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RE: Which Do You Value More: Freedom or the Well-being Freedom Brings?

in #guns7 years ago

"Should I be "free" to own a weapon of mass destruction?" Yes you should, imo, if you really wanted to. I hate to say, for once, that I disagree with you Luke :) I can't agree on this assertion, "Or, put another way, if those were far easier to obtain (nukes, chemical weapons, etc), do you think they would be used more often by crazy people?"

No, I don't think they would be used any more often. In fact, I would think less. I can explain...

To me, it comes back to why do we (humans) wage war in the first place? I can't remember who said it, maybe RP, LR, or another popular libertarian leaning person, but they said "countries don't attack other countries. Rather, governments wage war against other governments." If we are living in ancapistan, I don't see how using these methods of mass destruction would benefit the assailant. There are no people to take over to tax, one of the main reasons of conquering other countries is to take in their citizens as tax slaves.

"If limiting gun ownership increases well-being based on evidence, then we should pursue that if we care about well-being." - can you cite something that proves this? I don't see how (unless everyone magically agreed to it) people with guns would be willing to give up their guns for the sake of the well-being of others.

Maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. But until gov't is dismantled, I don't see a chance in hell of people willingly giving up their guns without someone else pointing a gun at them.

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The guy who shot up Vegas was not involved in war. He took his own life. He had no interest in being benefitted in any rational sense of the word. Do you think people like that wouldn't consider using a nuke if it was in their power to obtain one?

can you cite something that proves this

In the original post I included an abstract from a paper I linked to as well as the data referenced in the VOX video. It may not be causation and might just be correlation, but other wealthy countries with fewer guns where guns are harder to get do not have the same problems we in the United States have.

If rational people recognize guns lower wellbeing and other tools for effective self-defense could be used instead (i.e. tools not designed as effective offensive weapons) than I do think it's possible rational people would be willing to give up their guns. It's happened in other counties and their well-being has increased (in terms of gun related violence) because of it.

I would say it's a little too early to say his interests could not have been benefited. Whether a life insurance policy or some other agreement he made which to this tragic event someone he knew benefited. I don't mean to speculate, but I can't quite rule it out, yet anyway.

I obviously couldn't put it past anyone to nuke an area if they really wanted to. But why then is it ok for our gov't to have nukes, and not all other nations? Seeing as we are the only country to have used one. I think you and I would agree that people wanting to be in positions of power (politicians) have more violent and controlling tendencies in their nature. And yet, only 2 nukes dropped on populations (in the same graphic region at the same time) since their existence. I would think we would have seen many more nukes considering the people behind the button are considered to be the craziest and most psychotic of everyone.

So to say the old Joe blow down the street from you is concocting a nuke in his basement seems like quite the violent fairy tale to me.

To your wealthier countries point, I would argue that the citizens of Catalonia wished they had the right to bear arms right now. Sure they might not get shot and killed at the same rate as here, but they are powerless against the state police, proven by recent events. Is their well-being better than ours?

"If rational people recognize guns lower wellbeing and other tools for effective self-defense could be used instead (i.e. tools not designed as effective offensive weapons) than I do think it's possible rational people would be willing to give up their guns." - I absolutely cannot argue this one iota. Assuming of course we are talking absent a govt.