Or when does obsession with accumulating more wealth become an issue?
I’ve had a lot of fun recently engaging with different “FIRE” (Financially Independent Retired Early) and hobby-investors through different channels (mostly Twitter). The resulting motivation to from being mindful of how big impact small additional income streams become over time when allowed to compound has been much of my drive for posting daily in January, also when sitting down to write felt like a real hustle. I also think that the take-aways can be very helpful in so many aspects of our lives. Whether it is to understand that we don’t need a tonne of “things” to be happy, and get off that never-ending desire-train of craving expensive stuff, or the financial benefits of the outcome of rigorous saving and investing. But at what point does it go too far?
Time spent hustling to earn time for what?
I'm certain that most people can benefit greatly from adding some portion of minimalism and disciplined saving and investing to their daily lives. But on the spectrum from the person who lives pay-check to pay-check on one end, and the guy who lives on pasta and oatmeal despite earning six figures on the other, where does a better balance exist?
Looking at the common mantras shared in the FIRE community present some suggestions of where "too far lies":
“Never increase your spending, only increase your investment as your revenue grows!”.
“The most important currency is time, thus spending money only postpones one’s freedom”.
You get the idea. The encouragement is always to limit spending whilst hustling to increase the amount of money that one can invest and let compounding do its thing. But at what point is this merely an act of sacrificing one’s youthful years in the hopes of something greater later on? How much time is it worth spending hustling to reach financial goals? At what point would someone more interested in maximizing their total well-being throughout life, rather than just the dollar figure in their portfolio tracker, think that time is better spent elsewhere? Or that money would be better allocated towards something else than another rental property?
In short, I have two questions that I’m now asking myself more often:
- Am I letting go of too many opportunities to just have fun, travel, go out, simply to hustle for something that won’t make me happy?
- Now that I am in a quite good place financially, is the goal simply to grow more wealth? Or is it to have the means to bring something to the world that I want to see happen?
Thinking beyond wealth as purchasing power
When we talk about being financially free, people will have different things in mind. Listing reasonable goals from low to high could be to have enough wealth to the point where:
- Money is no longer a source of stress and worry (out of bad debt)
- The need for more money does not make you work a less desirable job
- You don’t need an income to sustain your current way of life
- When you can do anything that you can think of without considering the prices of goods and services.
The typical “FIRE” goal is to reach number 3. Namely to have a portfolio of assets that provide sufficient dividends to sustain a decent lifestyle. To others, 2 may be enough, although it is still often hard to let go of a better-paid job in order to have more time and less responsibility. Yet, I can’t help but see a certain flaw in each point.
All of the above are based on the assumption that money is there to be spent on yourself. Now, I’ve always pitied those who have such a narrow view of what money is and what it can do. You’ll often hear people with this view of money say something along the lines of: “Nobody should have a billion dollars”. When trying to back this up, people then tend to translate how much money one would have to spend each day, month, or year in order to spend a billion dollars. Naturally, the conclusion is that nobody can reasonably spend a billion dollars. But this fails to realize that money, and net worth especially, isn’t just purchasing power, it is also the ability to allocate productive assets. If I have a dream to see a growing space sector in Norway, I may want to have a billion dollars in order to invest and help grow companies to realize that dream.
So at what point would you consider yourself so wealthy, that you care more about what you are creating than how much you are obtaining? If you already have achieved nr 3. on the list, will you be happier pursuing number 4. in order to also have a yacht and this vacation house then you would be investing in a few startup companies that did something you found truly exciting and meaningful?
I pose these questions out loud because they've had me thinking for a while. We are all so lucky to be a life in an incredible time where we can travel the world and see and experience what only a lucky few could do for almost all of our history. How much of that time is worth spending staring at crypto-charts?
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So many things I appreciate about this post @fredrikaa, not the least of which is this:
When we die, whether that be sooner or later, we're not going to say "I wish I'd spent more time analysing charts!". We're going to say "I wish I'd travelled to ________ and I wish I'd told ____________ that I love them more often."
That is so true! There is a lot more to life than money - and other things make me a lot more happy, than money does.
Will take that as a reminder and tell my loved ones again, that I love them ;-)
Have an amazing day!
@andy-plays
I am trying to move towards a minimalistic lifestyle to suit the crypto winters. So I won't have to worry about taking profits and all of my wealth will be accumulated over time in the form of assets. I want to do crypto full-time. This is more fun and doesn't feel like work.
Never! The hustle doesn't stop.
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Love it! I also think that bear markets are the most motivating times to hustle, as I just know that it is when I get the most long term value out of what I put in.
The trick is to find å hustle where one can love the process, not just desire the end. Glad you've found that!
100%. Bear is when builders build and great projects & lions emerge. I love it here on Hive, talking to people and making more crypto. So grateful to be here!
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I have to say this is a though provoking post. I was expecting a crypto related post but this got me thinking.
In my view, it is all about mindset and where are you in your life cycle. The mindset creates your personality and that provides the basis for how your value your wealth and where you put more importance. Is earning enough or you need to feel like you are earning enough are two different things.
Also, as I am getting older, certain things that I considered really important in my life such as a high flying career took a back seat over the priority of my two years old son. It is my life cycle and the way I think now which would not have happened a couple of years earlier.
I know I went on tangent here :) and hope that's okay.
Nothing shakes up priorities like having kids! Not that I would know, cause I have none, but I can imagine that they will😛.
I think it is healthy to define a goal early. Not strickly in a way that you only care about it, but to remind yourself to be happy about it. Else its easy to get lost always chasing a carrot on a stick.
True. They mess up with plans big time 😃
The dirty and shrewd mind we have here wants more when we reach a certain goal. We need to discipline our mind from asking more every time we reach a goal. It means we need to have a behavioral goal in addition to the monetary goal.
To be honest, I think there is so much more to life than money. It is definitely needed and of course I am working to earn more money and let my money work to earn more money.
When I started with investing, I did look at the expected return and count it as days I don't need to work again if I had invest a specific amount of money. Of course this changes over time.
But time is often more valuable, than money. And I don't like the thought of working until I can retire - not if this point is in 10 or 30 years. The time spent with my loved ones is precious right now. And I want to have and enjoy as much as I can right now. Even if this means, that I have to work longer - but I am already having some quality time in higher quantities, than I would, when I would work 24/7.
Thanks for this great post and the thoughts!
Cheers,
@andy-plays
Thank you for reading and leaving a thoughtful reply:). I like to remind myself that life only exists in the present moment. "the future" doesn't exist, it is instead referring to a new present moment that had not occurred yet. But if we then fsil to appreciate and make positive use of the present, in order to hopefully be better off "in the future", then we likely end up never having that future we once craved 3 years ago because we now hustle for another goal, and then another etc.
It is always "now", so we should make the most of it:).
I feel like it's different for everyone. For me it would be working when I want to work and not because I have to. I don't want all those fancy things just want a good life, enjoy it and if I have some extra help some others and create/build more with it.
Your answer is pretty much identical to what I gave @olebulls in one of his posts on the topic earlier!
I think my main point is that it is important to know that at some point, it should be more a question of what we do with our time and resources to increase well-being than how we accumulate more for the sole sake of growing financial wealth. Of course, it is possible for the two to be related. But not obsessively IMO.
Totally agree with that and I wish more people thought that way.
For many people the current way life is not obvious. People can't often see what is really important to them. This could be family, helping people, making the world a better place.
I really like the other 3 points and are pause for reflection.
Nassim Taleb gives some great examples in one of his books about how how much is enough is all relative. And i am reminded of Hans Rosling's famous talk on poverty. So maybe in answer to your question is there is no absolute answer and it's all relative. For some people it's even just about keeping score.
I agree there is no definitive answer, which is why I found it interesting to pose the question to the community.
The important part, IMO, is not what targets we reach, but that we feel satisfied, fulfilled and happy when doing so.
this is fun, as each person will feel safe with a different number. i know somes that need a 1.5 million dollars to feel safe, as for me, 100k GBP are enough using crypto to get a decent wage equivalent these days.
It's good to set a define tar et in advance! Hopefully, when you do reach it you will also manage to appreciate it as much as you think positively about it today
There's no time, enough is enough.
It would be a progressive hustle to keep accumulating till death do us part.
Most times when one has accumulated enough, hustling would only be for the thrills, though we've got to make daily spending so the hustle really never stops.
I agree that for most people, it never ends. But perhaps this is worth questioning?
Absolutely, Warren Buffet would be one to question because it never ends.
I still worry, but I am here already kind of. That said, we were a lot more close to this definition before the pandemic and hopefully can get back there, this is why I have to focus on blogging and programming to hopefully grow my Hive rather than just buy it :)
I'm really fortunate here that I don't need to work a job I literally hate, though there are things I would love to do instead of work for someone else even though I did have my own business and took full-time employment due to anxiety.
The money in our bank account has halved from our peak when we could have taken literally years off and lived off the money in there, but as yet we don't have the dividends or other passive income sources to keep it topped up versus our outgoings (having an adult child living with us, a mortgage, car payments, taxes etc)
Again, we do well so don't have nearly the worries we used to, and have all the toys I need with no burning desire for more, but there are a lot of expenditures that we do have to worry about. We need new windows (as was driven home to us in the -45c weather), a new kitchen+flooring (had our fridge flood), so we keep plugging away at projects :)
To become so wealthy? That would be when I have to do not single work again everyday I wake up from sleep because my income now increases everyday either if I choose to work or not.
This crypto world is very exciting since we don't know where it is going and I love that, and if I had enough money of course I would invest in cryptocurrencies but I would particularly love to be the owner or partner of a bakery-pastry shop since I am a sweet lovers. And I would still spend hours looking at the charts and looking for ways to get a lot out of the crypto market.
That's basically our household, and many others. When the jobs are scarce, and the competition too high, you can't be picky about job you have, especially without any degree or skills. But still, I hope things would be better in the future.
And I should quote this to my wife, though she'll nagged me for sure. lol
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Very nice post friend
For me 'enough' has always been when it earns Time. To me the most precious thing to 'acquire' is Time. Gold, BTC, cash etc are things but Time is the tricky elusive beast that really is what it's all pointing towards "The Time to do THIS or Time to have That " even enjoying a Thing you worked towards is about the TIME you have it, in that Moment, the NOW, it's the ever elusive but most valuable commodity out there.
For me even when I used to sling coffee part time rather than work a 'career' it was because I knew I wanted the TIME in between those shifts to sit and look and draw or grow a garden or talk a walk. Then combine Want with Time and you have a real recipe for Goals I suppose. They say you never have enough money, but really we never have enough Time.
Great post @fredrikaa