Downvoting - What do you think? Good are Bad

in LeoFinance4 years ago

Hello, LBIer's. Over the past few days im seeing alot more people talking about downvoting, getting muted from tribes and added to blacklists. Downvoting is something I personally im not a big fan of because it's just as easy to abuse as upvotes. People dont question big upvotes but they do question downvotes and i think either people dont understand what the purpose of the downvoting button are they feel something is being taken away from them. @taskmaster4450 is in charge of LBI's voting power and from what I see, he does not downvote. He understands the drama and payback that would come @lbi-tokens way for downvoting and stays natural. LBI could wipe off the rewards from most LEO posts on its own but we all know the famous Uncle Ben Spider-man quote.

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LBI is likely to never downvote posts which is good cause of the drama and stuff but at the same time, it's a little sad because we have the voting power to remove big rewards from shitposters/circle jerkers to go back into the rewards pool. Im sorry but no post containing 8-12 lines of what you did today (nothing) and a picture is worth $50-100.

My take on downvoting is as follows, I might be a little off

Downvoting was introduced so that users could remove pending rewards from content they thought was overvalued. Simple as that.

If you have become used to getting big rewards based on auto votes are vote farming and then someone comes along and wipes out 50% of all your pending rewards with big downvotes, it's easy to understand you would get mad and seek answers. Chances are your content is shit/lazy or copied and whoever downvoted you thinks your pending rewards are too high. What you should do is accept you've had an easy ride long enough and either up your game are accept reduced rewards. What happens is most users hunt down the downvoter, ask why, why, why or throw abuse at them. I've seen people spending hours/days kissing the asses of people they never heard of and begging, literary begging to have downvotes removed.

FUN FACT

Pending content rewards are not yours until 7 days have passed. That's right, they belong to the rewards pool, not you. People should be free to up are downvote as they please. This is why you can have a post that says pending $10 suddenly jump to $14 if the price of HIVE jumps by double digits and the same thing happens on the reverse when the price of HIVE goes down, your pending rewards will go down. We dont piss and bitch and moan because it's not in our control.

Pending rewards belong to the rewards pool until they are issued after 7 days. Upvotes distribute these rewards and downvotes put them back into the rewards pool.

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Ideally, if downvoting was used correctly and people accepted it for what it was instead of using it as a weapon, people that post good content would get rewarded more, everyone that produces good content/useful content would get rewarded more based merely on the fact the rewards pool would be bigger.

In the real world

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It's abused as much as upvoting and most downvoting is done now as a form of revenge. We've all had those posts where we upset a whale and 3-5 mins after the whale downvotes us, the minions follow with the there -0.00HIVE downvotes. Some of us will have had entire pending rewards wiped out. I've had had to deal with a few of these people for @spinvest but I stood my ground and I think my witness buddy helped me out a bunch as well which was handy. For my personal account, I bow and do whatever they say but for SPI, EDS, LBI or CL, I stand our ground because our models are sound, tested and proven to not be a drain on the HIVE/LEO ecosystem and we can't change our terms even if that means taking a hit. On paper, its a great idea but in practice, not so good.

Luckily I've not had issues with any project for the past 8-9 months. @lbi-token gets downvotes from time to time but whatever, they are not reoccurring and if people think our posts get rewarded too much, so be it. We kill on curation 😎

What do you think about downvoting

Do you think it could ever work without the abuse? or to a point where the abuse is a small part of it.

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Lastly, RIP to John McAfee

He was the pioneer of the internet security industry, down for decentralization and a crazy SOB.

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Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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I generally don't downvote. I think the only time I did was when someone asked specifically for the downvote (one of the duplicate posts by taskmaster where he specially stated for people to remove rewards) and also for those phishing scams.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

A downvote is bad when it happens to me, but when it happens to someone else it is not bad.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

That was just plain rotten what you said above. Sounds like all you care about is your rewards, and if the whole platform burns you would push the granny out the way to get to the emergency exit. Haha I might be exaggerating a little, but that comment set me off on another downvoting binge!

Nice thumbnail though!

Dude, wait, that was pure sarcasm didn't you notice?

Same from me, didn't you notice. One little flag won't hurt you. How could I have done the sarcasm back without it?

Few days ago 36 flags made me sad.. And no i didn't notice it master.

Downvotes are a necessary part of the process. There was a chain that forked from Steem that tried to go without it. Things go ridiculous.

When they are most applicable is when there is spamming or plagiarism. These are times where it makes sense to take rewards away from people.

Also, tribes are muting people because there are a lot who are tag spamming so I dont blame them. We see it on both Leofinance and CINE. People put up a post and tag a focused tribe like CINE even though the post has nothing to do with Films.

Sadly, downvotes are required because people simply will try to game the system however they can. I do not agree with downvotes based upon disagreement with someone's point of view. People have the right to express what they want, I dont have to agree with it.

Tribes do have some more control as they can mute spammers and those who do not adhere to the guidelines of the community. At the hive level, that is more difficult.

Good topic for which there is no easy answer because there are people who look to bilk the reward pools in so many different ways. Hence, those with stake are continually trying to counterbalance that and downvotes are really their only approach.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I have never downvoted personally but I have been following a downvote trail that often downvotes spams or things and y downvote goes with it. It is a healthy feature for us to decide and distribute value. It should be considered positive and reason for downvote should be found and improved.

I think that it is better if only both Witnesses and Community leaders will/can use Downvote system.

That's a form of centralization. As much as I don't like the abuse it brings along, or even the negative vibe which isn't great in a social media environment (but we are more than that, with our reward system), I'd rather have it decentralized than centralized.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Personally I don't usually downvote at all unless it's a phising link or so, truth is downvote is necessary and i've gotten some of it over the years, I however know a lot of people u think their posts are overvalued or undervalued but then this is because there's decentralisation of stake and this will continue being the case since people majorly vote based on their choices. Nevertheless when downvotes are used rightly I think its justifiable.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I don't downvote unless it is for a very good reason. Probably less than 5 times in a full year. It would have to be spam, plagiarism or something malicious. Other than that i don't like to see them.

"Good are bad"?
Downvotes are bad, but justified occasionally. For not spellchecking even the title there is no justification :)

shitposting is not about posting actual crap is about making fun of things with memes and intentional bad grammar :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

For the most part I’m neutral on down voting. I don’t think I’ve ever downvoted anyone, as I don’t think I should use it to penalize someone’s work.

I would use it as a tool to penalize a post that only serves to rally a hate group or something, as those aren’t representative of the beliefs and principles I want in my community, and I think we should all make it clear that this is a place to embrace the values of others not stifle them but so far I haven’t encountered that.

Regarding whale downvotes. It’s happened to me. Someone wiped out half of the most potentially profitable post I’ve ever written with the reason if simply they felt it didn’t deserve that much. It was infuriating for a moment as it felt a lot like bullying.

After all, just because you don’t see value in something doesn’t mean none exists. So, in that moment it felt like more of the same. Someone with power and a God complex with nothing better to do fills their day by crushing those without the resources to combat it.

I can’t say that post deserved or didn’t deserve the rewards that were building. I can say I’m not a professional blogger, writer, or author, but most people on here aren’t. I do know that I was momentarily discouraged from participation, as regardless if it was a good post or not it was something I put at least some degree of effort into.

So, I think the conclusion I’ve come to is downvotes are fine, as there should be a way to minimize abuse, but we really should be very careful not to use it carelessly. It has the potential to turn away people that may have something to the bring table, but just haven’t found their niche, yet.

On the other hand. We should downvote hate speech and misinformation into oblivion. It’s one thing to express an unpopular belief in pursuit of genuine debate and exchange of ideas. It’s something completely different to just spew bullshit to get people emotionally charged and counterproductive to the idea we want to flourish here, which I believe is we all have something to contribute and working together we can solve some really big issues the world faces.

I personally don't use the downvote button unless on a serious case like a clear case of plagiarism or when I stumble on phishing link. One thing I dislike about downvoting, is people using it to count scores i.e some form of attack on people they don't like.

About downvoting because you feel the post is over rewarded, that is a subjective matter, as we don't usually all like the same thing. Been in a decentralized system I believe people are free to post whatever they like as long it's original and it resonates with their audience


Posted via proofofbrain.io

I think the system needs a little tweaking. An author has no ability to decide who votes on their post unless they are buying up votes. The removal of rewards for over-valuation on a post is nothing the Author can do about, the Author is not the guilty party, the person that issued such a large reward is.

Down voting a post to $0.00 is I feel wrong in the case of what people see as over rewarded post and to track back for the entire 7 day period of post and zero them out is also very wrong and has nothing to do with a post being over valued.

If I see plagiarism I will down vote it, that is pretty much it. That is the authors fault and he deserves to have his reputation destroyed and all profits removed from all post past, present and future.

If a post is over rewarded, and the down vote is all about returning rewards to the reward pool, then go to the person that over rewarded the post pick one of their post to down vote, and state in the comments your post was down voted because I feel you over rewarded this post. Rewards removed and returned to the reward pool, person that was over rewarded gets a temporary rep and hive boost, and the offending over rewarder gets some of his reputation hurt and his pocket book hurt with out hurting the Original Author, and the original curators of the post.

Abusive down voting is and does happen to often on Hive. Perhaps people can come together and lobby for a new down vote system that can be implemented in HF 27.

LBI should stay away from downvotes. It’s that simple. Stay out of the drama. Individually owned accounts, sure have at it.

I never used - except when someone explicitly requested downvotes to remove rewards from a duplicate post - but I've seen it being used properly before so I believe it's something good to have around in case we need it

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I think there is obviously a need for downvotes, maybe a way of preventing it from being abused or used as a revenge option would be a good thing.

Not sure if thats even possible to be honest, but worth exploring

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I've had a change of heart recently and jumped on @enforcer48 down vote trail for @flagrewards. I was anti down votes but I have been watching the block chain and upvote circle jerks and it is extremely frustrating.

Especially when I put effort into creating a blog, quite often I will spend a fee hours reading, finding information and then correlating it into a blog post to bring people news and information that I think is valuable. Noting that a number of information about tokens I brought to hive have done well. I know a few people that invested into them and got good returns.

Quite often my blog struggles to break $5 I get super excited when I see $10 and then over the moon with anything above it.

I then have seen people like you say drop a post with 5 words and a crap picture get massive upvotes and no where near the same level as I have put into it. Happens quite alot.

The recent drama with PoB and I put effort into PoB votes only to find out more people just reward abuse. It's not easy for any project lead to handle on their own.

So fark it, I joined the fight. As a Hive Dolphin with a decent stack I am not that good on my own but standing with others it actually adds up. I have a duty to Hive and as someone who has and continues to invest actual money I need to protect that investment.

So yes, I am not down voting.

That being said, if anyone thinks they shouldn't have received it they can tag me into the offending post for review but I have 100% faith in the team in seeking out crap posts.

Yes I have been downvoted in the past, yes it hurts but you get over it and tomorrow is a new day.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

This downvote is for turning a bling eye on all the things you mentioned above that you don't downvote. If you see abuse, you should help HIVE out and level it out! haha