Let's be honest
It is painfully obnoxious that Hive isn't in the top 100 market cap. Like, come on, we deserve to be there. I mean just look at all the garbage that sits as a placeholder until the real ones come around. It's just comical at this point.
I mean please, that's hilarious.
Remember how Terra Luna "crashed to zero"? Yes well apparently when something crashes to zero it can still have a market cap that's over three times as big as Hive. Pretty funny honestly. Ah, the power of dumb and greedy institutional money combined with overzealous communities.
And then at #100 we have Coinbase Wrapped Staked ETH. So simply a centralized derivative of ETH that only exists on Coinbase is once again three times our entire market cap. Pretty wild honestly.
We got trust wallet token in there and Huobi (and KuCoin and LEO), which again is just kind of funny to see random exchange tokens that are very obviously cash grabs with zero utility sitting in the top 100. At least with tokens like dYdX or Uniswap or Rune it makes a lot more sense to have a coin because the exchange is actually decentralized and exists on-chain rather than being funneled through some blatant centralized agent that scoops 100% of all trading fees.
We can see BitTorrent token there as well... a token that was created well before we even knew that Justin Sun was a rampaging dumpster fire. I've actually written multiple posts on-chain about how exciting it was to see the BitTorrent token. What have they done since then? Well obviously nothing because legit no one on Hive is using or talking about the protocol in any capacity (good or bad).
Even greater than hate: indifference is the ultimate indicator of complete systemic failure across the board.
See that even Taylor Swift agrees.
Then there are all the potentially legitimate projects in the top 100 that seem like a good idea but haven't actually done anything yet. For example VeChain & Filecoin. Yes, it seems like a good idea to put data on the blockchain or to use blockchain to track products in the real world, but the devil is in the details and the incentives of these networks actually don't align in a way that creates a working product that the world actually wants to adopt.
There's also no supply shortage of meme tokens in the top 100. Imagine being a Bitcoin Cash moonboy at #18 and seeing god forsaken Shiba Inu at rank #17. lol ouch! Farther down the list we see Apecoin with x4 the MC of Hive, and of course the ultimate and original memecoin Doge towers above them all with an $8.7 BILLION dollar market cap. heh. It's funny to think that Hive needs to x85 just to catch up to Doge of all things.
Then come the gaming tokens like Axie Infinity, Decentraland, and more generically Avalanche. Wanna know how I know all these products are hammered dogshit? Because I'm a hardcore gamer that just finished a 569 hour game of Factorio and I'm sitting here writing this post instead of creating content for a gaming platform that knows how to actually leverage decentralized creation and ownership. Doesn't really get more clear-cut than that. Legitimate crypto products don't need to advertise or market themselves. Their utility alone should easily be enough to make them go viral. But I digress.
Legitimate crypto products don't need to advertise or market themselves. Their utility alone should easily be enough to make them go viral.
Oops
So what happens when we retrospectively apply that same logic back on the Hive network? Ah well it basically just proves that while we may be on the cusp of greatness, we haven't actually done anything to truly merit a breakout by sheer force of will. In fact it could be argued that no cryptocurrency has achieved such a feat except maybe Bitcoin. Everything else is simply trading based on rampant speculation. And even in the case of Bitcoin the argument will not be fully validated until dozens of banks, governments, other institutions are utilizing it (seemingly against their will).
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
Stablecoins!
Hey hey let's not forget about the ultimate shitcoins: the ones pegged to assets inside a fractional reserve system. We got Tether and USDC in the top ten alone. Then comes Dai and TrueUSD. Used to be an argument could be made that Dai was decentralized. Now a huge portion of the underlying collateral is USDC. Oops. Let's wrap a derivative inside a derivative inside a derivative and see what happens. I'm sure it will be fine.
Hilariously enough it doesn't stop there. We got BinanceUSD under extreme fire from regulators and yet still has over two billion dollars. We've got the PAX dollar and even shit-ass USDD compliments of Justin Sun... which means Sun has at least 3 coins in the top 100 that I know of. lol.
Hm there's also a token here called FRAX which I've never heard of that is an algo stable coin. Don't know how it works, and don't care! Same story for the dozens of other tokens in the top 100 that I've never heard of or care to find out. I don't need to be wasting my time trying to keep up with the next new fad. This isn't 2018 anymore. I'm a Bitcoin and Hive maximalist now. These things happen.
And then there's the one last elephant in the room we call EOS. Current market cap x6 higher than Hive... but also worth x23 less than it was during the ICO phase: when it was nothing but a worthless placeholder on Ethereum and the main-net didn't even exist. Hilarious.
What an embarrassing project. Can you imagine? Runs off to fix all the problems of the previous network only to create something that was even more prone to failure. EOS had infinite funding. They did not get sucker-punched by a punk vulture capitalist billionaire. And yet I feel like we are still in much much better positioning than EOS at this point. Pretty crazy honestly.
Regardless of all that, considering the competition, it's pretty obvious that EOS deserves to be in the top 100 and I wish them all the best on their journey. I do not envy that community considering they probably aren't going to get anywhere until they fork Block.One into oblivion. Good luck with the hostile takeover, friends.
So Hive has to pull an x3 while the market stands still just to get back into the top 100. In all likelihood such a thing would happen during a bull market so the move would have to be exponentially more pronounced than that, at least when measuring against USD.
For a while there during the 2021 bull market things were looking pretty promising. We pushed our way to about rank #180 before falling back down to our seemingly standard level of #220. Don't even get me started on rank 100-200. It's basically just no-man's-land with a handful of scattered promising projects and everything else simply has-beens from previous bull runs.
Yes, dash is indeed top 200 now.
Hilariously enough it's also worth pointing out that even though DASH has crashed from rank #7 to rank #106 over the last 7 years, the token price is still worth double what it was back then. From here it becomes a matter of perspective. Is that a failed investment? Because if we compare it to the stock market over the last 7 years it's actually a pretty good investment.
So it doesn't really matter than Dash lost a hundred ranks on the market cap. A rising tide lifts all ships. Doesn't matter of Hive sits at rank #220 forever if crypto as a whole decides to go x1000. An x1000 on Hive can change the world even at rank #220.
This brings us back to the theme of none of these networks being in competition with each other. This is not a zero-sum game. There is no rule that says we can't all be winners. Economies are largely collaborative, especially permissionless ones like crypto. Both sides are supposed to gain when a trade agreement is made.
While getting into the top 100 and beyond would be nice and get us some more attention within the attention economy, there are still plenty of other ways to go about getting noticed and making ourselves heard.
It's also quite noteworthy that even when Steem was rank #8 in 2016 the token price was only 45 cents and the market cap was only $73M. Hive's current market cap is higher than that, and while the current token price of the network is only 30 cents it's still quite obvious that anyone who was involved back then should still be in the green today. In fact when we add the price of Hive to Steem we can see that it equals around 47 cents, which accounts for the hostile takeover and resulting Hive airdrop.
Once the yield is calculated for curation and HP interest rate it's a pretty healthy profit. Certainly didn't outperform Bitcoin but that's beside the point. It's actually pretty unbelievable that a network that experienced so much hardship could still be in the green after everything that went down. Impressive.
Unfortunately the days of being able to say "this is a great time to accumulate" are long gone. Nobody wants to hear things like "buy the dip" or "soon™". On the flip side it's nice that it looks like we aren't going to bottom out at that dreadful 10-15 cent level, but also we aren't out of the woods yet. 2020 was a pretty boring year for alts (except for the degen DEFI stuff) and 2024 might be largely the same considering the current economic climate combined with the 4-year halving cycle.
Conclusion
The crypto market cap rankings can be quite deceiving. Not only is market cap a very flawed way to measure value, but also this number gives us zero indication as to the network having any fundamental value or staying power whatsoever.
I know for a fact that the Hive community has staying power, can't say the same for the vast majority of tokens I'm seeing in the top 100. It's only a matter of time before a lot of these networks drop like flies; same as their predecessors. Not that we should wish for such things to happen, only that they will and there's nothing we can do about it.
The more successful networks exist in crypto the better. These are cooperative networks, and the false competition that is constantly projected onto them is fueled by nothing but a greed and scarcity based mindset. We would do well to evolve past such toxic and outdated modes of analysis.
Posted Using LeoFinance Alpha
When Steem was fresh in 2016 it had great promise in a less crowded field of cryptos. Social media was then, and is now, the largest industry in the world, and Steem was practically the only player in that field. But the plutocratic governance mechanism enabled censorial stakes to eliminate users, in a variety of attempts to shape narrative, and focus rewards (into their wallets). The bidbots put paid to Steem's promise, an awesome showcase of the flaws of a plutocracy that has gained us two new oligarchs, Wolfie and Marky.
The conquest of Steem and the creation of Hive were the fulfillment of the hazards of plutocracy demonstrated above, and the history of hard forks hasn't changed the fundamental failure of plutocratic governance to provide a great censorship resistant social media platform. We have a social media platform, and we're using it right now, but I'm donating 25% of my rewards to resist censorship for reasons other than spam, scams, or plagiarism and promote other creators. I kick down 5% of my author rewards to each of three creators (@logiczombie, @baah, and @por500bolos) that produce valuable content, do not spam, have never scammed, and cannot get a satoshi from comments or posts on Hive today because they're all flagged to zero. That is a sign that Hive isn't the social media platform it should be.
The initial claim to fame of the platform was censorship resistance. I am a true believer in that feature to drive a platform to success because everyone wants to be able to hear information they desire to know, and to speak their understanding. No one wants to be censored, and in 2016 censorship was already a blight on the Western world. Today it is much worse. The Twatter files have resulted in lawsuit against the USG for coercing 'private' social media companies (strangely all being initially funded in part by InQtel, the investment arm of the CIA) illegally to censor Americans, whom are specifically protected in the First Amendment to the Constitution, that is the charter defining the limits of power of the USG.
Today I hear that Musk is considering making Twatter paywalled in order to counter bots, but the bots that don't create nominal income to afford any potential paywall that leaves Twatter any users at all are crude and easy to ban anyway. Not that I care about Twatter, but it still has many users despite Musk failing to turn it into a free speech haven as he said he would, and that very (false) claim illustrates that market in social media for censorship resistance.
Just yesterday I read that the Online Safety Act just passed in the UK and will soon become law. This will either cut the UK off from social media platforms, or those platforms will conform to this law in order to retain UK users. Other edge cases exist. Exceptions to the rule always do. Censorship resistance becomes more valuable by the day, and Hive is dodging that mass adoption a decentralized censorship resistant social media platform would enjoy like OJ Simpson dodged tackles.
The best part of Hive isn't it's token. It's the use case. Social media, despite it's increasing degradation across the world, remains the largest industry on the planet. It's a crying shame Hive hasn't been able to fork up actual censorship resistance to tap that market begging for the functional application of the primary use case of the token. We even have a decentralized blockchain that prevents content from being eliminated from the platform (as a rule), but the anti-spam, scam, and plagiarism censorship mechanism has been abused for a variety of reasons that have turned that original promise and potential to explode in value by providing singular utility to the market into a shrinking, economically moribund coulda been contender.
We've let our token undercut it's own value by making it a tool for censorship that prevents Hive from gaining adoption that is demonstrably today desperately seeking a home. If we fix that problem Hive could easily surpass BTC in market share.
Thanks!
Look at how the Online Safety Act reads.
This is top-down enforcement just like everything else.
They can't fine Hive.
They can't stop Hive from using end to end encryption.
Legislation like this is 100% targeting centralized WEB2 platforms.
Best they can do is remove programs from app stores or at worst IP block websites.
Which isn't going to matter at all if the financial incentive to use Hive and other WEB3 protocols is great enough... which it will be when unemployment is 50% and the legacy economy is in shambles. I look forward to seeing how they try to apply a censorship bill onto censorship resistant networks when all the punishments they dreamed up can't even be enforced and it's not even possible to comply in the first place.
I don't. I have found injustice to be all too easy for that ilk, and I have no interest in fresh, new horrors.
This is all just part of the process.
We can already see how shit like this is gonna go down by looking at places like Nigeria.
It doesn't matter what the government says when the citizens are just like nah.
When life is hard people just stop complying without apology.
Fascinating. How are they going to read the data before I encrypt it when the data is encrypted on an offline device?
And then filtered through a QR code airgap.
That would be a pretty neat trick.
Certainly not impossible but pretty unlikely.
Why do you so smugly predict that we are all doomed to 1000 years of eternal darkness?
Maybe you should prepare yourself for war instead of being such a nay-saying punk all the time.
Or have you just decided that living that slave life is the way to go from here on out?
Understandable if so, but disappointing.
Very thorough comment as always.
I guess my only question to you would be the obvious one:
Do you believe that Hive has been successfully 51% attacked?
I feel like you are both heavily implying that this is both true and false at the same time. On the one side you talk a lot about the censorship on the platform being a problem. You often act as though this network has reached a point of no return in terms of corruption with the rich using their power to further enrich themselves (heavily employing the 'plutocracy' keyword), which is only going to get more pronounced over time as the corruption compounds upon itself.
And yet you are still here, which confuses the issue. Anyone who truly believes that Hive is being 51% attacked every single day and that this will be the case for the foreseeable future really shouldn't be sticking around under any circumstances. What am I missing?
I have to assume that you don't actually believe Hive has been corrupted in this way, and that the consensus of the network could change on a dime at any time... which is 'coincidentally' enough also my own assessment. These downvotes and censorship you speak of could be countered by other players on the network in an instant if they so willed it. Hell, even a fortune as small as a million dollars coming from outside the network could accomplish such a feat quite easily. An alliance forged inside of Hive itself could also materialize to do the same.
Perhaps the thing you are interpreting as censorship and corruption is simply the basic will of the network and collective consensus expressing itself. You're not a fan of the bitter flavor Hive is cooking up in the moment, and that is understandable. That doesn't mean the network is FUBAR, which is why you are still here having this conversation in the first place.
Is it really possible to write this and then read it over and think you've somehow gained the upper-hand within the discussion? Hurling your insults and venting frustration in such a childish and comical way all the while acting like some kind of intellectual superior. Isn't it painfully obvious that your emotional intelligence is just scraping the gutter?
You haven't gained anything from this comment. Not a single step of progress, and the best part being that you knew this was the case as you were writing it, but you wrote it anyway because you don't know how else to voice your frustration. How's it feel to be so smart and yet so dumb? If you don't have communication, you don't have anything. Those are the rules of humanity and the cooperation required to actually get shit done.
You accuse me lacking integrity, honesty, and objectivity, but it really feels like you're just projecting your own bullshit onto me. Do you really not understand what I mean by a 51% attack on Hive? I thought I described it pretty well, and I think you understand perfectly well and you're just pretending not to in order to "gain the upper hand" once again. Not very honest of you. Lacks integrity imo. Tell me more about how 'objective' you're being with a comment like this. Super comical on all fronts. Thanks for the laugh.
It all comes down to, just because you think you have a great thing doesn't mean everyone else is going to think it. This is what hive lacks big time. Its created major waves and sour taste in some mouths of which is money that will most likely never flow into it.
There's still a massive lack in any applications for hive it's kind of just sitting there waiting for development work to be done. There needs to be more users but also more utility for the hive and HBD tokens along with liquidity. So much of it is locked up for 13 weeks it's pretty crazy and then earnings on top of that get locked up at 50% which is also kind of crazy.
Hive needs to start learning some lessons from the successes of other chains no matter how much you might hate it. Money talks.
I don't think there are any other networks we can learn anything from.
Which one?
What lesson needs learning?
Getting VC money?
Which network became successful without some form of toxic centralization?
Which network is better than Hive at allowing users to monetize their own content creation?
I'm not seeing an answer there.
Very much feels like we're just in completely uncharted territory.
Flying blind, as they say.
I would say not so much blockchains but instead web2 socials in which applications would be built on top of hive. If anything the first major issue is the lack of development happening on hive and should be a focus area by either the core devs or a way to onboard application developers.
From that these applications need to understand web2 aspects of business which generate real revenue and growth and apply that to them. That in a way should help hive grow in value. The only value it has right now is speculation or needing resources to run an application. With few users and few application there's a ton of resources not being used.
Hm yeah totally but also a single application getting real adoption would bring the entire network to its knees.
And that doesn't have to be a social network.
Could be a game.
Could be porn.
Could be anything.
Hive is not a social media blockchain it's just a blockchain that stores text that we happened to build a social media app on top of. It's a pretty big distinction that's very easy to miss for anyone who hasn't tinkered with the API. Hell there are even a handful of hardcore devs on chain that are totally stuck in this mindset.
well shoot that doesn't sound good and still stems back from what we saw when Splinterlands had that bot army going for a while and seemed to crush the network a few times. Hopefully we get some deets out of hivefest on future plans and some real growth and value.
Ah well the Spinterlands thing is interesting because their tokenomics financially incentivized a Sybil attack on the network. Attacks like this are totally unsustainable and will never result in a long-term problem. Again this was not a Hive problem whatsoever and 100% falls on Splinterland's shoulders... which they actually fixed quite quickly. Unfortunately a lot of value has been drained from the SPS network because of it.
Hive development and marketing is very down to earth. Not many moonboys and not much overhype. Despite the existence of bots it seems like Hive numbers are pretty much organic.
The low liquidity caused some spikes in the price in the past, but seems like not many are interested in pumping and dumping a coin from a Blockchain like ours
I can only imagine it is due to the reputation based system we have, punpers and dumpers pretty quickly get ostracized and it becomes transparent the people that just want to make a quick buck
Seems like due to the nature of our Blockchain, based on debate, reputation and pretty much a democracy, attemps to overhyper and pump are short lived
So yeah, our numbers seem organic, rational and "correct" compared to blockchains and coins that literally need memes and marketing to survive
The main use case, in the end, is blogging
On the flip side Hive hasn’t fallen off the cliff in ranking like many other cryptos. In hive I trust. :)
Well said.
Even if 2025 turns out to be a raging bull, Hive could do quite well and still not break back into the top 100. “A rising tide that lifts all boats” would lift a bunch of shitcoins too.
But I’d rather stack Hive and Satoshis than hold a basket of garbage.
I'm going to be particularly fascinated if the narrative of the next bull run is DEcentralized SOcial media and we STILL don't make it in to the top 100. lol.
I believe as time goes, we will get there one day
Do not fear. At least I'm still here.
I actually have the feeling that Hive could do well in the future and outperform others but what can we do to achieve that?
What are the necessary steps to take?
There are no necessary steps to take.
It's a waiting game.
The network is just going to do what it does.
No one can control it.
Certainly we all have our parts to play but collectively it's very much just slow-moving chaos.
I think market cap is a lousy measure of value, but I know many disagree. They call it objective measurement of worth by the market.
I suspect however, that using a single characteristic to draw big conclusions is a faulty premise.
Hive has potential, but Hive is complicated, and although simpler to use then most blockchain social media, it is still complicated.
I wish I was at HiveFest, it would be nice to see if there is anything promising in our immediate future.
I hope you get to go, even though you moved east.
That's kind of a silly take considering MC can't measure volume or depth.
Two market caps could be exactly the same, while the amount of USD that can actually be extracted from the liquidity pools could be wildly different depending on how many buyers there are backstopping the current price.
I agree that using a single measurement like Market Cap and extrapolating conclusions about vallue and future potential is very faulty logic.
Your examples are some of many.
I think characteristics like utility and community are much better measurements and the success of BItcoin and Ethereum in either community or utility suggests those characteristics have much greater predictive value of value or future success.
It's mind blowing to say the fucking least dude.... I've been around for a while... I don't have much stake but fucking hell after six years hive still isn't up there...But BitTorrent coin is.... like what actual fucking worth does BitTorrent coin provide??
I can still download without it... It's ridiculous to see what people pump their money into and I also think that Hive is being hidden in some sort of way as to not fully expose the idea of owning your own content... It must be.
You’re talking about BitTorrent. What about pepe or Doge that do absolutely nothing. I think it’s the people! It’s obvious that majority don’t want a solution, they want easy money schemes or the allure of it, I can’t make sense of it. 🤦🏼
Very flawed way to look at a token it’s frustrating to see it though.
What I like and what keeps me in HIVE despite the value of the token is that it is stable as a platform and is maintained, many similar projects have come out but they cannot be maintained or do not pay profits, HIVE has been a safe platform for us and with many alternatives to produce within it, in Venezuela we can even pay in many places with HBD and if that continues to grow in more countries it can help increase its value
Not seeing hive listed in the top 100 is not encouraging. We have the community, the investors and decentralized ecosystem. What is stopping us from emerging as top 10? Those coin or token that occupied the space are not better than hive.
Should I say it is politics that is limiting us? Or we aren't doing enough as a community. Or maybe we need to do better. Is centralized platforms the answer?
I am also of the opinion that we don't have to be among the top 100, to make impact in the crypto space. As more token and coins keep coming up, there visibility is important, hence there reaching the top 💯
Un post increíble!!!!!
honestly i can't agree more. I don't what exactly we need, maybe better marketing and to attract more people that will create dapps around the hive ecosystem? Like splinterlands for example. I believe these 2 ways are some of the keys to make hive reach new heights and ofc to do more as a community together, not simply have small team of 5-10-50 people trying to attract people all by themselves!
Let’s even leave the top 50, the remaining bottom 50 of the top 100 employ no marketing, most tokens there don’t even have a working product but they are still there. It doesn’t seem like marketing is the problem.
This post provides a refreshingly candid perspective on the cryptocurrency market, particularly in relation to Hive's position and the broader landscape. It highlights the apparent paradox of some tokens' market caps compared to their utility or activity within the crypto space. The author's assessment of various tokens and projects is candid and thought-provoking, shedding light on the complexities and sometimes irrationalities of the market. Furthermore, the post emphasizes the importance of community and staying power in the crypto world, with a touch of optimism for Hive's future. It encourages readers to rethink the way they evaluate cryptocurrencies, promoting a more cooperative mindset in the industry. A valuable and thought-provoking analysis overall.
Boom
Exposure is lacking. Yeah it is frustrating not to bein the top 100. But i think it will only be a matter of time. As bad as it may sound, Once the other shitcoins fall its a rank up for Hive. It is inevitable.
I !luv this poetic reflection:
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I believe HIVE will up again nearly
sometimes you don't need to be the best in terms of ranking to thrive. Whether hive enter top 100 or not does not really matter. The advantage of not over competing is gained stability. As you said, rising tides raise boats. We just need to stay strong and focused. Building projects which has value without over louding it. Let them compete, we chose to sail in peace.
I still think people suffer from the "one ring" mentality, that winning at crypto is about creating a monopoly token. I feel they have missed the point.
Yeah I mean not only should we not be rooting for such an outcome but the possibility of it even happening is 0%.
Blockchain is way to inefficient by design to corner the market.
Communities themselves mirror this as well; it's not possible to create one community to rule them all.
Funny to watch libertarians and anarchists literally root for some kind of new-age crypto deep-state.