LBI launched as a token with a similar structure to SPI, basically a pooled investment token, with a focus on the "Leofinance" ecosystem as it was known at the time (now branded as Inleo). Over time, it has diversified and invested in other crypto's off-chain, paused dividends to focus on growth, and experienced some stagnation.
Recently in the Spinvest discord, there has been talks around winding it up in some form. Maybe it's time has been and gone, or maybe it just needs some fresh focus, and a revamp. I have floated that I would be interested in taking over as the operator of this project, and freeing up @silverstackeruk to focus on his other projects, being the flagship Spinvest, the hugely successful EDS, and the DAB joint venture.
Now I'd like to present my ideas to revamp LBI, and revive it as a project with a future.
LBI 2.0
My goal would be to set LBI up as a token that balances between being an income and growth investment. The LEO eco-system that is LBI's primary investment has undergone significant changes over the years, and LBI still holds a large sized stake of LEO, its cornerstone investment. That will not change in this plan.
Here is how I see LBI being revamped.
Resume dividends. I think there is sufficient assets in LBI to warrant it issuing a weekly profit share. A token with low liquidity, that is hard to exit without loosing value, and no return on investment is a hard sell. My plan would see weekly dividends resume after the first month.
Liquidity. In month two, my goal would be to establish a liquidity pool on Tribaldex/Beeswap. The pairing would be LBI/LEO. A small portion of weekly income would be used to provide an incentive for LBI holders to add liquidity to this pool. I don't see LBI having "protocol owned liquidity" it owns in the pool, I'd like the pool to be built by LBI holders. The key point here to make this attractive to everyday LBI holders would be that LBI tokens held in the pool are included in the calculation for weekly dividends. So, by adding to the pool, you are not loosing out on dividends, and you will also earn a part of the LP rewards. Enhancing LBI's liquidity, making it easier to buy or sell, improves it as an asset.
Buy Back and Burn. A small portion of weekly income would be used to buy back LBI each week, and burn it. This would be a small number, but over time it makes LBI scarcer, and holders will gradually gain through the total assets being divided by slightly less LBI tokens each week. The percentage of income used here each week would be small, but over time it would become noticable as the LBI:LEO ratio grows, meaning each LBI is worth more in LEO terms.
Grow non-LEO, HIVE income. My goal would be to return off chain funds back on to HIVE, and invest them in other HIVE income producing options. This would be done for a couple of reasons, including making it easier to operate and manage, improve focus and bring fresh income to the project.
Growth. Each week, a decent chunk of the income would be retained and invested for growth. I don't want LBI to fade by paying out all its income, Growing income over time would be my goal.
Focus. LBI would become my sole focus here on HIVE. Currently, I manage a wallet for Spinvest, being the @spinvest-leo account. I would wind this wallet up, transfer assets back to the @spinvest main account, and give LBI my 100% focus.
Feedback. If LBI holders have suggestions, I'm all ears. I'll set up a dedicated community on INLEO, and post regularly on threads to try to rebuild LBI as a community. If anyone wants to help with that process, I'd love to hear from you.
The details.
Here is how I'd like to split income each week:
- 40% of income to dividends.
- 40% of income reinvested.
- 5% set aside as LP rewards.
- 2.5% used to buy back and burn each week.
- 5% paid to Spinvest for assistance with automation and coding.
- 7.5% operator fee (for my time and energy).
Without many recent reports to look at, I'll assume an income total of roughly 700 LEO per week. This seems to be a ballpark from late last year, and I feel quite achievable given we would bring non hive assets like BTC and ETH back to invest in other HIVE based income producing investments.
This would give a split from the above breakdown.
- 280 LEO for dividends - (0.0014 per LBI roughly)
- 280 LEO to reinvest - (worth $28, or 88 HIVE at current prices)
- 35 LEO for LP rewards (This would mean the LP would have 140ish LEO per month as LP incentives)
- 17.5 LEO to buy back and burn - Maybe 7 LBI each week at a (guess) of 1LBI = 2.5 LEO currently
- 35 LEO to SPI (I will need a little help from my friends)
- 52.5 LEO as my operator fee - current value is around $5.25
So, I guess the next question is, why would I do all this for $5 bucks a week?
Well, I think it can be a lot more. I like the prospects for LEO token, and think they are going to continue to improve over the coming years. If this proposal is implemented, and I do take over as operator, I'd buy significantly more LBI tokens off the market, and build my position dramatically. Then, the operator fee would be a portion, and my LBI dividends would be significant also. There is a lot of off-chain value that can be brought back to HIVE, and boost income.
And lastly, I'm looking for a new challenge and a hands on way to build a crypto income.
For those that don't know me, my name is John (many refer to me as JK), my main accounts are @jk6276 and @jk6276.holdings, and I currently run the @spinvest-leo wallet. I live in a regional town in Australia, and I've been on HIVE and before the fork, STEEM for a number of years. I feel I have proven my trustworthiness over the years, but of course there will be checks and balances to ensure LBI funds.
One other area I'd like to address is around what other HIVE based assets I'd look to, to boost income over time. I'm thinking DAB, SIM, SPS and more to begin with. SIM and SPS focused on the liquidity pools, and DAB via building a BDOND stake. This is just the beginning, and in this area I'd be very open to feedback and suggestions. The focus would be income, which could easily be liquidated back to LEO and added to the above weekly distribution.
That's my proposal, what do you think?
Over to you, the LBI token holders to see what everyone thinks and if you would stay on board with this vision for the future of LBI. All feedback from stakeholders would be welcome.
I have set @lbi-token as 100% beneficiary for this post
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
Generous to set somebody else as beneficiary without using #sbi-skip.
I never invested into any of these investment pool tokens (with one exception where they coordinated a swap for SBI bonus units so they could start out strong with upvote value). I usually prefer to manage my assets more directly, except for when I can buy in at significant discount to NAV. I'll sometimes give up a little control if it means I can buy $1 of assets for $0.50
The plan sounds solid to me, but I don't know enough about the holdings and their cash flows to give a real opinion.
Hey Joseph. I appreciate your comment. The SBI-skip wasn't really a thought as I have not been posting much lately and can spare a bit of my HBI power. Need to get back to posting, but this post wasn't about personal benefit.
Pooled and managed investments are definitely not for everyone, and always involve an element of trust which can obviously be a risky proposition.
The plan itself is still just a rough first thoughts, and open to feedback. I'm informed that cash flows currently are well below my numbers in the post, but not unrealistic if we return to some regular activity levels.
I appreciate your comments.
@jk6276 thank you for this post. I was waiting for something like this, I even started to write down some of my thoughts.
Nevertheless, here's my opinion.
I would like LBI to drop Leo focus. Degrade it and move towards the things that brought us the most value - which I find Hive.
Leo has been nothing but a disappointment so far and can't really see why should we trust it at all. It's too centralised, I have some personal negative experience and I guess LBI is heavily affected by bHBD stunt as well.
I know LBI price is noted in Leo, the whole project is denominated in Leo, but let's not put too much hope in it. Let's use it when it's reasonable (like @leo.voter delegation). But I vote to stay as far away from Leofinance as possible. The same goes with LBI-Leo pool. Let's focus on swap.hive instead.
There haven't been a report posted in a while and before making decisions we need to know where do we stand with CUB, bHBH and bHive. (@silverstackeruk).
We need to find authors to create more content. It's the foundation of our growth.
Let's negotiate your terms.
What if LBI would pay you 2.5% in Leo( or Hive if we switch) and 2.5% in LBI (meaning we would buy LBI for 5% in total).
This would create a bet - the better results the greater your profit would be.
Cub is wrapped up. There is a buy wall for whoever has CUB tokens left.
https://hive-engine.com/trade/CL
I didn't mean CUBLIFE (which I found really cool before Leofinance broke Cubdefi), I meant CUB a BEP-20 token by Leofinance
Well there's that. I thought CUB was dead since forever ago when I saw my income dwindle. I like LEO but recognize that many of the projects have not been... successful.
There is a great difference between not being successful and shutting down the operation and taking out money out of project and earn on other people's money.
I've been raising flags about it for over 8 months
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@jocieprosza/hbd-interests-cub-governance-in-test
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@jocieprosza/cubathy-do-you-have-any-bhbd-or-cub
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@jocieprosza/is-inleo-broke
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@jocieprosza/leofinances-daylight-robbery-a-call-to-action
One of my goals will be to sort out all the off-chain stuff and bring maximum value from some of the problem areas you have mentioned.
LBI is a LEO based fund - it will always remain a focus. Unfortunately, if any investor wants nothing to do with LEO, then LBI is not for them. I envisage LEO holdings will always remain at least 25% of LBI, minimum.
As to my terms, most feedback I have received is that it is not enough. I think 7.5% is fair, but that is ultimately up to LBI holders to decide.
Thanks for you input, much appreciated.
I know we can't and won't drop LEO completely but clinging to LEO (Leofinance's ecosystem in general) was a mistake - we would have gone much further with Hive.
My idea is to keep delegating to @leo.voter and selling a portion of Leo for Hive to power up as Hive was our main revenue stream.
We all were Leofinance's enthiusiasts, but the reality (LEO inflantion, CUB for instance) has hit us hard.
As for me I really like the idea you taking over the reigns, but still I would like you to would take a portion of your remuneration in LBI bought of the market. This would you make you as interested in LBI's success as the rest of us.
EDIT:
Why LBI-LEO pool not LBI-swap.hive?
One last thing, what's the reason behind LBI-Leo pool? Are you planning on using it in operations?
I think, before we move to another paradigm or go back to original one, we need to establish how f****d we are.
It's easy to make assumptions and calculations on Leo/Hive only income, but a great deal of LBI's holding was cut off (purposely) from us and decimated. I'm happy @silverstackeruk managed things the way we have some btc behind LBI.
I'm some minor fish and due to Leofinance's actions I lost half of my initial investment. Let's not build Leo holdings but Hive holdings instead.
Sorting out the off-chain stuff, with bHIVE, bHBH and so on, will be a big goal. I have always had a positive, constructive relationship with the LEO team, so I think I will be able to bring maximum value back into useable funds on HIVE.
LEO will always be a cornerstone of this fund, I;d plan around 25% of the fund always being in LEO.
I'f people don't want anything to do with LEO, then LBI is not for them, whether I'm running it, or SSUK or anyone else for that matter.
Thanks for your input, much appreciated.
Let's keep the involvement minimal then, the more money we will put into Leo the harder it will be to get even. My investment in LBI is far from even getting even. Leo's inflation is too great for us to keep up (mildly speaking). That's why, ok let's keep calculating things in Leo, but let's not loose our future wealth on it. We're all here for money, aren't we? So we should focus on the wealth.
The magic, real magic, would be a return to posting. How many posts per week do you think you can manage?
With that in mind, assuming the answer is a solid number, 100+ EDS is a must. I would also put out for consideration some amount of INCOME tokens. Its a lesser known project, that I manage, but I know ssuk sees its value. Additionally, when not posting, you could reblog a post from a member and distribute that vote through our unique reblog member curation.
I like your management ideas, liquidity is the big issue (after or around the lack of posting/updates), I have provided liquidity on the market and I would do so with much more confidence knowing that there were divs and this plan involved to improve the other mechanics.
finally bought some income tokens.
make sure to use the LP pool for the best price!
Content is so important for LBI, I recognize that. To be honest it is not my strength, but something I can work on. There will obviously be a return to posting the update every week. In the early months, definitely more posts from me as I revamp investments and look at options.
Thinking more engagement on Threads - likely a daily update there on income and the daily token price - could lead to some interesting trading possibilities if the LBI/LEO ratio differs much from the pool and market prices.
I also am aware of INCOME, and know SSUK is a big fan so that will be on the radar for sure.
Thanks for the feedback, and if you have any other advice, I'm all ears.
As a former member of the LBI-GOV team before it was dissolved, I think something like this should be taken to a vote for the holders. I'd also like to see some kind of Gov team created again if LBI is going to "spin back up". Part of the draw of the token was the fact that it was a DAC and as holder we got to have a say in how things were going to be run. Unfortunately, it became pretty obvious that most people didn't care, they just wanted the dividends, but some of us did. I'm not opposed to pulling the outside investments back to Hive, but I don't think SIM or SPS are the best options. SPS is effectively dead (for now) thanks to the move to GLINT and no real idea of when the next piece of the roadmap will be accomplished. Based on past history though I would expect years not months. Is SIM that DCITY token? I'd suggest BXT or PWR as an alternative. Perhaps even ZING, I feel like that has more potential right now than SIM or SPS. I'm 100% on board with EDS or DBOND/DAB. Even LIOTES to some degree. I have a decent stake in LBI, so I'd like to see it succeed.
I definitely agree that a vote is needed to approve this change. I am working on a detailed post with my plans - a new whitepaper (for want of a better term) for LBI. I feel a token holder vote based on that plan would be appropriate. I am wary of holding votes and governance stuff for every step along the way. DAO's are tricky, I think they are great in theory, but do they work in practice? SPS DAO seems to be a big contributing factor to SPS's current issues (from the perspective of someone not very involved in it).
Anyway, regardless of how this all goes, There are a lot of big LBI token holders that have not voiced an opinion on any of this yet.
As to the specific investments, nothing is set in stone yet. I am a fan of BXT and PWR, some EDS and DAB are in my thinking for sure. SIM is DCITY, but it is a much better investment than many people realize. There is other stuff I'm looking at, and working on a structure to build in growth plus income.
Thanks for your input, and I'm definitely looking forward to working out the path forward for LBI if the token holders would like me to.
Thanks for replying! This all sounds good to me. I agree, some of the stuff with the SPS DAO gets a bit tedious at times. Maybe you create some kind of threshold in the new "whitepaper" that lays out what is just a general operation decision and what is vote worthy. After talking to SSUK and reading your post and comments, I am on board with anything that gives LBI a future.
I like the combination of dividends and buyback. That makes it comfortable to not sell it! :)
Glad you like it - some of it is a bit of an experiment (particularly the LP effort). We shall see what happens.
Some interesting aspects here:
I like these innovations and it would be a good model for other tokens when an operator want to move on, rather than projects disintegrating. Also great to see options to build permissionless jobs on HIVE.
The suggestions for building the token and, especially, the incentives for LBI holders to build token liquidity look good.
As an SPI holder, I feel one of the things that SPI can help with is contributing the know-how and infrastructure support to developing and refreshing projects, so the ongoing fee to SPI looks good. Had you thought about a handover fee from the fund, or is this your proposal to handle that aspect?
Hey Shani, always love getting your perspective on these things. I'm interested to chat with yourself and SSUK regarding Handover fees and how that could work. As you can see I have put a small share for Spinvest in the breakdown, but all this is at proposal stage for now.
Many more discussions to be had before this all happens, still not sure if many LBI holders would be on-board.
Thanks for the generally positive feedback.
Just a note - I commented on a bunch of comments, through the inleo interface and now many of them are simply ... gone.
Still a LEO believer but recognizing that doing all our work on that interface may be... dumb.
The most important thread of the bulk of my comments was the thought of paying the people who work the account waaaay more than 5%. I've seen Projects ran by selfless people often end up with the same selfless people rage quitting HIVE.
Yeah - LBI is a LEO project, that won't change. I've had a few people tell me the 7.5% is not enough. My response is that I'm likely to keep buying more LBI, and move alot of my HIVE funds into a big LBI position. So yes the operator fee is one thing, but if I have heaps of tokens then working on LBI is simply working on my HIVE wallet, so building up LBI income is directly building my own income - from dividends along with the modest operator fee.
This line right here made me laugh out loud, like proper laughing!! I feel your pain
Sounds all pretty good to me. I would vote for it all with the 3386 LBI I manage. And nice to see you being interested in LBI again. !1UP
Thanks Flauwy, I appreciate the support. I had heaps of LBI early on, and exited at the time way back, looking for different things in crypto than LBI offered. Keen to get back in, and rebuild a big stack of LBI, especially if this suggestion goes through and I can rebuild it from inside.
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I like the idea of revamping LBI. I still hold all of mine and believe the rise of Leo can lift many boats. Producing more content for the blog would be a good way of increasing the income and I always enjoyed the posts where I could learn what was going on with Tokens outside of Hive.
I suppose all this will have to come with a community vote so I will be reading for other pros and cons before casting mine but thank you for putting yourself forward for the challenge.
This sounds good, but I think you should pay yourself more. I see burn out on projects left and right because people try to run these investment tokens in a "selfless" manner then get upset when people expect what was promised.
I would like to stick to building WITH LEO. I know there are people who don't believe in the LEO team at the moment, and that's fine - they should go invest somewhere else. I hold LBI because its LEO based, if it were to not have a LEO Base (weather it be investment, income, calculating worth based on LEO) then I would not be interested, I would cash out and... buy more LEO.
I also like the idea of SPI still gaining an income from the project - purely based on my SPI HODLings.
Regarding building a LEO/LBI pool, I would be interested and would need to be taught how to join the pool. I'm sure I've been taught before but I didn't hold on to the knowledge.
I own 662 LBI tokens and if you would continue to work the project (and let us know on a weekly basis how much the tokens are worth) and make sure it stays LEO based (whatever that means) I would most definitely buy more tokens.
Thank you for this proposal I think SPI is a great project and I think building similar projects is great for investors, great for the Blockchain, and in this case, I'm hoping it is also great for LEO.
wen ad income
Thanks Metzli. LEO will always be a key component of LBI. As I said in another comment, my bag will become heavy with LBI tokens, so the dividends will help my remuneration. But all that can be adjusted down the track.
Regular weekly updates and other content should help.
The LP will be a bit of an experiment, will guide people if they want to participate, but it will come with risks,
Thanks for your comments, I'm looking forward to moving this along and getting LBI heading back in the right direction. Will chat with you some more - I noted your comments in Discord back before this proposal that you may be keen for some involvment on threads and such - I'll be in touch.
Cheers.
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