Never been downvoted but I care about the chain so I want to find a middle ground. @smooth You guys have done a great job at solving past issues with the chain, but this style of downvoting is eventually going to lead to a whole lot more drama. It's a leak in the ship that needs to be fixed somehow.
It's just a reminder of how much more power large stakeholders like yourself have and how little power the rest of us have (and a much more potent reminder than upvotes). I know it's getting better thanks to forks and that we want to incentivize people building bigger stakes but we need some more mechanisms to decentralize voting power and in the meantime, softer, more diplomatic downvoting, otherwise we will constantly leak support and energy.
We are doing our best but we are far from "Decentralized".
I shouldn't be scared of having all the support I've gained over 5 years erased by sharing this opinion with you right now. That's the main issue.
But I trust that you care about this ecosystem and so I risk it.
I'm not even into the whole truther community, but Kenny has done way more for the chain than he gets credit for (attracting a millionaire investor and a ton of users over the years, not to mention supporting a lot of good content, not only truther stuff, also the Cross Culture community that I run). I told him he should resist the accusations (even if he feels justified) and try to reason with you guys instead of rage quitting, but people get emotional when you hit them in the wallet.
A healthy ecosystem requires more complex solutions than "It's my stake, I can do what I want with it". If that was enough we wouldn't even need downvotes in the first place.
please consider being gentler with your downvotes, even when you hate the content. At the very least, explain yourself kindly and realize nuking peoples posts to 0 or near 0 feels like an attack and makes even those who you haven't targeted worry about what we can share and what we can't share. "Censorship-resistant" is nice but we want the place to feel fair and as decentralized as possible too.@azircon @curangel I'll risk getting on your bad sides too by tagging you,
If anyone decides to target me because I share an opinion like this and the community doesn't come to my rescue than this chain is not what I thought. I believe you will listen to reason, so I have to say something.
This kind of perpetual fear should not exist. That kind of control is counterproductive to creativity and authenticity, and will yield sugar-coated and incomplete content. The original point of all this was that a post promoting Hive, from a studied and seasoned Hive/Steem user was downvoted to zero, and the main reason given for the downvotes was to correct excessive rewards. The rewards were not leveled in the described way, they were eliminated completely, and at a time where no counter votes could occur. There are 605 accounts that supported that post, and it only took 3 to erase the rewards entirely. Why was that valued at zero with that many votes? This is clearly an issue guys.
Kenny's 2 min Steem tips video series (along with his countless hours of in-person training) is the sole reason I ever understood or even discovered this blockchain in the first place. I know for a fact there are many others with the same story. I watched him give entire seminars to groups on many occasions.
I feel that I risk a lot to speak my mind on this - but I should not be made to feel at risk in a truly evolved form of governance. It is my sincere hope that I can continue to add value to this blockchain through my original art, music, projects, contests, promotion of other Hive projects, NFTs, blockchain gaming promotion, onboarding, and in general high caliber, concise, and comprehensive publications, and that I will continue to receive the loving support I have earned through my years of hard work, and I don't mean only votes/rewards. The strength of networking in this community is where I have always held the most value. Is there any way we can establish peace bredren? Coming to terms on something here would provide a shining example of how Hive members can work out their differences to achieve massive leaps forward in the evolution of the community and how it is continuously co-created.
We do not have to agree on everything to exist together - we only have to respect one another. If humanity could apply this as a species we could see an end to all wars. We can start that movement of energy right now, how do we want this story to go? Thank you to everyone who has poured their love, passion, and lifeforce into this ecosystem - no matter what side you fall on in this debate. Much love hive fam - love you brotha Kenny. Growth hardly ever comes without pain... if anyone knows that, its me. I just lost the love of my life, and all my hope now is to help make Hive the best blockchain possible - is there anyone here not on board with that? I am down to discuss practical and agreeable solutions, respectfully and peacefully. We are here for each other. Blessings.
Also you created Tribesteemup, which of course is now Abundance.Tribe as a means to support content that focused on many topics, not just free speech or Conspiracy Theories (as some like to call them), the list also includes Non-Violence, Philosophy, Veganism, Mindfulness, Community Empowerment, Love, Original Music, Esotericism, Healthy Recipes, Psychedelics and Permaculture, which is such a broad range of topics.
Diversity is so important within any community and being able to embrace that diversity is what really makes communities thrive.
I like to see Hive as one big community and for sure we don't all have to agree, but we should at least allow others to be heard, to share their truth, without fear of retribution.
However, If there is evidence of plagiarism for e.g, by all means then we should intervene.
I have a lot of love for the many wonderful people within this community and for all that I have learnt and continue to learn from being a part of it.
I do hope that the platform gets to reach it's potential xxxWell @elamental and @selfhelp4trolls basically said all that I wanted to say. Especially when it comes to how much you have contributed to Hive Kenny. You have put so much time and energy into the platform and you are all about creating abundance for others.
Amen
I think ppl misunderstand the difference between respect and courtesy. Respect is earned and courtesy is given, until it's not shown to be appropriate. Respect is too much to ask right from the start and courtesy must be the first act, but the other party must also show they deserve it going forward by their reaction. JS😁
No "disrespect" intended but the view you express sounds judgemental. So, you're not respectful of anyone until you're done judging them?
In Jamaica, it's quite common to get a fist bump from a complete stranger and the only word spoken is "respect". Why, what does that mean? It does not mean that the two individuals are going to agree on anything. It just means, to me, that there's respect for another's freedom and right to be an individual and the same is asked for in return.
Lots of ways to look at things, not saying right or wrong, just saying what's my way. So, are you saying that Kenny has done something that you disrespect him for? That's not been my experience.
... we maybe just disagree.. that's okay
There's a difference in respecting the rights of all and respecting individuals without knowing a thing about them. Regardless of the word they choose to use, I call this a courtesy.
What do courtesy and respect mean to you? Are they interchangeable or do they have distinctive meanings? Is your perspective derived from the current casual definition used today or the actual meanings, loosely or accurately?
Perspective means a lot subjectively, but it doesn't mean one's personal truth is well, truth. Also, judgement is the most important thing we have. Would you respect a murderer? How would you know whether or not he is one without getting to know them? How about a pedophile or rapist?
Is your default respect or courtesy and when do they end or become solidified?
I argue that respect can only be earned on an individual level, which is not equal to the level you used as an example here.
Love first, judgement later. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. :)
😁
Thank you. Well said. I think there is a solution to this, but there has to be enough support from the people who develop stuff for it to actually become a topic of conversation again. The last two days I’ve been thinking about downvotes that cost money and hive proposal fund support for those who are looking out for spam (if they start downvoting for other reasons they lose they start behaving poorly we can fund different downvotes who look out for abuse.
Not sure how much this idea has been discussed
follow.Such calm and reasonable words in this heated debate. So good to read, thank you! I agree whole-heartedly. I've been looking at @selfhelp4trolls posts and videos, liking them a lot, but this comment deserved a
Thank you so much man. I will keep an eye out for your posts too
It appears to me that that is exactly the intention.
Don't think it is friend. My hope is that we shall see a workable facsimile emerge from ETH 2.0. Even the original creator of DPoS considered it a "experiment" which he chose to walk away from.
Dan walks away from everything.
I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt for now. They ignored me for a year over bidbots corruption and finally saw that it was a problem. Then they came up with a solution that I hated which turned out to be great for the chain. I think this is more of a problem of "how to organize society" (we are a little society), something which humans have struggled with forever. DPoS is imperfect, but so is everything else so far.
I know Acidyo to be a decent guy who cares about the chain, and I suspect a lot of people on both sides of every debate here are better than we imagine. But when you have power, you wanna use it, and we all only have so many hours in the day to understand each point of view. And most peoples accusations tend to turn into self fulfilling prophecies.
They haven't yet realized that the level of power they have is incompatible with the idea of decentralization. I think they will eventually. I'll stay here as long as I can find people who listen to reason, and I still can find many.
experimentReturn Proposal #0 ensures that it will not be used on anything unless the HF 20 Cabal gives it's green light. It is my feeling that only by starting at the ground up will the goal of a fair self governance be put back on track. Fixing this incarnation of DPoS seems as monumental as taking the dysfunctional out of the US Congress. It would make me happy to be mistaken on this point however my years of monitoring those involved does not give me much confidence in it happening.Good points, @selfhelp4trolls. It's the community that keeps bringing me back although convinced that this is broken. It was doomed with the Ninja Mined Tokens. There was that brief chance of making the fork from STEEM meaningful by simply leaving them behind; yet like Frodo's ring it was too hard for our Champions to destroy. Instead they moved it to a slush fund which @gtg's
I am not sure if it’s broken or not. Part of me feels that all economies will always be fundamentally broken, or that we still have a very long way until we discover how to unbreak. I still feel this is better than the world economy and all its potential social media competitors, mostly because of the diversity, which is why I want to defend that diversity. The only groups I might not want to defend are groups that are undeniably racist or sexist or looking to cause harm to anyone.
I just try to be where there is innovation, decency and opportunities and Hive still checks those three boxes as far as I can see. There just seem to be a tiny handful of people who can make it a much less pleasant experience for people they don’t like or for arbitrary reasons and so I’d rather stay out of anything that might stir them unless I have a chance to convince my followers or one of the decent whales, and I think there are more decent whales than most victims have given hive credit for…more than the indecent ones. It’s not always easy to figure out which ones are which though because few of them are good communicators.
This is an incredibly powerful statement and I have to admit I feel the same way sometimes when speaking up. It's wrong and none of us should feel that way. This should be a place to share our ideas and opinions and have a respectful dialogue. Unfortunately, some of the heavyweights feel the need to throw their money around just like the big bullies threw their weight around on the playground in grade school.
I can only hope that your last paragraph holds true.
Thank you. I was quite impressed with myself as I was nervous about who it might stir, though I do think that if you speak with an understanding tone and stay calm and patient there are people who will come to your defense (including whales and devs) because they understand this is a healthy conversation to have and they don’t want their investment to go to shit. That’s why I am not too scared to share anything.
The only issue is that as soon as you’ve been targeted, you have to be more adult than the person who targeted you because otherwise they use your reaction as fuel to justify their actions. It’s not just a hive thing. It’s true of all people who get into heated debates on anything. The only difference here (and the reason I think we need to keep brainstorming solutions) is that the monetization of our behaviors makes power disparities more pronounced. It sucks that the one who is being bullied has to be the adult to have any impact on the situation.
It’s my experience that most of the larger stakeholders aren’t malicious at all, and they care about the chain. There may be an exception or two though…..
I think anyone who gives up is missing out. Even if your rewards go to shit, this place is a fascinating experiment and a great place to find passionate people and deep connections.
I will always stay for the people I meet here, and unless I find another place with no ceo or company that is as diverse and capable of evolving, I prefer Hive.