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RE: It’s Time to Re-Open America Now!

in #health4 years ago

Actually, the research suggests that lockdowns DO prevent deaths and they DO prevent the spread of infection in the long run.

You can skim over this study if you would like to look at the receipts, or this one, and even this one. NPR's Global Health and Development Correspondent also wrote about it here, and a shorter article written by someone, who's credibility I admittedly cannot verify as much as the other article, can be found here.

Now...Sweden. I doubt you'll get very far in any deep analysis of corona virus when bringing up a small country who's entire culture was KNOWN for being socially distant well before this pandemic happened. Especially one who's death rates are HIGHER than their Scandinavian neighbors who had better legal implementation of lockdowns and quarantine. Also Sweden's economy isn't doing too well even though they never went into a proper lockdown in the first place. All this comes back to my original point: there are health risks involved for ANYONE who catches COVID even if they are asymptomatic so it's dangerous and stupid to think that Sweden is all the better for not going into lockdown early on. it begs the question: What was even the point of Sweden avoiding lockdown when their death rates are nearly proportional to Italy's (the country that's BEGGING for other nations to take COVID seriously and to not make the same disastrous mistakes that they did) and their economy is still suffering?

I don't think you are purposefully being deceitful or acting in bad faith, so I hope this is all helpful and informative to you.

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I never said Sweden was any better per se. Just that they werent really any worse off. Of course their economy will not be doing well. The global economy as a whole is kind of in the shitter now. And I'm sure people there aren't going out as much and still being cautious. The issue here is government mandates. If people want to stay inside and not go out, that's their choice to do so. The effectiveness of the government force is what I'm taking issue with here. Not sure how I'm being deceitful.

And you can find just as many studies that say they don't work. Here's a nice little collection of both sides of studies. It's a couple months old, but the point still stands.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/did-the-lockdowns-work/

I guess that's a bit of an issue with it being so politicized. Then there's the issue of how the deaths are recorded.

Countries with higher baseline infections and deaths (Spain, Germany, Italy, UK, and France-cluster 1) fared poorly compared to those who declared lockdown early on (Belgium, Austria, New Zealand, India, Hungary, Poland and Malaysia-cluster 2). Sweden and South Korea, countries without lock-down, fared as good as the countries in cluster 2.

Btw, from the study you linked. It says countries like Sweden and SK without lockdowns fared as good as the countries in cluster 2 that locked down early on.

Not sure how I'm being deceitful.

"It's just delaying the inevitable" is specifically what I'm arguing is completely false.

Btw, from the study you linked. It says countries like Sweden and SK without lockdowns fared as good as the countries in cluster 2 that locked down early on.

The study that said this was published two and a half months before the article claiming that Swedish COVID death rates were proportional to Italy's was published. I'm not sure if anything changed between when the study was being made and when the author of that article was writing it, I'd have to look at Sweden's COVID progression between late April/early may and late July to double check.

And you can find just as many studies that say they don't work. Here's a nice little collection of both sides of studies. It's a couple months old, but the point still stands.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/did-the-lockdowns-work/

This was very helpful to read, thanks for sharing! What I gather from the “Lockdowns Don’t Work” section is that Lockdowns aren’t what makes disease prevention a success, it’s social distancing and putting a stop to large gatherings of people. Based on what major medical institutions are saying staying sanitary and wearing a mask helps too but that’s not necessarily what these studies seem to be focusing on.

From my perspective Lockdown is meant to encourage social distancing and get people to stay home when they don’t need to be out and about. A key take away from those studies could be that what really works to get people to do these things is a change in individual behaviour along with a temporary stop to in person meetings at schools, businesses, and events rather than just completely closing businesses and places of operation, firmly telling people to stay home, and hoping for the best. Where I live people very much keep to themselves, are exhausted all the time from overworking, and are stuck in their own social bubbles. All of that was true even before the pandemic so I suppose it’s no surprise that death and infection rates in my area were so low compared to the rest of California when people were already inclined to behave in a way that prevents them from spreading COVID. From what I understand of Swedish culture people behave similarly there, and that could be one of the reasons they were so good about preventing the spread of COVID.