Voter apathy - a problem for DPoS

in LeoFinance3 days ago (edited)

As you may be familiar with by now, the HIVE protocol uses a Delegated Proof Of Stake (DPoS) consensus mechanism. This means that everybody who wants to participate in governance can do so by using their staked HIVE, which is referred to as Hive Power, and using it to vote for block producers also known as witnesses. The more significant your holding, the more say you have on who gets to be an approved block validator.

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Users on the network can acquire $HIVE to participate in governance in several different ways.

Purchase on exchanges

The most common way for users to acquire cryptocurrency is through centralized exchanges. Privately owned and operated businesses that have completed the regulatory requirements of the government where they operate in order to provide its users with a marketplace to exchange fiat for cryptocurrency or assets from one blockchain to another.

At the time of writing, exchanges that list Hive include:

I bet that's more than you thought, right?

Exchanges are a great way to get started in cryptocurrency, but they have 2 very clear downsides:

  1. They require you to send documentation like ID, proof of residence and sometimes bank information
  2. They can seize your funds depending on their internal policies or if required by the authorities.

The better options, in my opinion, are non-KYC, peer to peer options. here are some.

Exchanging work for HIVE

Hive has a vibrant and very talented community. If you can think of a skill that might be valuable to someone else such as programming, editing, consulting, sales, etc. You can exchange that skill for HIVE. There are marketplaces such as Open Genie where you can search for people looking to hire freelancers with different skills.

Swap options

There's a web app developed by Brian Of London called v4v.app. It's functionality is quite simple, but very powerful. As you might be able to deduce by it's logo which is an intertwined Bitcoin Lightning and Hive symbols, it's main purpose is to swap Lightning BTC to HIVE and back.

Basically, our friend and trusted Hivean, Brian is running both a Lightning network Node as well as an account that holds HIVE and HBD. The way it works is the user can

  1. Scan a Lightning invoice QR
  2. Spend HBD or HIVE
  3. the app converts it to BTC and the merchant or person who created the invoice will receive BTC.

This works the other way around too. So the Hivean can generate a Lightning QR, person with Lightning wallet can pay it and the Hivean receives HIVE in their wallet.

Magic.

Use a decentralized exchange

A more recent option that has come to the scene is LEODEX. A completely decentralized, multi-chain DEX that harnesses the power of the Maya protocol to create liquidity pools as well as non-KYC swaps. I'll make a video about this soon.

Ok, now that you have some options, lets get back to the main topic os this post which is voting. Particularly lack of voting or voter apathy.

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Voter apathy

Now, while it is true that everybody has the ability to acquire Hive Power and vote for witnesses as well as DAO proposals, not everybody does so on a regular basis. And the reason for this is exactly the same as with in-real-life politics, such as electing a member of congress. You might pay attention to what this representative says and does during the campaign to get votes, but it's very difficult to keep up with everything he/she is doing during his tenure like political alliances, lobbying and even game mechanics that occur around this elected representative.

Remember there is also a huge monetary incentive in a protocol like this. Right now, Hive's market cap is close to $160 Million with $1 bn in trading volume on peak days. By crypto standards this might seem small, but if you think of it as a business, you'll realize that it's quite a lot of money and where there's money, there's an incentive to make a profit.

Could it be possible that without a large number of engaged users, the network might get skewed in the direction of a few large stake holders?

Could it be possible that witnesses could organize into "cartels" by concentrating the role of validation in a smaller number of holders, thereby making the protocol less decentralized and open to attacks?

This is why I consider it to be extremely important to grow your Hive Power and use it for governance. We don't have to agree with everybody on the network, but if we care about the health and resilience of the protocol, we must build our stake and vote for witnesses that are behaving in accordance with our values. Check your witness and DHF votes regularly and update them if they are not giving you the necessary feedback.


References for this post:

QA session with Andreas Antonopolous:

Pros and Cons of DPoS consensus model by Emily Maxie

Posted Using INLEO

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Could it be possible that witnesses could organize into "cartels" by concentrating the role of validation in a smaller number of holders, thereby making the protocol less decentralized and open to attacks?

I was thinking about exactly this a few days ago... And these don't have to be witnesses, but rather big whale accounts with a lot of stake... I was thinking about DHF proposals and whale accounts creating their proposals... When we have more and more "whale-driven" proposals, we have more and more "favor-voting" happening in the background... it happens everywhere, it's in our human blood... and when you once try the sweet, free h(m)oney, you can't stop asking for more... When you live in corrupted countries, you know how it works... 😂 More money is spent on bribing, and less on actual investing and producing... No competition, etc.

That's why it's important what you said... to have more people who grow their stake and participate in governance... It's OK to have a different opinion... It's OK to say NO to some proposals... It's OK to be different... It's not personal!


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What a great comment!

One of my focuses for this year and probably the coming years is to tell others about the importance of building a voice through our stake. Just like in the real life example I shared about our politicians, it won't be everybody, but we can have enough orcas out there with enough diversity in personalities, friends, interests, that wealth is not concentrated in a single spot or with a single group. There should also be enough orcas out there to outweigh any single whale. Again, to balance the power.

On the other point about DHF, I keep thinking that there's a way to eliminate the risk of this large h(m)oney pot being the cause for "favor-voting" and such. The solution is to eliminate the h(m)oney pot. Again, with enough voting power and involved citizens, we might be able to pass a burn proposal.

It is definitely important. We get to decide which witnesses and proposals get paid. I've had people chasing my vote. The big players tend to have the key vote, but the smaller accounts can add up. For witnesses you can set a proxy you trust to vote for you. I review my votes periodically.

I might make an explainer on how to set up a proxy. Every HP counts towards protecting this protocol.

Not sure that the proxy vote would solve the issue... I noticed some huge proxy votes on some "influencer" accounts... It's just centralizing the votes, and very rarely, people pick "small Hivians" as a proxy...
So, maybe it's better to NOT VOTE than to GIVE YOUR VOTING RIGHTS to someone that will use it badly... 😃

But, the proxy voting is built in the chain, so it is what it is... :)

What would be interesting to see is downvoting the proposals... like in SPlinterlands... In that way, at the situation what is happening right now, some good proposals wouldn't pay the price for "trade (voting) wars" 😃

"small hiveans" usually don't care much about protecting the protocol. I think the strongest play is to grow in number of orcas that can make up for non-voting small accounts and at the same time counter-balance the voting power of whales.

What would be interesting to see is downvoting the proposals

Yes! Agreed. This needs to be common practice.

I should review as well. Good idea. I wish i was an orca...
I don't have much else to say, but I'm always looking and listening.

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Check Witness update, this is a good reminder. By the way just add a exchanger which trading Hive, Indodax, regional exchanger in ASEAN.

Thanks for the feedback! added Indodax. I cannot access due to my location, but please check I got it from Coingecko. Please let me know if this is the correct link.

That is correct, Tokocrypto also correct. Tokocrypto is owned by Binance, its for loval Indonesian since Binance banned with the Indonesia government , Binance established Tokocrypto for Indonesia.

Thanks for voting for witnesses! This is the way!

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In reality PoS can be flawed and I think that the flaw is being exploited especially by those who can actually make powerful connections with the whales. In reality, we can go PoW but then the network will still be open for exploitation by those who don't care about having skin in the game. This way, the network will suffer big time.
In reality, Hive needs skin in the game, but then people with skin can completely shut out those who might genuinely care about the ecosystem but don't have enough skin to prove this.

Those who care about the network need skin in the game. Simple as that. You can acquire HIVE through work; there's no need to be rich. Every small amount of HP counts.

Voter apathy is a potential risk, which is why I encourage all Hive citizens to power up and participate in governance.

What a wealth of information! I'm going to do more research and see if any of these things are possible to do in the vicinity of D.C.

Voting is done on-chain regardless of jurisdiction. Acquiring HIVE peer-tp-peer, through a DEX such as LEODEX or @v4vapp can also be done online without regards to jurisdiction.

But why do they ask on tax questions how much if any I made and bought and sold from fiat?
I feel like there is no way to not cross that red tape but they still have no right asking that.
Basically how do i jump that barrier

Don't use fiat or the banking system to buy cryptocurrency and nobody can tax you. Stay digital.

  • Acquire HIVE p2p
  • Acquire HIVE through DEX like LEODEX
  • Acquire HIVE via v4vapp

Once you do that, get out and vote. Voting is the main topic of this post.

Aha!
I've always lived by the no Fiat in or out rule
But was always curious...

It will be so nice if bybit list hive, am hoping to write an email to them as a suggestion, hopefully they will abide to it

I mentioned several other ways of acquiring HIVE that don't require an exchange. What are your thoughts on the importance of participating in governance?

We definitely go far when we work together so am in full support of that , however I've read some india post in hive complaining bitterly that the only way they can get hive is through high cost of an exchange.

Everyday, I see the importance of growing my Hive power
The whales here are whales because of Hive power but sometimes, I always think I may not be a whale.
Someone like me earns very low and I may not be able to buy but no matter what, I’ll keep acquiring the little I can

You don't have to be a whale in order to vote. Every single HP counts. Earn and buy what you can. The important thing is to vote for witnesses and DHF proposals.

I notice you don't vote:
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I’ll do that soon. Thanks

That's great! I might consider giving you some upvotes when you do :)

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