll talk about it at lunch breaks, you eating your veggies and me probably doing the same, mostly veggies anyway. You're kooky as fuck but are a good mate and a good sport to do what you did. It speaks highly of your character that you did so...You're still kooky although you can hold my spotlight and binos anyday!
Below are a few pics from where I cull just for the hell of it. It's bloody dry at the moment but as you can see below it'll green up nicely and is a beautiful spot. Sometimes I just get out there and sit around taking it all in. I'm lucky to have the opportunity to enjoy it.
Design and create your ideal life, don't live it by default - @galenkp
P.s. If anyone wants to hit me up on Discord: @galenkp#9209
Hmm interesting post. I was actually curious how the experience would turn out. Your friend sounds like a very intelligent girl. I think it's a wise idea to seek to educate yourself on such matters. (I hate those vegetarians/vegans who just use this choice of theirs to bash any meat-eater over the head)
What happens to the animals after you kill them? I mean, the way I see it, the "cruelty" that people see lies in that, a lot (well, also in the fact people love to be judgmental holier-than-thou assholes). Because I do believe that meat-eaters who understand that killing animals for consumption is unfair and inhumane (as opposed to those who think it's just dandy) justify it by saying that it's necessary, in order for them (Humans) to be strong and well-fed.
It's a justifiable kill, in their minds, whereas they might not see the justification in what you do. Which is why I'm asking, as I have no idea what happens :) Just so we're clear, I'm not expressing my personal opinion here...
I was a vegetarian for two years, until I was about 18 or so, by personal choice and I did do a lot of research on that. I watched videos of what goes on in abattoirs particularly because I wanted to educate myself about the truth. You're right, meat comes to us in neat little packages, but wasn't always like that. And I do believe any meat-eater should watch those and should figure out if he's okay with that or not.
But the thing is, most people don't want to do that. Hell, they probably have cats or dogs at home. They don't want to accept that they, too, are responsible for the suffering of all those chickens/pigs/cows etc. As you well know, people are happy to have the veil over their own eyes, just as long as it shows them in a golden light.
I was a vegetarian until the age of 18 (17.5 actually) when I left home. It wasn't about not killing animals, my mum was and so we all were.
The animals I shoot...What happens? Well they stay where they fell. I'll go back a week later and they're all but gone. Other animals est them up. They don't last long. If I shoot a deer I call a mate who always takes it so it doesn't go to waste.
Like others have commented the animals do not suffer. They simply are there one split second and gone the next. There is no intervening moment. It's more humane than an abattoir. You've seen the videos so know first hand. They have a free life, no cages, no cramped trucks, no walk up the ramp to the electric shock area watching their mates ahead of them getting slaughtered all the while. They live life in the wild and then it ends.
@stuffing did well. A real trooper and all done with a broken leg bone mind you...She's a good person and has a voracious appetite for understanding.
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But then what's the point? I mean, you shoot animals on someone's farm because they're trespassing or too many or something like that, right? Well, why would the guy want animal carcasses on his farm? It's weird...
And what does your mate do with the deer? :O
I don't know, I don't think the 'cruel' bit is about them suffering. I think it's about them dying for no reason...
They are culled because the damage they do to the property, fences and for eating precious feed that the cows need. The carcases are gone withing days usually so they don't litter the property. I may shoot 1 to 3 a night and go about twice a month. It's a big property so there's not hundreds of dead animals lying around. This happens on almost ever single farm around the world. Maybe not a solar or wind farm.
Sometimes it's hard for people to understand the concept and the way it happens. For example, last night we didn't see ONE carcass lying around and I was only there the week earlier and shot 4. Not one remained.
My mate eats the venison. He hasn't bought meat for consumption for 20 years. He shoots his own or gets it from people like me. He's a farmer too and has a property even bigger than the one I shoot on. It's against the law to take the kangaroo meat and so that stays, but the deer...Well, it gets eaten. (Not by me though, I hardly est much meat at all.)
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Huh. I wonder if they do that here, as well :O I suppose it makes sense, then...
Why?
To shoot kangaroos here one needs tags, permits as such. The farmer has a heap of them, lots actually, and I can shoot as many kangaroos as he is tagged/permitted for in an annual period. I cannot shoot more. It's a control mechanism so millions of them don't get shot. Still, there is no shortage of them. So, if I was hunting in the outback it's a different story, but I can't take them off the farm.
Culling takes place all over the world. It wasn't that long ago they were culling the koala population here for some reason. I don't know why and I'd never shoot a koala.
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TLDR killing for fun.
I like that.
Sounds like a rare breed of a vegan friend you have; the impression I've been left based on Internet (which, of course, might be different from reality) is that it has pretty much turned into a religion with vegans imposing their morals upon others. No wonder though as pretty much any ideology can turn into a religious dogma. It's just the typical human nature: seeking for consistency, as being exposed to chaos and complicated matters makes us feel uncomfortable.
Anyway, it's great to see that it's not only moralists among vegans with people like @stuffing out there.
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Yes, vegans are a special breed right? I find them to be quite aggressive. I mean I don't mind if a person is passionate about their beliefs but with vegans they always seem quite abusive towards others who don't agree with them. It's weird. My friend wasn't like that and as a vegetarian now isn't either. I wouldn't engage with her if she was.
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Wow, simply outstanding post. I often give a similar story to the meat-eating non-hunters of how much more honorable and dignified to give these animals (even feral ones) a free ranging life in the wild and then a dignified quick, death than it is to see them suffer in a cage their whole life with the single purpose of being someone's breakfast, belt, or shoes and never getting to live in the wild. Then of course, there are the whole conservation arguments.
Well said, well put and kudo's to you for educating someone not familiar with the concepts! Even more Kudo's to her for taking the time to educate herself on the topic and listen! If only more people with opposing opinions would take the time to enjoy other's differences instead of trying to force them into their own mold.
K
Most often people who oppose this sort of thing simply hurl abuse and so it was pleasant to actually demonstrate the process first hand. @stuffing isn't the rant and rave type, is an accomplished artist and very intelligent woman so I would expect no less. She is a shining example of how logical and balanced thinking is preferable over ranting, abusive behaviour. We are all able to make our own choices and shouldn't be vilified for them.
It was good to have someone to talk to out there for a change. Normally I am alone. I'll have to teach her to walk quieter though. 🤣
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From what I know Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian thus we can not state that being a vegan or a vegetarian makes you "a Gandhi". I've been a vegetarian for five years and I used to think pretty much the same way about hunters. I'm not talking about culling because I don't know anything about it. I am a fisherman though but for years I am doing it only as a sport which means that all I catch goes back into the water and continues its life as before eating my hook. Some die after the drill and I'm sorry for that but it's my passion...
I became a vegetarian though from the same reason that you talked about in your post: cruelty against animals. I saw some videos of pigs and cattle and what lives they live until being slaughtered and the way things are done and decided to stop eating meat. I am eating meat again for about six years and if I become a vegetarian again it would be the same reason. I totally get the point of the post and people like the ones you describe are the ones over protective with dogs and cats as well. They would die for them but they eat meat every day. How is different a lamb or a pig's suffering from a dog's or a cat's. They both suffer as well as us, of course. We are biased unfortunately towards pets and somehow consider them as family while meat, bought from the supermarket as you mentioned, comes well packed and you don't get to see the suffering of the being you are eating. It's difficult to discuss such topics and I avoid as much as possible but very often when I see people talking the cruelty against animals, especially pets, I end the discussion in pretty much the same manner:
I was raised a vegetarian for the first 18 years of my life. Not anymore though, my mum was and so we all were. If I never ate meat again from now it wouldn't bother me too much. Everyone has the choice and ability to do what they like...Even hunters.
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Life ends; its just what happens. I can't imagine a nicer way for a roo to check out, to be honest.
Munching grass, then nothing.
No panic or pain. Just the end.
No greater mark of intellect than to seek out opposing arguments and/or experiences.
Top effort, @stuffing :)
She did well! She's pretty inquisitive and I like that. Not closed to new things but open and interested to understand.
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Kudos to that outstanding woman for trying to learn and experience life outside of her own existence. She took the blinders off and really dove in, although I think it's just an excuse and she is a closet gun but, but really awesome! And good on you too to take the time and show her properly not just set of some beer can't in the back yard and toss her your loaded 243 and say give er. Hope you're having a fine week @galenkp as it sure sounds like you are!
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She did pretty well indeed. I think she'd go again as she understands the need for it...She's a pretty smart cookie and like to know things.
Yes, had a good week. Just about to start Friday so looking forward to getting it done and moving on to the weekend. Hope all is well your way too.
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When I am down there I wouldn't mind going out with you but I am not sure I could shoot an animal myself. @momone will not be joining us.
That will be good. No need to shoot anything, it's a good place to hang out. There's a creek and a few nice walks...Nice place to just chill out.
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Love the pictures my friend! Sorry for the late engagement as I am catching up on my feed! Have a great weekend!
Perfectly ok. You've been on vacation which is more important.
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Thank you for being a responsible, thoughtful and conscientious representative of the sports we love. Great post and kudos to both you and @stuffing. Sounds like a great friend to have.