In a client discussion today, the topic slipped into talking about relationships, although that wasn't the initial focus at all. It was actually about the client's son playing Playing games, even though he is nearing 30 years of age, which is of course common. But, his son also has a partner and children and we were then discussing what this might mean for the relationship - where is the line?
While it is healthy to have some level of "me time", there is probably some kind of non-static line of amount that will affect the relationship and is going to move depending on circumstances. For example, if you imagine a scenario of husband and wife where the husband spends a couple hours each evening with his friends, you might be thinking that his wife may not be too happy and you would likely not be surprised if she left the relationship.
It is not just about spending time together, as I think that there are different kinds of activities that are needed for a relationship. For example, a wife can go to work or spend time at the gym, which is time away from the husband, but that is also adding value to the relationship - What I wonder is, what volume of activity can there be that doesn't add value to the relationship, before the relationship suffers.
This is going to depend heavily on the people involved and their own preferences and personalities, but I will assume that in most relationships, there is some kind of dynamic at play in this regard and even if people don't think specifically about it, they feel it. How much time gaming, spent scrolling social media or reading the news can a relationship survive - or more importantly, thrive under?
Relationships can be difficult at the best of times without putting additional stress on them. As I frame it for myself, it is grow together, or grow apart - and this requires having both a self-centered focus and a focus as a common unit that works in unison, that meshes. With far more energy being put on the well-being of the individual which has led to perhaps an overemphasis on personal desire satisfaction, the common unit aspect of relationships might be suffering, where that dynamic and invisible line is not being discovered.
Personally, one of the joys of being in a relationship is being able to satisfy the needs and some of the wants of my partner, even though there is always going to be shortfall. However, that is a two way street and that means that for the relationship to work, I also have to have my needs and some of my wants satisfied too.
If we see that meeting relationship needs and wants is building relationship collateral, how much time and energy can be spent on non-value-adding activities has to be considered - thinking that some of that "me time" is actually value adding - but will suffer from the law of diminishing returns. The problem is that things like personal entertainment can feel good and be very attractive, even if partaking past that invisible line is doing more harm than good, to both the individual and the common unit relationship.
With so much attention grabbing activity that not only gives pleasure, but is also a place to avoid dealing with pressures of life, it is pretty easy to see the potential damage that could be done to a relationship, where the relationship itself breaks down due to neglect. And perhaps neglect is where it all leads when we spend too much time on ourselves, not enough time on the people we supposedly care about and the world in which we live.
We might be in a cycle of neglect where we are able to run from difficulties and do more of what might have been causing the difficulties in the first place, We have a need for social intimacy, but if we are unable or willing to give, we ourselves will also go lacking. We end up in a dysfunctional area that while it feels like we are being neglected, the cause could be our own neglect of others - so the cycle of reciprocity is a feedback loop of, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There are many reasons that relationships don't work or fall apart, but I think that we are increasingly creating a world where we are less willing to build that relationship value and instead look to maximize ourselves. With the growing rate of divorce or perhaps more alarmingly, people not building strong relationships at all - I think that we will continue to see personal depression and social breakdown, as if we can't even be bothered to consider the needs and wants of the people we are closest to, we aren't likely to see much improvement in the wider community.
I think that the invisible line in a relationship is intertwined with the invisible line within ourselves, where what we do that benefits us, turns into something that harms us. Like a glass of wine with dinner, or two bottles sitting in the corner crying - somewhere in there, the benefits shift to detriments.
I guess that if we were truly going to maximize our lives for optimal experience, we have to be able to include the optimization of the lives of others, at least those we are closest to. This means that we would have to compromise in some areas as an individual to include the model of the relationships we hold. Perhaps the "perfect" solution is always going to be a line of best fit and that line is continually going to move with the conditions. If we aren't paying attention, that line can travel so far that the bonds that tie us loosen to the point that the people we care about the most, become strangers.
While this might not matter to many people and they might not think nor care about it in the slightest - I do believe that the relationships we have deserve consideration and if we did give them a little more thought, we would likely also put in a little more effort. All it might be is an act that reminds another person that I am thinking of them, that they matter to me and as such, I am willing to do a little less of what I want so I have the space to do something they want and perhaps find that line where we both get more of what we want together.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
If you and the people you were talking with all knew about the son's gaming habit it is already excessive and causing problems. Just sayin'
I've had a lifetime problem with the understanding of my motorcycle habit. I'm not a 1%er or even close. I am not all motorcycle all the time. Not at all.
But it IS my away time. Has been since I was 14. I've tried quitting completely a couple of times and ended up building resentment because I didn't have it. With the best ex I had a dirt bike that I could take out for a few hours a couple of times per month. It was not completely satisfying but enough. I really need to get out on the road for a couple of days per month.
So I'm done trying. I understand that sounds like a harsh choice, but it is what it is.
I get my female companionship from friends. It works for me.
I think part of it is about finding a partner that can truly accept (not just in the honeymoon phases) some kinds of behavior - but at the same time - if for example you wanted 5 days a month riding and that became 15 on average, that isn't really the agreement.
I like having something in common with my wife (dancing - though we rarely get to these days). I made it really easy on myself - I met her dancing - rather than try to convince her to dance :)
I don't know the guy directly, but I have taught his dad for 10 years or so and he was saying that the wife doesn't like the gaming - so it is probably too much. I had a friend in Australia have his marriage end after his addiction to World of Warcraft - and his wife was a stunner and a very cool woman. People make strange decisions in life to satisfy some pretty useless desires, while far more important things go begging.
I agree, and also there is always a financial component that is important too. Riding, or even having a motorcycle is not particularly cheap. I get it.
I could never impart that I wasn't riding away from my partner but riding toward me. A day or two out and my entire outlook on life changes. I mean seriously. I've said it many times because it's true: Every hour I ride includes a 59 minute vacation. I can relax completely and consider what is really important to me and my life.
My best ex would occasionally remind me that it was time to go to an AA meeting. Same sort of attitude change, often. She never, ever once said "I think you should go for a ride".
Addiction/compulsion in all areas of life is generally problematic to all parties concerned.
I think the cost is more important when it is only one party that is interested - if both enjoy it, cost is easier to justify - within reason.
I wonder how many things could become more healthy surrogate habits for addicts - do pets help?
The really large first step is to believe and admit that it might be a problem. Then substitute habits can come into play.
In drugs and alcohol there is such a physical context that has to be dealt with that the mental part is almost secondary early on.
I have never been much of an addict, so have to work to try to understand it. I noted from when I was very young that I was never really a fan of anything, sport or a band, a car manufacturer or a clothing brand - I have wondered if there is a relationship between the systems in some way, where people who "commit" to a specific thing in support are more likely to have some kind of addictive personality. Genetics obviously plays a huge role in all of this and perhaps my "disinterest" in a narrow topic of some sort is also some kind of insulation from addiction. I don't know - just speculating :)
You know? I've studied it pretty carefully for the last 30 years and I've really got no answers outside my self.
It seems to cut across all lines. I've been going to meetings in multiple locations for 30 years and I don't think anybody knows exactly why. I know I liked the effect of alcohol the first time I drank and was a black out drinker by the time I was 18. I actually straightened out some in my early 30s. If you call delaying the black out until I was home for the day straightening out. I was much more acceptable to society in that way. A successful day for me was if I made it to my bed before I passed out. Maybe 50% of the time. I was a trusted employee, and I did a lot of good work. A lot of shit work too.
Genetics doesn't seem to play a part for me. My mother's children have no addiction tendencies, and I've told my father's children that I am a recovering alcoholic and none of them have risen to that bait.
I just don't know. Amazingly, why is not even a consideration for me. What I can do to keep from that is everything.
The kind of choice you made is becoming increasingly common.
I do not think that the outcome is going to be good on average when 20 year olds are making the decision for the rest of their life. I think we are seeing the results of that now in the depression numbers, as well as a lot of the social dysfunction that is happening. There are many factors compounding, social disconnection and a lack of intimacy is a big one in my opinion.
For the people who make that choice it's usually a huge relief. I'm guessing most guys who make the choice do it at middle age when they've gone through divorce hell - often the type that doesn't even exist in Finland unlike in much of the English speaking world. As for the 20-year-olds who choose not to pursue intimate relationships, I'm guessing many of them have had second hand exposure to particularly nasty relationship outcomes.
I wonder how long it is a huge relief for and how many end up lonely over time?
I wonder how many who go through divorce hell are also heavily involved in making that divorce hell - I would suspect that they play a pretty big part on average. Maybe it is a confirmation bias and they are the kinds of people who just aren't good in any relationship.
So rather than try and work at it, it is healthier to avoid intimacy?
I have no experience in that. But I guess it depends on the person and their situation. There seems to be a period in human life when the mating urges are at their strongest. From the late teens into young adulthood is the time when people are the most anxious to find a mate. That makes sense. But the urge gets weaker at a later age.
The legal systems in many jurisdictions in the Anglophone world play a big role in that. Divorces are very commonplace. Marriage by definition is not just between two people. Where contested divorces are commonplace, lawyers win. It's a system where women in particular have cash and prizes to win if they've married anyone with any assets. And I've heard pretty awful stories about guys who didn't have much but who were still railroaded by the system.
But anyway, it doesn't matter whose fault is what. If marriage has left some middle-aged divorcee with such a foul taste in their mouth that they are not willing to participate in it a second time, then why should these people be shamed into it?
Relationships always involve major trade-offs. As you very well know, a married man's time, money and life are no longer his. For some, that trade-off makes sense. For others, not that much. And intimate relationships are not some magical holy grail of happiness and meaning and not by far the only sources of meaning.
As far as I'm concerned, I will gladly let grown up people run their lives as they see fit. Who is anyone else to tell them they're living it the wrong way barring any illegal, immoral etc. etc. choices?
I think it would be helpful to separate "urge for mating" from "desire for intimacy and partnership", as they are two very different things.
Shamed into it? I think there is quite a difference between wanting a healthy relationship and a fear of ending up in another unhealthy one.
People can always do what they want, but I think a lot of people are making decisions early that are going to affect them later on in life in ways they don't understand. Like investing, many people look short term and don't factor in that they are likely to live til they are 80 years of age.
What I wonder is how many of the choices people make are made at their own volition, or are socially influenced by their surroundings, especially their digital worlds. Will they be able to overpower their genetic code?
!ENGAGE 20
ENGAGEtokens.Relationships are not easy to grow and maintain, they do take work and a willingness to be open with each other. One thing that does not help in solving relationship or in building them is comparing ones own relationship to that of another couples relationship. Different people different ways to cope with life. The only expert in a relationship are the people involved in what they feel is a healthy relationship.
I would say, the only potential expert in the relationship - as I think that many people are a mess, including myself at times :)
Yeah I guess there really are no real experts in it.
Societies always see a decline when family as a core is no longer a priority. I think that the best way to love someone is to first take good care of yourself in order to be able to also help the other. A relationship where only one person wants to advance while using the other will never last. Grow together or indeed fall apart is the rule. Once personal progress is near zero of course that there is nothing to offer in that relationship. Happy relationships are hard, but they surely deserve the work in order to build a beautiful family and long lasting principles for generations to come.
The move to larger communities slowly weakened families, but we also now have to find a way to act as a global society and maintain personal relationships. I see a world where long-term relationships are out of fashion as a kind of dystopia.
Oh I worry for those kind of days. It will be lonely. Family as a dystopia is definetely concerning
Excellent post and very very relative to me. I have much to say but will send my comment via DM on discord. But your post encapsulates so much of what ive experienced. Particularly recently. Thank you for writing it.
You are welcome :)
I believe that even though the relationship is between two, there are things that should not be lost: like individuality, for example. If at the beginning of the relationship some limits are clear, I don't think that spending time doing things individually can create a conflict. If there is time to be together, time in quantity and quality, there is no reason to question the activities that the other can do. Of course, if we are talking about activities that may be detrimental to the couple, it is normal that there is concern and a need to talk about it. For example, if a man likes to drink in moderation and this does not affect the relationship, I think it should not create displeasure in the couple. By the way, I have a friend who met her husband at a party and he danced a lot. She did not like to dance, so she decided to learn just to share with her husband at parties. Now the two of them even dance at her house. Greetings, @tarazkp!
My question is where is the line? For example, if you and I are in a relationship and I play games an hour a day and you are fine with that. But, after the honeymoon period of the relationship I start increasing the time I play - at what point have I "broken the contract" that you first agreed to?
A happy compromise. Often dancing is one of those things that people don't know they love til they spend time doing it. In some cultures (Finland these days) dancing isn't the norm - so most have never really danced socially. It used to be how people met here though :)
Congratulations @tarazkp! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :
You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOPDo not miss the last post from @hivebuzz: