I am biased, because I don't speak Finnish.
I have been in the country for over twenty years and a permanent resident since 2006. And while I can do basics in most cases, I am nowhere near proficient enough with the language in order to work in Finnish. This seems a pretty big problem, especially in todays climate, where nationalism is running rampant in populist politics. It has very little to to about what is best for the country or the citizens, it is all about grabbing support for one side or another in order to further narrow agendas. However, the companies that need people often have English as their corporate language, because not only are their offices and employees global, their markets aren't in Finland either.
But the language question is interesting, because I do miss a lot because my Finnish isn't good enough to do what I do socially, meaning that Finns have to move into English to accommodate me. However, learning languages as an adult is a skill, and not everyone can do it successfully. What if other skills were prerequisites for permanent residency, like math, the ability to run 100 meters in under 15 seconds, or paint a recognisable portrait? My father was talented with languages and spoken around a dozen, as is my daughter - but I am not. Similarly, I don't remember song words, even if I have heard a song 1000 times. Should that also be a prerequisite?
Of course, when "welcoming" potential new residents into a country, language is a big part of the equation, as it is a key component of communicating, learning the culture, and becoming part of the community. However, speaking the language is also no guarantee that this will happen either, as evidenced in Finland (and other countries) by the employment discrimination faced based on colour of skin, or even origin of name. Language or lack of language is a part of the issue, but it is not the only issue.
However, this is 2025 and we are in the decade of artificial intelligence as a consumer product, and there are plenty of applications that are able to translate speech into multiple languages on the fly, and they are only going to get better. So, in the near future, how much does any language really matter? Essentially, countries will be able to become language agnostic and become far more productive. For instance in Finland, there are three official languages, with Finnish and Swedish being the main ones, and Sámi being the third. Nearly all can speak Finnish, six percent are considered Swedish speakers (with 90% of them speaking Finnish too), and Sámi is rare. The cost to do everything in three languages, is pretty immense.
Language should soon be a irrelevant discussion, shouldn't it?
It has been heading this way for a very long time already, as the internet has driven a more globalised understanding and English has become the dominant language. But, English needn't be the only language spoken internationally, because in this day and age, people can speak whatever they want to speak., and it can be translated on the fly into any other language. The skill of having a language is no longer such a selling point, so why demand it to be so for citizenship? Translation services for text and speech are now good enough, and they are only going to get better with the continued support of AI, and at a faster pace.
It raises some interesting questions though, because what does "national culture" become when no matter what people speak, there is a common language through translation. What is "national culture now" when it is pretty bloody obvious that there is massive extremes in cultural belief within people of the same nationality, with generations in country under their belt? Just look at the political situation in the US and tell me about national culture again.
Language is an incredible technology that we have developed to communicate and collaborate to organise ourselves, to be able to evolve and innovate, with us even making entirely new languages to describe the world, and to build from, like math and the coding languages. Yet interestingly, now it is becoming a factor that slows us down, because we are unable to progress as fast with our language learning as we need to to effectively operate in a rapidly shifting technological environment.
Yet, our limitation is self imposed, because we are holding onto traditions that we didn't even build or agree to. You speak your mother tongue because of your parents and where you grew up - you had no choice. If you had been born somewhere else, at a different time, in a different culture, not only would your language be different also, but your entire belief system might be opposite to what it is now. You might be incredibly racist - or perhaps the opposite.
Your choice?
I didn't choose whether I am talented at learning languages or not, in the same way that I didn't choose the colour of my skin, or my height or intelligence, or lack thereof - yet daily, I am judged for it. Now that there are alternative workarounds for language, is having it as a prerequisite for residency considered discrimination? And then consider that countries like Finland want skilled immigrants, but expect them to also invest into learning another language in order to have residency security, even though it is irrelevant for their employment. It seems like systemic prejudice, doesn't it?
There is a lot of value in learning a language, but the "communication with others" is of less value than it once was. There is benefit in the process of learning and the effects it has on thought patterns in the brain, but not having a second language, or a third, or fourth, doesn't mean a person doesn't have other skills to offer. Language for communication is lessening in importance, and as such, we should recognise it in our culture, that there are other values that are more important at this point in time. But importance and need don't matter. Language is just another differentiator to be used to separate and control the masses.
But since I don't speak Finnish, I don't have anything to say.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Speaking as an immigrant who came to US from Ukraine almost 29 years ago. It seems to be the situation in US is a bit different:
The main difference between permanent residency and citizenship is ability to vote in US.
I was 19 when I chose to immigrate to US, my wife was in her mid twenties when she arrived. Interestingly at home we speak about 80% English despite our original language being Russian. My second language is Ukrainian, and she speaks fluent German, while my Germain is very basic as I studied it a couple years in the university and visited Germany and Austria for a few months.
I would say the tools are there to translate pretty good, but it would be weird if I was speaking to my phone and it was translating to people. I don't think that would be accepted socially, at least not yet :)
As far as written communication or something like online meetings I think that would work already, but in person it would be really awkward. Also, when you really learn a language you think in that language and sometimes you brain plays tricks on you. I would be speaking English and all of a sudden I speak a sentence in Russian or vice versa and only seconds later do I realize (probably from non-verbal cues) what I have done :)
It is the same here for Finnish, but they are planning on changing it.
There are now earbuds, and I expect that in the next 10 years, it will be very advanced. Europeans tend to be pretty good with learning languages, because they are often surrounded by multiple growing up. Australians, not so much. It makes a difference.
I think this is a good thing and shows how the brain is operating differently. Having multiple languages changes perspective and can even change personality of the speaker depending on language.
I wish I was good with languages. I worked hard in the first couple years here, but continually struggled and then, no one would speak in Finnish with me - unless drunk.
How does your wife feel about it? I think that is the thing that would be the driving factor for me. Sure, the professional side of it would be a benefit, but if it meant a lot to her, then I would bust my ass no matter how difficult it was for me. I'm guessing it is the same with you and since you haven't, she probably doesn't care too much. It's interesting though how certain words have emotions tied to them and you have to wonder how much gets lost via translation. Even silly things like the word "moist". Does it evoke the same cringe in other languages that many Americans seem to attribute to it in English?
What if it was at something you just weren't able to do?
I tried for years when I first arrived, did courses, read books, worked with colleagues (I was an English teacher in a language school at the time) - but it doesn't stick. Finnish is "easy" as it is phonetic, rule-based, and has a familiar alphabet, but for an English speaker, it is supposedly the fourth hardest language to learn in the world, behind Mandarin, Cantonese and Arabic - none of which I can read!
There is a lot lost in translation, but even if I spoke the language, there would be. I think AI would actually do a better job than good speakers. My wife however is an above average Finnish speaker and writer, and gets into all the quirks of the language. Not many non-natives will ever be able to get close to her level.
Then it's not something you can do, but at least you tried. I think a lot of people these days don't even try. Either that or they try, but something else comes along and they never get back to it. That's kind of what happened to me with learning to play the guitar. I still have the guitar. I still can't play. I am sure she appreciates that you tried.
I actually subscribed to an AI teacher recently, where I just talk. I am trying, and will continue to :)
Oh, you haven't met my wife!
Okay, who are you and what did you do with Tarazkp? :)
I don't care who they are, we need to find Taraz! XD
I think you should have learned Finnish in that long. Of course, talent is important in learning a language, but desire and passion are more important. Football players who have been living in Turkey for years do not know Turkish and are being judged. However, if they knew the language, it would help them more in their work. The translation program may not express everything clearly.
There is learning the language, and learning it well enough to express everything. The translation programs are better than most these days.
Language is indeed a differentiator, and in a way a way for nations to control and dominate their population. By allowing other languages to exist, what will quickly happen is a dilution effect, as other more popular languages migrate into a country's territory.
But does all this make sense? Your post has really got me thinking about how this might not even be relevant in a couple of years' time, because as technology develops day by day, it shouldn't be long before "live" translation is a reality.
I liked your approach to this subject.
At the moment, there's an ongoing discussion about emigration in my country. Right-wing political groups believe, even though the figures and statistics don't show it, that mass emigration can lead to an increase in the feeling of insecurity and crime levels. I think that much of this feeling that some people refer to is due to the "unknown", to the fact that there is no language that can serve as a bridge to dispel fears.
This is my question. Does it matter? Languages come and go.
That is part of it I think too. It is also that we don't like unfamiliar, including unfamiliar sounds. It is like living in an old home (I do) but all the noises are known to me now. When I go to someone else's place to sleep or a hotel, then all the "foreign noises" keep me awake - well they did ... know I can sleep through anything :)
I don't even fully remember our anthem's words.
I never knew the whole Australian one. Then again, I wasn't really considered Australian as a child :)
I am trying to learn korean alphabet (which is surprisingly small) and I just keep failing, so I understand the pain :)
Is there a reason why?
nah, no reason. I just watch lots of korean dramas and would like to be able to understand a little - so I thought I am gonna start by learning how to read
and I got stuck hahaha
I believe that the more we get older the more it becomes difficult to learn something; a language, a new work, a new skill.
Learning anything sucks!
Hive on uusi universaali kieli.
:D
Close enough!
Here in Spain, apart from learning to speak Spanish you also have to learn the language of the community where you live in order to get certain jobs.
The truth is that it is very tedious to have to learn a language for each country. I'm not very good at languages, I've already taken about three English courses and I can barely read a little bit of it! :(
Fortunately, as you say, we are already in the era of AI's, that will revolutionize the way we communicate.
ah ha.. u finish, but not Finnish! :P I feel the same way with Tagalog when I move to Philippines. I did live there for 4 years, and do know the basics, like a little kid might know.. its becuase engligh is spoken as a second language there, so I really don't need to get proficient with the native language,
Learning a new language is much more difficult as an adult, and you'll never speak it like a native if you pick it up after your teenage years.
Some people have more of a knack for it than others. If you find the process of learning new words and phrases fun, you won't lose the motivation. You should find something fun and enjoyable to listen to or read in the target language. For Spanish it could be dramatic soap operas or interesting travel videos. For Japanese, it could be anime or manga.
As we move into a more decentralized world, knowing the local language of the country you're staying in will likely become more important.
I remember that learning a foreign language after child years was very difficult!Dear @tarazkp !
I guess you always had a hard time identifying as Finnish!😃
I think it's natural that you lack academic progress because you had to learn Finnish while working!
I thought you were spending so much time talking in the hive because you had trouble communicating with Finnish people!
I guessed Smallsteps would speak Finnish better than you!😄