In the latest Liotes Mission there was a question suggested by one of the community members @shiftrox about how we deal with the frustration when our posts don't get the recognition that they deserve.
I've found this question and the comments to it very interesting. It also showed that many don't realize why the quality of a post and the work invested in it is not necessarily correlated with the reward and interaction that the post generates. I would like to explain the reasons here in this post.
The issue with visibility
When posting content on hive, we have to be aware that there is quite a lot of content that is published next to ours. Every minute, there are posts created somewhere on the globe. On the other hand there are not that many people that go through these posts to find the nice ones.
Only few manual curators
It's difficult to define how many manual curators are active on hive. I would say the number is probably less than 100. These are the people that really try to find the nice posts among all the others for their respective curation projects. For these curators, it's not really possible to go through all the posts published on hive. They will probably limit their search to certain communities or certain tags. Even with their combined effort, the chances are very big that a quality post might be missed.
The whales have their own way to curate
If you expect to get whale upvotes on your content, you must probably wait quite a long time to get them. A big portion of the whales are actually upvoting the content that is already on the trending page. So you probably need to get at least 15 to 20$ worth of post reward to get such upvotes.
Who will upvote and interact with your posts?
When you look at all this, you can understand why there are big chances that your content is going to be missed by curation in general. You might ask how you can get some upvotes and interaction on your posts all the same. The answer is through your network of friends and connections.
To be successful on hive you need to build relationships
If you want to have minimal interaction and upvotes on your posts, you will need to have people that are actively reading them and the best way to do so is if these people have you in their favourites. To get there however, you need to build a relationship with them.
To build relationships there are not hundred different ways. The best way to do it, is to take time to interact with others. To go to their posts, read their content and comment on their posts. You repeat it many times and after a while a kind of relationship will emerge. Of course it works only if you put in some real effort and write meaningful comments. If you just comment without reading, you will never get there because the author will understand whether your read the post or not. If you comment on the same author several times, he will start to know you and the chances are big that he will want to have a look at your posts as well.
We support people we know and like
On hive it's not different from the real world. It's much more likely that we support and help people that we know and like. It means that the more you give, the more you will get back over time. The more you interact with others, the more interaction you will get on your posts.
Once your relation has reached a certain level, it's possible that your friends set you on autovote and little by little your post payouts will grow. Also, when you create good content, your friends might share your content and the chances that a curator finds your post becomes much higher.
Success on hive is not about writing quality content but about building relationships
Once you understand this, you realize that hive is a place where human relations matter above everything and it's these relations that we need to develop and sustain.
For example, it is very important that we give appreciation for every interaction that we receive. When people comment on our posts, we should at least answer these comments and maybe upvote them if we have enough Hive Power.
Another example is that we should own some hive power because the more hive power we have, the more upvotes we can give to our friends. The more hive power you own, the more people will want to be your friend. So make sure that you don't delegate too much of your hive power so that you can give value to your friends and use it to build and sustain your relationships on Hive.
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I agree that success in the meaning of high upvotes is only possible if you know the right people, those with the 'big upvotes' but if it's true it doesn't matter what you write, what your text look like I say: why bother?
Why write yourself, why fight those who use AI and so on?
By the way, I interact a lot, I host a contest and commend, upvote and read each post not once but even 2 to 3 times. This contest only takes me over 20 hours a week!
Guess how many of all those people ever read, commented and/or upvoted me?
🍀❤️
Unfortunately there are some instances where this has become true and I think it's very bad for hive. Effort and quality content should get more rewards than simple posts that have 10 words on them. That's why we should all take part in the process and do some manual upvoting.
To me, it's not about the only ten words. Some people can say more in ten words than others in 1500. A haiku does not count many words but is this bad content? Does repeating the same sentences about 12 times just to reach the minimum of words make a text good?
Most people hate reading, they are not writers plus many do not have access to the internet 24/7.
Each week I read a few entries that might look bad (mainly because of how it is edited but although short the 'story' is good.
Those people should be motivated just like good writers. There are many great storytellers but what is upvoted is mainly the same.
I think it's hard to change that or like you said to find these people. It's time-consuming to search for good content.
Thanks for the talk.
🍀❤️
I don’t have so much Hive power but I always upvote with the little that I have
Kudos for this thoughtful post
Nice one!
You are an good example of good people :)
I think we should all strive to increase our hive power to spread as much love as possible around us :-)
Good post my friend
@achim03
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Thanks for the curation!
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You have written a great and helpful post especially for new users.
I agree with everything you wrote and especially that Hive needs more manual curators but to have them needs more whales to put more effort into curation.
Writing quality content + interacting + writing in the right community are all important elements on Hive!
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@tipu curate
I think that curation is the single most important aspect for this blockchain to work well. It's a difficult job especially when you do it on a daily basis and there is not much rewards for the ones doing it. However, without manual curation the content doesn't really matter anymore because every post has similar chances to get upvotes. We definitely need more manuel curation and I think that it should be on as many shoulders as possible. If each of us are curating only two to three posts every day, it's already a great step and would change the dynamic of hive.
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Brother, I want to keep this post as my Holy Hive Bible hahahaha. You are so right in everything you say, ye s something only us true platform lovers understand. I've arrived a few days late here, but I'm glad to have read you and discover that I'm on the right track despite my "real life" occupations, in fact I'll take the opportunity to send it directly to some people who feel stuck and don't pay much attention to me for being a nascent Dolphin 🐬 Maybe they will give more seriousness to this topic when they read an Orca 😅
I feel very much honoured ;-). Of course we need to adapt the time we can spend according to our other comittments but I think time invested in building relationships is wisely spent :-)
Great tips, Achim!
Only 100 manual curators on Hivw? Hmm, seems kind of low. Or you are referring to manual curators who vote on posts that haven't been voted on before (or not enough to attract at least a little bit of attention, and outside our personal feed)?
It's an estimate but I don't think that there much more than that and it's a pitty because they fullfill one of the most important jobs on hive.
I think something else that is overlooked is time and consistency. It takes time and consistency to be seen, to engage, to build relationships ... I use the wisdom of my farming grandparents to keep up with it all ... Hive is not a platform that yields to people who cannot think and work systematically. There's also the reality that the whales put their money where it gets them a return, so, it becomes a feedback loop for them in terms of what some of them curate.
Consistency is indeed very important. Some people think that posting every day is necessary, I believe that making sure not to have too long breaks between posts is also good enough. We should avoid to disapear for too long...
Engagement is very important. I always reply to and upvote commenters. It is something I learned in the last year or two.
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This is one of the most important habits on hive. If somebody takes the time to read and comment on our content, we should at least answer this comment and maybe even upvote it.
I agree but it is also just as important as commenting on posts read that are upvotes. It lets the writer know the upvotes was not bots curating.
I think this is much-needed information. Especially for new, but talented people who are just getting started here on Hive. Reading this post will give them a better perspective and put things into context.
It will help them to not get discouraged when they battle to get upvotes but maybe they see other posts with huge upvotes by giving them better understanding and knowing what to focus on.
Thank you for sharing this information!
I think that the problem of hive is that everybody speaks about quality content. So when you get started and you produce such content you expect it to work. It's only once we understand how the blockchain really works, that we can put things in context and understand why our posts don't get what they deserve.
I agree with you👍
Well said my friend, well said.
If the number of manual curators are decreasing or the curators are too busy with their offline lives I think they should get more people onboard. A lot of us sleep and wake up on Hive and have enough time to sort out original contents.
It breaks my heart when I see a beautiful content that was written from a user’s heart get little or no support and I see another user’s post with just a picture of a cake with two sentences getting enough votes.
One thing I tell myself and friends is that whenever you get to that point where the little upvote on your posts do not get to you then you’ve gotten the Hive spirit.
What we shouldn't forget is that we are not on a platform that belongs to a company. We all own hive and we all share a responsability to make sure that hive develops in the way we want. So we can all take a step in this direction and look for interesting posts and give them some appreciation.
I've been on Hive for quite a while, even before its existence, I was already on Steemit. I started this account a year ago and I'm resuming the hive, little by little because I know how it works. Beyond good content, Hive works is by contacts, meeting the right people. There is a lot of excellent content every day that misses out on good curation.... And at the same time I see every day authors that because they already have long-established relationships, they get the same great votes every day on each of their posts, even if they don't have a great effort compared to other authors who are new. It is clear that Hive works like real life, you are going to succeed almost 100% is thanks to contacts and relationships. So you have to focus on building those relationships, just as you mention in the post.
I believe that it's a good plan to spend a part of our time with this focus as a constant part of our daily hive activity. Without connections and relationships, we will never really be able to evolve.
Exactly, you have to see Hive as a world in your life, like Ready Player One, I don't know if I can explain myself hahaha. It is a separate universe where we must climb and earn a good reputation, make a name for ourselves in the community and earn the respect of others. It takes work, but at least I see it that way.
Excellent points and I would say you need to engage with others and produce qualilty content to be successful on Hive. If you skip one of them, you will get only half of the results.
Engagement and building relationships, paird with interesting content are the keys to success on hive I believe.
Well said mate, relationships matter on hive as we are a relatively small community. Having said that making an interesting and entertaining post helps too.
Relations only won't give value to bad posts :-). We don't need to produce outstanding content I believe but we should try to share something that others might find useful.
It's the same as it is with real life. Ability does not always equate to success. Networking is far more important than most people realise. We are humans after all.
A lot about hive is just human nature. We want appreciation for who we are and what we do. In life nowadays, not many people are willing or able to give this appreciation. We can do a lot just by commenting some posts I believe.
Your text was perfect! You analyzed several essential points for this subject and I'm also very happy that you liked the theme I suggested.
I believe that one point that really puts people off Hive is this frustration that many times they're going to write something, they're going to put a lot of time and effort into it and sometimes they don't get the value they want, I can say this because of our Brazilian community, we have countless profiles of Brazilians, but the ones who post we can almost count on our fingers, it's always the same faces and that's bad in a way.
These people come to Hive with very high expectations, I believe that web3 is new to many people and when we talk about getting paid per post, they must think it's something easy and instantaneous and unfortunately it's not. This is a point that I've learned and understood better and today when I try to do an onboarding I like to explain everything straight away, because if they stay it's because they really liked it and understood how things work.
Finally, organic engagement is the best way to really grow, the more we can participate and leave a bit of ourselves in each comment and interaction, this certainly makes us stand out in this sea of great content creators, which is why lately I've been focusing a lot on networking, I think it's the healthiest way forward.
Again, thank you very much for mentioning me and it's an honor to be able to help the community in some way! Thank you so much!
I totally agree with that and it has a great side effect. When we try to interact with others we actually give them what they are looking for: attention for their content. By doing what we hope others would do for us, we create a culture where we are there for each other, where we help each other to grow and evolve. This can be magical :-)
You are sharp with your words today, I totally agree with what you said, leaving a comment can be everything a person is waiting for, just an attention and someone's dedication about your post and that can be magical as you said!
Very nice to exchange these ideas with you! A big hug and have a great weekend!
Thanks again for this great idea that generated a lot of thoughts and posts :-). Have a great week-end as well!
I am currently working as a curator for Hivepakistan and also for tipu. I don't limit my curations instead I go for the diversity and try to find those who have worked hard but didn't get enough.
But still many are missed everyday, I know. But if someone is complaining about not getting rewards then they should work on their relationships on hive. The more you are well recognised the more your content will be recognised
It's great that you do the effort to curate content. It's a difficult job but it's very important. It's the individual curators that may find a post or another that is worth upvoting and thereby give some appreciation to the author. Thanks for doing it!
its hard to define quality. can't less agree from what you said about building up relationship.
You are totally right. What is quality content? I believe that if I read something where I learn something or I see a point of view from the author, for me it's already a post worth reading. I tried to define quality content a couple of times and never managed to come up with a definition that I could really stand behind.
well, in the end I prefer to vote posts from someone I like or the post that I like, because they deliver something... which most of us do that too.
cross my finger, I hope oneday someone dare to state out what his/her variables and parameters to judge Post quality and measuing method on how much effort to make them
Without a doubt, it is about building relationships and not getting carried away by the big numbers. And above all, not comparing yourself to anyone, that can only lead to frustration.
When I started blogging on hive, I had very few comments and upvotes inspite of creating content that was not bad I would say. I always remember when @ph1102 came to comment on my posts with the Awesome curation project. This often saved the day and made me stay on Hive :-)
I agree with this, having posted on STEEMIT/HIVE for years now, it's clear those committed and those here for a quick buck.
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Yes, if people look at hive as an atm, then it shouldn't be working for them...
Spot on, Achim! Success on Hive is all about creating and nurturing relationships over time! Writing solidly good posts is important, too, I'd say, but you're right that the relationships that we build wins out even over that! I can speak from direct personal experience that the relationships that we grow here will indeed grow us! 😁 🙏 💚 ✨ 🤙
You are right to point out that relationships alone won't make your day and you still need to write things that bring value to others. In a way, I believe that this is how it should be. We give of our time to support others and then we invest time to bring value to others in order in the long time to generate value for ourselves :-)
Everything I do on Hive, or in my life, is to create MMB (Maximum Mutual Benefit), because I see clearly that we need each other to succeed here, as well as in life. We're all in this together, we rise by lifting others, and together we thrive on Hive! 😁 🙏 💚 ✨ 🤙
It could be painful and frustrating sometimes when you put up a great content and at the end nothing good compared to it comes in reward. Having understand and taking into consideration the reasons for not getting the expected upvote as you have explain, I wish a lot of content creators will find it useful and continue to build a lot of quality relationships on the hive blockchain. I wish others will reblog the post to reach many more as I have done. Thank you for sharing your take on this.
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You are welcome!
We have to find out the curators first. And, then, try to draw their attention.
Posting to the communities backed by whales is also a good option.
Thanks for your suggestions.
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Let's not forget that we are all curators ourselves. We shouldn't just delegate this job to others. We can make a difference with our comments and our upvotes!
Hahaha the hard truth! Totally agree with views mentioned here. I used to tell some people that if they don't read others' content and just only post all day long, why would others bother to read their posts?
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That's exactly it. If we expect others do something and we are not willing to do the same, it seems like we don't really deserve the upvotes 😅
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Without a doubt, this topic should be widely publicized and discussed, as many people end up quickly frustrated when they arrive here, as they imagine that they just have to create a post and that's it... they will be greatly rewarded.
That's why, unfortunately, many give up at the beginning of their journey.
One of the things I usually say is that upvotes are a consequence, as we must get involved first and interact with people. This is the most important thing and try to engage in a community that you identify with and thus build a strong bond.
I really enjoyed your article and I hope more people can be inspired by it. I like themes that arise as a result of interactions, because it is in conversations with other people, in the exchange of knowledge that we acquire interesting ideas.
Oh! I just voted for Liotes Hive-Enginge Witness, because, curiously enough, I couldn't use Keychain... I don't know why, but luckily I managed to vote.
Until later!
I really like when people come up with questions and it triggers a lot of constructive discussion and inspires people to create posts :-). Thanks for the witness vote! It's much appreciated.
I also really like it, especially the fact that we need to bring more involvement to InLeo, as I believe that many who are here still think that the content is just about finance and are afraid to comment on something that is "not in their niche".
But I hope we can overcome this and the more interactions, the better and everyone benefits from it.
It's a truth about things. It's all about relationships here on hive. People have limited time and attention span so it's hard to make people to see your post. If they know you, then they are more likely to open up your post so I think it does make a difference.
If I see three posts on my feed with similar titles and I know one of the authors, it's definitely this post that I will read first...
Engagement is the key and with this, we can build relationships and it matters. Creating content is not everything as we also need to consume the contest.
We shouldn't forget that if we want people to read our stuff, we should also make the effort to read the stuff of others :-)
Very true and good quality post my friend, i am sure you will get the visibility it deserves @achim03
All the curations i do are manual regardless of for a project or not but i do not have time to check all the posts being created.
Also before curating a post we have to check it is a real account, not duplicated or stolen in some way which makes the process even longer than just looking for quality posts even.
It is what it is at the end of the day a friendly manner can go a long way.
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Doing curation in a good and responsible manner is probably one of the most difficult and least valued jobs on hive. But it's very important and I congratulate anybody who takes the time upon himself to do it!
Yes, that's important, but not the only thing.
If you have a lot of relations but your posts are not good, then it doesn't work either :-)
Of course, but that's not what I meant.
I meant more that if a post gets a lot of attention, it must get noticed by one of the bigger curatorial guilds (appreciator, qurator, curangel, curie, for example) and then it pulls a whole column behind it. The big curatorial guilds work like that. Otherwise, the post is read only by the curator I think, only then once a day or once a week they publish all the curated content.
On the other hand, for example, I post videos that are not for every ear, but I still think it's important from a documentation and archiving point of view. Anyone else rarely sees the point of it. And I don't even think of it as something special, it's just what I do as a blogger.
I just want to point out two views of how it works (at least as far as I can see)
Quality content is a broader debate, it's very complex to assess what quality content is if you're already playing around with the term. It's a very elusive concept, mostly depending on the point of view you're looking from.
Yes, I believe we need less delegations and more manual curation. I try my best to do so, keeping almost all my voting power for my own curating efforts :))
And, obiously, each author should find the communities that suits them the best and engage within them. That's both the key to personal and network success in the long term.
Unfortunately, I see a lot of small users delegating the big majority of their stake to other projects. This only leads to a centralisation of curation and even more responsibility to the small number of manuel curators out there.
Precisely :) The more HP you have, the more responsibility you feel :)
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Here are some handy links for delegations: 100HP, 250HP, 500HP, 1000HP.
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Thanks for the curation!
Manual cursteion is the best at least we get to learn and see how the user is contributing.
Manuel curation is the ingredient that makes this blockchain stand out but it's a difficult job :-)
It is not difficult, if you have the time and interest to do....
A very nice one.
I've asked this question many times and the answers you dropped here are the exact solution.
It's majorly on building connections.
It's not easy to do, especially those of us that are lazy on Engagement (I'm No.1 🥹), but it's a thing that one must do.
Thank you for this 👏👏
It's way easier to just produce content and hope that somebody will see it but unfortunately it doesn't work and engagement and relationships are really necessary to go forward on hive.
Yeah,.
Thank you!
So this is my comment version 2 since I ereased the first after seeing your comment in my post lol. Just to avoid dups… well I think yoy wrote much and much more information that I was not thinking about when I wrote my post! It is a great analysis about the situation and for me one of the biggests cons of hive are there. It was a great question indeed by shiftrox it gave the opportunity for me , you and maybe other people to think and shout a bit… maybe things can get better even if we start in small group of people.
A lot of people on hive always wait for somebody else to implement what they are looking for. The great thing of hive is that it belongs to everyone of us and we can actively contribute to make hive a better place. This is the reason why with the liotes project we started the ourpick curation program. We want to help discover some of the posts that are worth pointing out and reading.
I have been enjoying liotes because of that! the engagement that you guys are creating is amazing! I would join any initiative with that goal, like you saw in my post it is aligned with my goals.
If only many whales can be supporting great and quality content, it will have been great and help a lot of user
Curating content is a very difficult job. I know it because I do it every day and it takes a lot of time. I can understand that after a while whales are bored of the job and prefer to delegate it to others. I think we have to show the way. If each of us is just reading two to three posts every day and giving nice comments, it will bring a lot of joy to authors.
This is a very informative and educative post. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for stopping by!
Wow I appreciate it. It's nice
Thanks!
Is really frustrating when we don't get upvote. All that you said is correct and the most important is engagement
Engagement and relationships are really the key to success on hive
You have said it all most especially that issue of visibility and this is making a lot of people who are creating quality content to get discouraged. In fact I have come to discover that it has been persistent which is not supposed to be so. Probably there should be a algorithm to help
Hive is not a centralised platform where somebody could come up with an algorithm. We all have a responsability to bring value to others through our personal curation efforts.
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Your points are clear and understandable. I'll continue to engage on posts until I get the recognition I require. Hive is really a big space, it falls in one's hand to turn it into an autonomous community for their benefits.