Theycallmedan still beating the drum.
Guy is on a never-ending warpath I tell ya. The topic of premines comes up quite often. As it should. People in crypto don't understand the heinously centralized threat that premined tokens facilitate and the inherent greed of the founders that it conveys. Surprising considering they seem to understand that "centralization bad" but then turn a blind eye to things like the founders owning 50% of all the tokens (and in many cases 95% of the liquidity). Oops!
OP Tweet
Classic Dan tweet
So why did I take this moment to play Devil's Advocate like a little bitch? lol man, couldn't tell ya. I swear I'm annoying myself these days. Can't turn it off I guess!
Woof, time to parse this garbage.
Okay so Satoshi Nakamoto was the "founder" of Bitcoin. But Satoshi Nakamoto is an anonymous entity. Thus there are scenarios out there (unlikely ones) where Bitcoin has no founder because "Satoshi Nakamoto" was really the forward face of an underground decentralized organization, and thus Bitcoin had no founder and came about organically in the shadows.
Doesn't really matter how unlikely that is: we can't say that Bitcoin has a founder when the founding entity is anonymous. I always joke that it was aliens saving us from exterminating ourselves.
Damn it, Bob, you were supposed to let them sink or swim on your own!
But I like the funny monkeys!
You heard it here first: Bob the alien is Satoshi.
Hmmmmmm, what else?
Right, the "rebrand". I think it's weird to say that Hive doesn't have a founder because if we actually won the hostile takeover and were still called "Steem" we wouldn't dare make that claim. The only thing that is different, is the brand, and branding is an irrelevant WEB2 thing in my opinion. Doesn't matter what we call ourselves. The community that used to be called Steem is now called Hive, and the only thing that changed during that transition was the brand name and forking the ninjamine into the dev fund, which was a huge mistake if you recall me saying so:
Fuck: Never Send Humans To Do A Hobbit's Job.
There was absolutely no reason to not fork the ninjamine to @null. Zero. If we need money for development, we could have simply printed it out of thin air. All the value of the Hive token exists as exit liquidity on the exchanges to other tokens. Allowing 80M coins to just sit around is nothing but a 100% threat to anyone who doesn't control those tokens. We know this better than anyone else. We did not get rid of the ninjamine like we should have, we moved it, and now people on this network vie for control of it hoping to not get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
But I'm getting sidetracked and I need to stop.
This is a WEB2 vs WEB3 issue. The definition of something within WEB2 could mean exactly the opposite in WEB3, and we see the manipulations of these things all the time within crypto.
For example, saying Hive doesn't have a founder is WEB2 logic. Within legacy systems, Hive is a new network, new brand, new token. Everything is different. It's exactly the opposite with WEB3 logic. Same community. Same token. Same code. Same network. Same infrastructure. Nothing has changed.
I explained all of this in great detail in May 2020.
Playing Devil's Advocate: Why Steem HF23 is NOT THEFT!
Flip-Flop Time: Steem HF23 is Now Theft
The difference between WEB2 and WEB3 is vast.
The core difference is that in WEB2 one can own data (called Intellectual Property IP), and in WEB3 data can not be owned and everything is open source and collaborative. In WEB2, the value comes from the patents and authoritarian force of the police state. In WEB3, value comes directly from the communities and the ability to profit without actually needing to capture value from the products produced; the token and network capture the value automatically and funnel value into everyone's pockets.
Steem forking away tokens from the whales was only theft as defined by WEB2 rules and the idea that third-party institutions are in control. According the WEB3, anything the community comes to consensus about is the law. Whether those laws are healthy and just is another argument, but be careful arguing these things within an abundance environment. Calling out a community and accusing them being greedy thieves within an abundance economy? That just going to make yourself look greedy because there is money everywhere. We'll get there soon enough. It's a very awkward transition phase
60% DNA shared with a banana
Just like 60% of our DNA is an identical copy of a banana (all life has the same core building blocks) so to does all of crypto share a huge amount of DNA with Bitcoin. Can we really say Hive doesn't have a founder when it clearly would not exist if Bitcoin doesn't exist? Again, another thought experiment that I could easily get sidetracked on for another hour, so I won't.
We are the orphaned children of Larimer
And in a way it's actually kind of interesting how this is all playing out. Hive is grizzled as hell and we are entering this new stage of abundance with eyes wide open. Again, to say we don't have a founder? Questionable. That's certainly not how people from the outside looking in will see it. We need to be careful of the perceptions of others, even if they are wrong. Perception is reality.
Personally I think Hive is going to become something that Larimer becomes very surprised by. He left us in what, 2017? He left us thinking this was a failed state, and it very well may grow into something that nobody anticipated. Also I'm excited to share this post I wrote in 2018 that I forgot about:
Taking Bets On When @Dan Leaves EOS
kek, get it? Because he's already left :D
Troll energy strong today.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Hive simp.
Hive is awesome. We get none of the accolades and are constantly ignored for the exact niche we provide. Eventually something is going to happen where it is impossible to ignore us because we can do the thing and nobody else can. Only a matter of time at this point.
Does any of this matter?
LOL, course not... having a founder or not is just semantics. It's a badge of honor we gave ourselves after a traumatic experience. It doesn't matter if we have a founder or not. Doesn't matter what happened in the past. What matters is the current state and where we are headed into the future.
That being said it is very important to note that the fact that we can even make the argument in the first place (Hive has no founder) is a very important dynamic. Most (all?) other projects can't even try to pretend. They have a founder, and more importantly, they have a premine that controls everything (at least the input and output of value via liquidity pools, which is the biggest thing).
One-two punch
Just as I was finishing up this post I get hit hard by these arguments. I'm tapping out. These are all good points.
At the end of the day it's easy to get sidetracked by small details that simply do not matter. Hive does indeed have a bit of a grassroots movement at the core of the brand. We are way more decentralized than many are willing to give us credit, to the point of being buried under a hundred other garbage VC projects that aren't gonna go anywhere.
Conclusion
It's very important to note that we haven't even come close to seeing the fallout that occurs from premines and the founders that wield them. It's a highly traumatizing experience. One that Hive has already suffered. When people realize this they'll come to Hive for fear of suffering it on another network that still has a premine and founder in play. Again, doesn't matter so much if we have a founder or not, but if they are actually in control of things. On Hive, they aren't. Good times.
The battle rages on. Hive fights for a place at the table with the big boys. We'll get there soon enough. The longer it takes the more satisfying the victory will be.
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Steemit was the parents, then Hive grew up and left home.
Actually the story is more like this:
Ned and Dan gave birth to us, but then Dan split and left us with Ned, the irresponsible parent, when we were toddlers. Ned kept telling us that he would put food (SMTs) on the table soon, but never delivered. When we called him on his shit, he had a mental breakdown and put the babysitter, Eli, in charge to deal with us while he went into the back room and played the guitar. Ned then converted our home into the House of the Rising Sun, with us getting fucked over on the nightly. Justin tried to burn the house down with us inside, but we were able to escape through the back when he wasn’t looking and moved into our own place.
Terrible childhood
lol, that's a better story than most movies have these days :)))
Somebody’s gotta publish this on all Hive Bio’s online 🤣. Spot on and approved 🙌
Hilarious this is awesome
😃 Great bio.
That is incredible
While Hive is standing at 2.4M users even though that is just a stat and the numbers might lie, I think there are great times ahead of us that will push the number of users higher and higher. And at some point, the world cannot ignore Hive anymore and will recognize its merits and value.
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Yea hive time is coming a time when 1 hive will be worth over 100$
You made it through all this content without a Darth Vader MEME, impressive.
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Even the universe seems to be having a founder and everything "runs so smooth", so what's wrong with Hive having one(or more). I guess blocktrades is "more founder than others" for Hive. It's curious that although many knew about the ninja-mined STEEM stake they were still calling it decentralized.
Let's just credit all the people that pissed off our devs to work their assess off in creating what is now called the Hive chain today.
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I just have to share my appreciation for the Nuklear Power snippets. Red Mage is the fucking best.
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was womdering if youd notice
Rage mage tickled me so hard
I !love the idea that the founders of Bitcoin are aliens. Kudos to those aliens who gave their best to save us from destroying ourselves.
!LOLZ
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@rzc24-nftbbg(1/1) gave you LUV.
tools | wallet | discord | community | <><
HiveBuzz.me NFT for Peace
Remember when Steem under JSun hired a whole team to try and convince us everything would be fine? Doin a bunch of goin live and having their Q&As... Wonder what happened to that team. LoL. Hired to try and save a sinking ship... Just odd. I could never do that role.
Outstanding article and I am in complete agreement with you on most points You always have a bit of a twist on specific topics. I like to hear those types of "voices in the wilderness" that do not always follow the popularI line.
A man with his own mind, a rare thing to find these days.
Hive... I AM Your Father!
This is absolutely funny, but looks like someone is claiming to be the Father of hive here
The quest for founders of a crypto in some cases is valid at least to know those behind the project but looking for a single individual does not make much Sense but the community, the team behind the project is most important Hive is battling with the big boys same as any adult would do within the peer group and finally have his/her stay in the community busy of men. Hive as an offspring of steemit is making its parent very proud.
I think it's easy to get sidetracked by semantic nitpicking.
What constitutes "a founder?" And IF/WHEN there is "a founder," what are they the founder of?
We could easily argue that Dan Larimer is the "Founder," based on being the spark that dreamed up the Graphene blockchain infrastructure. That means taking a "point of origin" approach.
But we could also say that whatever person/entity/group brought an idea into functional applied existence is the founder.
OR whatever group of people/organizations created the current iteration/variation of something... like Hive.
Does having "ownership" make someone a founder? We generally don't credit venture capitalists with being "founders;" the people they are funding are "founders." Or are they?
That all becomes a semantic and logical quagmire in no time at all, right?
Can anything even be TRULY decentralized? Is Hive? Consider the people who own Hive tokens, but have not voted for witness?
Seems to me that no matter how much we want any one concept in this world to have a specific meaning *(i.e. founder, decentralized, etc.), as soon as we take a long hard look under the hood, it turns into a sort of "hybrid" of different ideas.
Cool article, though!
=^..^=
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Hello edicted
Nice to read your article once again.
Though I want say something.If hive wanna grow, the question "who is the founder?" is not importat.The important question is
"Is anyone holding maximum number of stakes?"
If not, the second question"are the maximum stakeholders connected to each other?"
If the answer is no "Where is the proof?"
We must grow in near future but people outside hive who gonna join us, must have the above questions. We need to be ready with answer and proof. We can't say just "all are in open source".
I am 5 months' young kid, I had the question in my mind before joining hive and trying to get all the answer. I am pretty good with that. Feel good.
Thanks for sharing your thought.Imressive one.
I agree that the ninja mined tokens should have been sent to @null. Those tokens are still haunting our community to this day.
Now I understand the similarities between Steem and Hive 🙂. I just never worry about the Hive history.
great points
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Hive was definately founded by a group of people who dealt with the technical/hardware/software requirements of forking steem so it does have founders. Founders however often have no involvement in the day to day running of their creations and that is clearly the case here at hive as the community control the blockchain. Founder != controller/owner.
!pizza
Of course we have a founder, it's Ned hair.
Honestly this as answered some Long time question I do have, most especially for those of us who don't know about stemit at all
who was the White Knight right before the Hardfork?
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Why not just go straight to the top, and dine with royalty?
I get why some places do a premine, but it should never be so big that it gives the founders that type of control.
This post has been manually curated by the VYB curation project
whoever was the 1st person to think of Forking into Hive was the Founder
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Dude! I totally thought aliens must have created bitcoin. Like they didn't accomplish creating a DLT, solving the BGP from 1999-2008? You put so much care in your posts and make everything concise to understand. My friends already ask me if I read @edicted latest post, lol. I used to think that Larimer starts a project and leaves it and can't finish what he started. When I see the moderators censoring(excuse me moderating) their communities through muting posts as they please due to their personal issues and according to their pontifical narratives I get deterred by some serious birdbrains when I read their reasons and comments justifying it with illogical statements. Evidently incognisant about blockchain, I have seen so many newbies and their efforts obliterated before they even started due to our rather nepotistical ties and partially also due to our previous on boarding mechanisms. I don't think it's a bad thing, don't get me wrong. I can just imagine a dPoS social class system and I wonder if the majority stakeholders on top that enjoy the bootlicking /whales will be responsible, remain idealistically motivated about liberty and freedom without turning into narcissists that get corrupted by such power. I'd like to think that artists, publishers and talented content creators actually enjoy success here and I don't mean monetary? I hope this community will prevail and it's positive aspirations as well as the core values that drive it's growth. I think we are more than an experiment for democratising and decentralising publications, curation with direct attention and what social media could be. We are at the forefront or what it means to publish on the blockchain. I wonder if this is the best it can get? But are we truly decentralising the value of an atypical opinion by letting the ones decide who actually had the FIAT funds to stake?