Permanent HIVE POWER is bound to create imbalances in the system. As I understand the original design of HIVE left a huge block of HIVE in the hands of SteemIt Inc with the idea that this money would be used to fund projects through delegations. When Justin Sun acquired SteemIt Inc, he revoked the delegations.
Having a big block of permanent HIVE POWER locked in a @community321 account provides a reward for the next person who wants to pull a Justin Sun on the community.
Permanent HIVE POWER in individual accounts wouldn't work. It simply creates an incentive for people to sell their account. Even worse, it incentivizes people to borrow against their accounts.
BTW: I think the downvote actually works a bit like burning HIVE POWER. It removes the rewards from a post.
Thanks for the reply.
I definitely agree, you would not want a single account holding PHP. So, the intention I was speaking of was definitely in the sense of individual's holding it.
The incentive to sell accounts that hold PHP may be a bad thing. That was one of the things I had thought about, but I hadn't really explored the +/- and if there would be a way around that.
When thinking about PHP, there are a few different ways to implement it. One way is to create a burn address for each account, and the liquid Hive would be sent to that address with no spending output, hence burning it. This doesn't require sending to a central burn address like @null, but I'm unsure if current or new accounts could be set up to add a new burn address to a current private key. But, you would probably need this, because you wouldn't need an additional token to represent PHP, nor would you want that additional token sent to an address with spending outputs, or it would render PHP no different than HP because you may not be able to power it down, but you could sell/trade it. So, I believe the best option would be the actual Hive in he burned address per account.
So, if you decide you want to sell you Hive account and you have incentive because it has a large amount of PHP, that may not be a good thing. Now, technically today you could still sell an account full of HBD, Hive, and HP. It could be as valuable as a whale account, or a zero balance, or minnow account. Nothing stops you today, so would an account with PHP really be any different than selling a loaded account today, other than the fact that it is loaded with PHP that is permanent and cannot be liquidated? Not that I see.
But, you are correct, it could create incentive. It would be a safer sale than selling an account with liquid Hive and liquid HBD, in the sense that you could sell the account, take the payment, then immediately sending the Hive/HBD from that account, screwing over the buyer.
One possible way to do it though that could work is, if you change your master password/keys, it would destroy the PHP burn address and create a new one. The first thing someone does when receiving a purchased account is change the password so that the previous owner can no longer access that. I wonder if that would be a possible solution? That way if you were to sell the account to a new user, they would not receive he PHP address associated with the account? If you could not transfer the account to a new user, you wouldn't have any incentive to borrow against the account?
Just a thought. Thanks for your input.
I think the rewards go back to the reward pool. Downvotes affect reward distribution. It doesn't burn any rewards.
Correct. He said "like" burning. But you aren't destroying it. It will only be re-distributed to another user from the pool.
The initial discussion was about "burning Hive Power" with the idea of transferring HP to a @null account or some sort of @community321 account where it is off limits.
Putting it in a permanent state on one's account is not the same thing as burning.
HP is just a synonym for VEST. Permanent HP would be VESTING SHARES that cannot be turned into HIVE.
I do not see this as a bad thing.
I just wanted to bring up the fact that permanent VESTS segways into a discussion about selling accounts.
Personally, I do not see a problem with selling developed accounts. For that matter, developing a market for established accounts might actually increase the price of HIVE. A market for trading accounts would attract those users who see HIVE as an investment. These are the users that we need to increase the price of HIVE.
To make my next point, I want to give a wild prediction: I predict that, in 99 years, 99% percent of the people who are currently using HIVE will no longer be using HIVE. Since man is mortal, most HIVE accounts are finite in duration. Accepting human nature, we should have an end game for accounts. The best end game is that people should be able to transfer ownership of their account.
The value of permanent HIVE isn't that it traps people into their account. Permanent HP would turn accounts into equities that people must liquidate as a whole.
Permanent VESTS creates a situation where completely liquidating an account is no longer possible. That means the primary mechanism for leaving the platform would be to sell account.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this. I think it might be beneficial.
What's the problem if someone wants to sell their account? People can sell all their Hive now.
I agree that people should be able to sell their HIVE accounts. My HIVE account is still my intellectual property. I should be able to sell it if I wanted.
I wrote my post in a way to try to bring up this point.
The current design of HIVE treats posts as if they have no value after the first seven days. A better design is to create a system where each account builds value as people develop their account with the expectation that people might chose to sell the accounts that they develop.
Yes I see no problem there.
Also, why do you believe it would incentivize a user to sell an account that holds permanent value?
My original thought was that it would more likely incentivize one to keep the account, and use it more, because you have a permanent stake. I do think if there were a way to destroy the burn address so that if an account were sold, that it would not provide incentive to sell the account, but to double down on retaining and using it because the only way to get the value back out of it is by use since you cannot liquidate. Because even current Hive Power can be powered down and liquidated.
If I didn't have that option to liquidate, I feel like it would incentivize me to work through the problems on Hive and really try to add value to the space so that I can continue reaping the rewards of PHP.
I was thinking about people who decided to leave HIVE.
When people leave right now, they power down their account. This take at least 13 weeks.
If someone had a substantial amount of Permanent HIVE POWER. They would look to find a way to sell their account.
BTW: I decided to start a thread asking people their opinion about being able to sell accounts
I saw that and replied as well.
Thank you, I realized that this thread was distracting from your ideas on Permanent Hive Power.