There is a Finnish government proposal that will be brought to parliament to reduce unemployment payments for people who don't speak the Finnish (or Swedish) language well enough. Now, that might sound like a good move, but the problem is that like many countries, Finland has an aging population and a dramatically falling birthrate - so, where are they going to get people from?
As you will note though, this is "unemployment" money, so essentially the people they want will have jobs. And, like me who doesn't speak Finnish (well enough), there are jobs that are English speaking, because many of the companies are international and their corporate language is English.
However, for someone coming to the country for work with the intention to settle, they have to look at the entire ecosystem for them, and not having the same safety net as locals, doesn't bode well. It increases the risk a lot of making a life in Finland, and will probably turn many of the better people away, those who will unlikely need the support anyway. For instance, I haven't taken any support, but I pay more tax than the average Finn, as I earn VAT for the government through my business, as well as pay tax on my business earnings, as well as tax on my employed work.
What happens if I have to go on social support for some period of time?
After twenty years in the country, still not speaking the language anywhere near well enough for business, and after building a life here and supporting others to grow their businesses internationally - I get treated worse than others. That doesn't sound very attractive.
And, when it comes to "speaking the language well enough", I know people who are fluent in Finnish, yet would not be considered for a Finnish speaking job, because they are never going to be as good in the language as a Finn. However, they would be considered for a job above a Finn if they bring something to the table Finnish candidates might not, like international experience, fluency of language, interpersonal skills.
I do believe that people who live in a country should try to learn the language, but as an ex-language teacher, I also know that there are people who have a far harder time to learn than others, no matter how much effort they put in. It is like math, some people get it easily, some people never will. If everyone had to do a complex math test to get their unemployment support, would that be fair? What if you had to be able to run 100 meters under 14 seconds?
It would be great of course if everyone that came into the country could snap their fingers and speak the language, but at the same time, Finland is a small country and looking to both expand business further internationally and, bring in skilled workers. Skilled workers don't need to speak the language.
Finns speak English.
It is very rare that someone under the age of forty doesn't speak English, it is rare for someone under sixty these days. This is why I pivoted from being a Business English trainer, into being a Business Skills Trainer, because the need for English training was petering out fast, but the need for building the skills around doing international business was growing. Speaking the language isn't enough, there is a group of skills required that differ, and if all the foreigners are speaking Finnish, how are the Finns going to practice them?
And as said, this is only an issue for the unemployed, but if foreigners are penalized for not speaking the language, should they get a bonus for having a job in order to mitigate the risks? For instance, should I pay 2% less tax than a Finn earning the equivalent, because if I do happen to find myself unemployed, I wouldn't earn as much as that person?
Doesn't seem fair, does it?
If the intention is the incentive to get foreigners to learn the language, this might work, but if the incentive is to get them into work, they should incentivize the working position.
What is also interesting, is that this proposal will first have to pass through the constitutional hearing, because in the constitution, it is said that there can't be discrimination based on various traits, including language. I assume they are hoping that they will fly it under the radar saying that that part of the constitution only applies to citizens, and they are bringing in language testing to get citizenship, which means I will never be a citizen here.
Ultimately though, I believe people shouldn't be maintained on social security, unless they have no other option. However, the vast majority of people who are currently unemployed, do have options, but they are unwilling to take them. Most cleaning jobs are filled by foreigners for instance, but there are still openings available - yet most people on unemployment benefits are Finns. Shouldn't they fill all the jobs first? Shouldn't there be a penalty for choosing not to work, even though they have the necessary Finnish skills?
What I do think though, is that this isn't a significant place to save money, so their reasoning to do it is not budgetary. Instead, what they are doing is exerting force on social groups and social engineering, which vis going to lead to further fragmentation and increased racism in the country, and this already causing large issues in the current coalition government.
It is going to be interesting to see how this progresses in the next few years and how my daughter is going to manage what she faces, as she is going to blend right into the local crowd, and hear all kinds of things about people like her father.
She will understand the language.
but what will she say?
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Halfway through the article and you would have already turned me off from ever moving to Finland (not that I was). Hell, I might even consider striking Finland off as a holiday destination all together. This is straight up discrimination, can't put lipstick on a pig.
If this was done by like an opposition party to drum up support by playing the nationalist card, I would still be able to understand, but for the government to even propose it, it just doesn't sit well with me. What is the definition of speaking Finnish well enough and this reeks of migrant exploitation given that the unpopular and lower income jobs would most probably be filled by foreigners who might not be as educated. They pay their taxes and only to be discarded by the government when their usefulness is up....Omg, this makes my blood boil!
The current government is struggling. The second major coalition member party (nationalist party - Essentially One Nation) is openly racist. People voted them in though....
Yes. And, I don't think it will pass constitutional testing. It is a target campaign though to drum up support anti anti-immigration sentiment. It is like marketing, where they create an advert they know will not get aired because it won't pass the advertising board, but it will get publicity because of that.
I read that the nationalists are making a strong comeback in Europe, several years after the Americans. What is the world coming if everyone starts closing boundaries and putting up walls? All it needs is a little spark and it the powder keg will explode......
This is why I don't follow politics anymore. Too much drama and not enough work getting done for the masses.
In the U.S., there’s no language requirement for unemployment compensation, in part because the U.S. doesn’t have an official language. English is by far the most common, but we don’t have any official language(s).
Odd factoid: in the late 18th century, there was a brief attempt to do so, two languages in fact, English and German.
For a non-native in Finland, learning Swedish might be the somewhat easier route than proficiency in Finnish, except maybe for Estonians.
Finland has three languages, but not many speak Sámi (Laplanders). Also, it is interesting that there is far more proficiency in English than in Swedish. About 6% are "Swedish speakers", but nearly all of them Speak Finnish a lot of the time and, they all speak English.
For an English (Or Germanic language) background, for sure! I used to read the Swedish when I first came here, as it made far more sense. Now I am okay enough to read basics in Finnish and get the gist of most stuff. Speaking and listening I struggle with.
Since the stroke, it is incredibly hard, because no pictures form as people speak, so I have to take each word, translate, create an image, insert it into the sentence, then analyze for context. It is impossible on the fly.
I better stay employed.
Seems like Finland has been going down hill ever since I moved away. Weird to see these types of proposals being taken seriously but I am also not surprised as racism has always been rampant in the country within the working class. Really disappointed in how things are going there.
Yeah and it has degraded very fast in the last year or so. Not sure how much you read on it, but the current government is messed up.
I've been trying to stay up to date as much as I can. Funny how only a few years ago it seemed almost impossible for them to get voted in but then here we are.
A tale tells that different languages were created to reduce the chance of people to get together. Anyway, due to several actions we are detached as well.
Anyway, in Italy the law is similar exception made for the fact that the "Unemployment money" is taken away if the non-worker refuses to attend some courses and refuses to go to some job-interviews.
In that case, I think it makes a lot of sense. Then, they recently discovered that on average, 1 family out of 300 is taking this "unemployment money" in the North of Italy while 1 family out of 6 is taking it in the South. So some questions arise.
They also found out that 500 people that have never been to Italy, are perceiving that Money.
But here come all the jokes about Italy.....
It is an interesting differentiator, that is becoming less relevant as technology closes the gaps. We almost have a universal language now and with AI translators getting better at on the fly, it is going to be a useless argument. Near future sees earbud translators making language difference arguments look very ridiculous. This is not the ground to stand on for the constitution.
Absolutely. In my opinion, even if there are no jobs in an educated field, but there are jobs in others, they should have to take a job. It is a market economy, if your skills aren't in demand, you should have to reskill.
Crazy difference! What is causing it?
I need to check my bank :D
Well, we have tons of jokes in Italy about Southern people and their strange behavior in front of the work, taxes and business in general...
And I stop it here 😅
What a strange, MAGA-esque proposal lol. I wonder how they think that will work? I know it's important for these smaller countries to promote their national identities and try to discourage massive influx of immigrants from countries in the Middle East but that seems pretty foolish to do. I guess it's better than massive handouts for the immigrants though, because that was a direction I was thinking they would certainly go. Foolish socialist policies!
The US influences everything globally. The more messed up you asses are, the worse the rest of the world gets! ;D
Funny thing that most Finns don't even realize. If coming from outside of the EU, unless a refugee (Finland takes in less than 1000 a year), there is no social support for at least 3 years. This means that to move here, a person has to already have a job. If coming from inside the EU, there is freedom of movement and there is meant to be equality of service.
That does sound like a tough situation. It would seem they want their cake and they also want to eat it too. New blood and skilled workers, but they want to wring every penny out of them.
Governments are businesses and aren't even hiding it anymore.
Nope.
I really don't know how this would work out though because there is an assurance that people who would want to come to finland in securing such jobs would speak English more so the Finnish language will really be the problem to handle.
It won't work out well!
Before migrating to Canada, back in 2009, the first online interview was in English and the second in French, and on the third day of the last interview, I was accepted. I flew up in January 2010. The technical English language skills helped me a lot. As I had a social and working life in Cana`da, the social part was difficult, but it took me a year to learn the local idioms and to survive in the ephemeris.
Canadian Business College opened its doors to me and after thirteen consecutive years of working there, this year I was granted citizenship. One technique to learn the language is to live immersed in the environment. The accent is perfected, I think it is a muscular and aural aspect.
Cheer up my dear friend, your little daughter will adapt and learn languages quickly, she will have open doors.
I am not sad for her language skills, she will learn many I think. But, she is going to hear a lot of stories about people like me, because not many will pick her as having a colored dad :)
Even bigger issue is more people stay unemployed whether they know language or not, the AI would make the writing cheque to the people a new trend. Because those people can't be hired. More reliable automation and AI is going to make the world suffer more. I wonder how that would be handled in near times.
Absolutely. However, if a person is skilled but can't speak the language, an AI translator closes the gap for access to use the skill, without having to learn the language.
I can relate to the title of this post. When I try to record my voice my headset microphone is barely picking up my voice. but it picks someone speaking on youtube clearly. I would prefer to avoid buying a new mic but I that might be the only solution.
I believe we would have less problems if everyone would just speak lithuanian...Perhaps it is the tone of your voice! :D
Extremism is on the rise. I suspect, as in other countries in Europe, there are nationalist parties with fear or hatred of immigrants and with these measures they seek to discourage immigration.
When these parties come to power or are necessary for others to govern, we read more and more ideas like the one you have transmitted to us from the government at the end.
Best regards
I am glad to see you in these parts. Changes are coming, people are getting tired, we are all earthlings, enough of the invisible borders imposed by man himself in his desire for power and control.
Invisible borders are those that are most dangerous.
The fear/hatred of those who are different and even more so if their economic level is low. That's why these "economic" laws related to unemployment, what they really hide is a protectionism towards the immigrant with little economic activity.
The big executives or elites are more likely to fall into unemployment and that's why this kind of laws are against working classes or low income and immigrants.
Now this got me thinking because I am soon to depart to France because I have a relative there. Is it that big the racism and all?
You will encounter racism in any country you decide to settle in, the important thing is that you adapt and do not impose your customs, but accept the customs of the adopting country. Never say that “my country is the best country in the world”, that will cause contempt… France is a charming country with its virtues and faults, but its culture is beautiful.
I wish I had grounds to say that. But I don't, so I guess it will come more honest from me. Haha. Thanks for the tips. I just hope I don't do anything too rude in there. We latinos are so open and easy going.
I am Latino, specifically from Venezuela. I have been living in Canada for 14 years, and in March of this year I was officially granted citizenship. Just be respectful, learn about the new culture, study their laws, so you don't get into trouble. Cross the street where you are supposed to, don't litter, don't shout, don't listen to loud music -the neighbours are not obliged to listen to your style of music-. Respect the rules and be a good citizen… Success.
Hello fellow contryman! I am also from Venezuela. So... Canada is technically quite French isn't? Thanks for the advice. I am going to need it.
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I feel that is not good enough. I would not call it racism even though it is looking like that...lol
I think they are just trying to force everyone in the country to be able to speak their language and that may not work...
Our world is fast becoming fragmented and poked with racism. There is a bigger agenda going on out there that is not people friendly. But we are not part of the deciding club.
I don't think it's a good decision because it will create discrimination between local and foreign people. If they want skillful manpower then I feel it's not a wise idea because skill has nothing to do with language. Let's wait and see what the outcome is in the future days.
All people are equal before the law. And here the government wants to divide people even more. This is just disrespectful to the citizens of their country.
I think many goverments have social security deficits today. They try to reduce it by some methods such as increasing retirement age, decreasing unemployment salary, not covering all the medical expenses...
If I understand correctly, far right True Finns party is part of Finnish government coalition. I would assume that cheap anti-immigrant populist measures like those are designed to win votes or maintain support about certain segments of Finnish population.
It's not very different from what is going on in many other European countries, in one degree or another. Rough economic times always create resentment that is going to be exploited by various political forces that would be marginalised in good or normal times.
Yikes! I would hate to see something like this for English in the USA. That would be an ugly mess and it sounds like this bill is not coming from a good place. Dislike!
On the other hand, I was always quite sharp at math tests and learning languages, so bring on the exams. I enjoy a good challenge.
Guao que difícil de verdad, es muy difícil aprender un idioma tan complejo y además las jergas que se manejan por cada grupo/ edad diferente.. que chimbo