Feedback on Creator Subscriptions and Anti-Abuse Concerns
Hey everyone, hope you're all doing well. Recently, I came across the new "Creator Subscriptions" feature by Leofinance, and it sparked some questions in my mind. Consider this post my feedback on the Creator Subscriptions.
For those unfamiliar with it, you can read the official announcement here:
Introducing Creator Subscriptions | Paywall Encrypted Content on Hive, Earn More Crypto
How Creator Subscriptions Work
VERY IMPORTANT: Sub-only blog posts live as encrypted comments on the Hive blockchain. This was very important to me as we are able to keep the encrypted blogs off of your main Blog Feed on Hive. For many authors, they don't want their normal L1 Hive Blog Post Rewards to be effected by other forms of content. Our workaround for Threads (Short-form microblogging) is very similar to what we've now created for encrypted blogs. Instead of pushing to the base-layer and interfering with Hive Social standards around blog posts, your encrypted sub-only blogs will get posted as comments and live outside the standard Hive L1 blog feeds.
(Soucre: from above mentioned post)
This being said, the encrypted content are comments on the Hive Blockchain. This means that any user can still upvote them normally and as long as they are posted via https://inleo.io, they are eligible for both LEO and HIVE rewards pool rewards.
(Soucre: from above mentioned post)
Testing Paid Blogs/Microblogs
Recently, Gwajnberg tested this feature (during a public discussion in discord), and upvotes were enabled for a paid post. While I have no issue with premium content behind a paywall, it's concerning that subscriber-only content can still receive upvotes. For instance, anyone paying 5 HBD a month to Gwajnberg can access the post.
Why This Could Be a Problem for Anti-Abuse?
Here’s where it gets tricky. Since the content is encrypted, no one can see if the post is high quality or just nonsense, like “jajajajajajaja…”.
This means if a post gets a $10 upvote, we wouldn’t know if it’s worth it. It could be a well-written guide or just a random picture of a cat.
The Bigger Issue: Hive’s Shared Reward Pool
When authors decline rewards on encrypted posts, there’s no issue. But when rewards are allowed, it means every stakeholder on Hive contributes to a post they can’t even see or judge.
Since authors are already earning from subscriptions, why take additional rewards from Hive’s shared pool? The Leo token already offers a parallel economy to handle this if it's necessary, so why involve Hive rewards?
Conclusion: Potential for Abuse
In summary, allowing author rewards from Hive’s pool on encrypted, subscriber-only content could lead to abuse and even flag wars. I’m not against innovation or trying something new, but it’s important to take user feedback seriously and make adjustments when necessary.
Well, those are just my thoughts. I'm just a Hive user like the rest of you.
I find it inconceivable that a blockchain, designed to be immutable, censorship-resistant and transparent can allow a way for users to post opaque content. The chances of anyone paying 5HBD to read a post by almost anyone on here is close to zero, leaving the very strong possibility of definitively unprovable abuse taking on many forms as you've pointed out.
Leo seems to act with impunity and zero consideration for the chain as a whole and I am always surprised they haven't forked off and created their own chain. Then again, that would cost them and why bother when they can create scheme after scheme without fear of retribution?
Have you taken a look at the Distriator, #spendhbd project yet? I'd be interested to hear your views.
PS It's started already. Check out the most recent post from mcoinz79. Buy my subscription and i'll curate your posts...
Best wishes :-)
Thanks for addressing my concerns. I've been wondering why not many people are commenting. Some even DM me on Discord, but they don't leave comments. I think they may fear being banned from Leovoter curations, which are limited to the Leofinance frontend.
Before I answer your question, let me clarify that while I support the HBD Stabilizer, I don't vote for this proposal (I usually vote for return proposals).
I also want to share a review about HBD with you:
https://peakd.com/@dlmmqb/re-theycallmedan-sib18i
I'm familiar with most on-chain matters, but when it comes to proposals and their funding, it's beyond my understanding at this point. Sometimes, I just wish the DHF (Decentralized Hive Fund) would end, but that's just a passing frustration.
Now, regarding #spendHBD, I’m well aware of it, but I don't believe it will work in Pakistan. Why? Because politicians here want a cut from everything, whether legal or illegal is another discussion. Even China can't satisfy the greed of a corrupt system. So, spending resources and energy on #spendHBD in Pakistan won’t be worth it. Perhaps working with online payments in Pakistan using #spendHBD could work, but as for physical stores, it's not feasible.
Why am I so certain it won't work? Honestly, I wish I were wrong. A few years ago, Waqar Zaka (the founder of TenUp and a crypto celebrity in Pakistan) started a burger shop in DHA, Karachi (accepting bitcoin as a payment method). That venture didn’t end well. Crypto is still considered taboo in Pakistani society. Pakistan got internet access later than many nations, and people are still going through the natural cycle of internet literacy. In my opinion, internet literacy here is so low that people don't even understand why watching inappropriate content on public Wi-Fi in educational institutions is risky. They may hide physically, but not from internet service providers.
Additionally, Pakistan is a Muslim country, and there’s a lot of debate around what's considered halal and haram. I'm sharing a screenshot from a recent question in the HivePakistan query channel. If you hang around more, you’ll see that I don’t just answer Hive-related questions; I also motivate and mentor people. It’s a tough role, but I do what I can:
There will be many challenges, including the acceptance of HBD as a concept by the general public in Pakistan.
Ahh, I understand the debate as Sharia banking etc is a very complex balancing act.
Generally I absolutely support being able to spend HBD but what im unsure of is the way users are being paid back half their spend after doing their 'review' post making the scheme a beneficiary and reviewing huge updates from distriator-bene. It's all a bit ponzi to me.
Thanks for taking the time and I hope the studies are going well :-)
@nathen007
A quick note: I completed my studies in February this year. It's finally DONE! Hahaha.
Now, I'm working a bit in the teaching sector. I find more peace in teaching compared to office work.
New challenges have emerged, especially related to my upcoming marriage (Even before the partner is decided, societal and cultural challenges).
On top of that, I'm working on getting certifications. Even after finishing my degree and job, the paperwork and certifications are still a headache. It makes my head spin.
Then, there’s the task of creating PDFs (Team access only) for PAKX and Panda Token, which brings its own set of challenges. It feels like a whole different world of obstacles. Real-life jobs don’t even seem tough in comparison!
Congratulations on completing your studies and upcoming nuptials. Life never stands still and best wishes with the teaching. Imparting and sharing knowledge is the noblest of professions.
Enjoy the journey and best wishes, fella :-)
I agree with you, basically voting circles can come to vote for the content of a post that contains irrelevant garbage and it is simply not going to be possible to know its content, unless of course, the HW pays the subscription for each of the authors they decide to monitor.
A possible solution would be for the post to be reviewed before being published to mainly check that it is not garbage, machine code, or anything irrelevant. Maybe this will help, I'm not too sure about it.
HW is not the only abuse watchers. Everyone of us are abuse watchers. We don't need anyone's approval or funding to do antiabuse.
Just clearing some doubts.
Just decline post rewards and earn from paid subscriptions. As long as they are eligible for rewards, anyone can downvote them too. Rewards are given based on number of upvotes and downvotes. Downvotes r tool for anyone who disagrees with certain way of things. Other options are changing witness votes and proposal funding votes.
This sounds very reasonable to me, I suppose that then there will be content creators who will want to put a high price on their subscriptions, since there are cases in which they can generate more than 5HBD in a single publication.
True, but I find it very difficult for someone to subscribe using their own rewards just to combat or check for any abuse. I suppose whoever does it will be because they have the resources or because they are really interested in the well-being of hive.
Antiabusers wouldn't need to access content. They can downvote on layer 1 as layer 1 rewards are enabled. No need to pay $ to access for downvoting. If nobody wants they to interfere, solution is to decline Layer 1 SHARED AUTHORS REWARD POOL.
Remember that, I use downvotes as my last resort. I might sound like a pro downvoters but I am not. I think you know me better :)
Even if the content is encrypted? I understand your point, I just don't think those authors are going to decline the rewards, I suppose there will be a lot of crying.
I guess a little better, but that doesn't mean I've lost respect for you. And this is because you have given me a couple of lessons about your culture, and you have earned my respect because of that.🤗
That's what I mentioned about flag wars. Crying will not be one sided. In wars every looses.
You might even realize, I am not doing it for me. I am doing it for hive. Or I am not even doing anything, just raising my concerns related to upcoming storm.
And I agree with you, I see a big storm coming. What surprises me is the ability you have to get into them, I guess you enjoy it 😀
I apologize for the comment in Spanish, I forgot to translate it, but I have already corrected it
I dont really have a problem with Sub-concent either. But its leeching off of Hive and then we can see the content on Hive?
Thats kinda bullshit x)
Isn't Leo Hive's Retard little brother? :p
Did you meant can't?
Not the first time. Polycub investors lost alot in past. Still can't stop myself from expressing how thankful I am for twitter logins (lite accounts) because of LeoFinance team. VSC (Hive L2 smart contracts team) is working on all kinds of logins now including metamask. Onboarding experience will get better over time.
Whales kind off like it. It's a staked based game. They got the skin in the game and thus proposals r funded according to their wants. If we wanna do something different, we have to get skin in the game.
I did mean "cant" yes. Shitty auto-correct :p
Not to mention how many people lost money on Cub x)
True! And I am trying to get more skin in the game :D I am just not investing as much as other people do from Fiat to Hive x)
Everything comes with it's disadvantages also and it's the same in this case also. Let's wait and see how it goes in the future.
Can you summarise the meaning of SHARED AUTHOR REWARD POOL?
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Thanks!
Thanks!