The problem is actually quite complex.
It is really great to have such a demonstration against racism and I won't argue that, of course. The problem is the timing. The coronavirus is still among us. The first wave is over, and we manage to avoid the worst. But a second wave could still happen and we need to behave responsibly if we want to avoid that. Now, why is it not possible to enforce a demonstration where such a responsibility is built in? And I don't talk about the "1.5m rule". This is just one drop in the whole "responsibility context" I mentioned.
We had more demonstrations in Netherlands last week for the same topic. One was in The Hague at a prime location where always protests are held. This locations is huge, so the 1,5 meter was held mostly. People sitting instead of standing. In Rotterdam, similar thing, though the mayor stopped the demonstration when it became to busy. I guess, in Amsterdam it could've been stopped as well, Dutch are not know for rioting when we are told not to do something.
I hear you regarding being responsible and all. But I personal doubt the danger outdoors. Lots and lots of research and scientific information is becoming available that tells us that transmission of Corona outdoors is practically zero. Larger indoor events at which many people ate talking, singing and so on are seen as causing the super spread. So do I act irresponsible when I dont follow the 1,5 meter outdoors strict? I go against the rules instated by the government, thats true. But one can debate if the rules are the right rules. No scientific proof is available the 1,5 meter is the solution. Why not 2,5 meter? Or 4 meters? When somebody sings in open air and I'm down winds of such person, will droplets and aerosols not travel more than 1,5 meter? For sure, they travel up to meters to maybe even 10 meters or more (we can have a lot of wind on Holland :)) That said, scientists say: Aerosols are not of danger outdoors, they are evaporated within a split second. Droplets maybe not, but nobody can proof what the best radius is for that. For sure the wind is important. When I meet somebody that strictly want to keep distancing rules, I always move myself downwind.
Coming back to the protest in Amsterdam. Most people did wear mouth protections, so that shows these people acted responsible. The mayor allowed the protest, since the protest organisation didn't expect so many people showing up and the 1,5 meter distancing should not have become a problem at all with many people around helping to keep the social distancing rules. But she also didn't want to stop the protest for safety reasons, and I think because she felt this protest was just too important (which it was indeed in my opinion). The protest could've been held at a different location, larger in size. But here is the thing: Protests are always held at the Dam Square in Amsterdam. It is more than a tradition. When another location would've been enforced, we would've had a whole different drama unfolding. People would've protests against not being allowed to protest on Dam Square. Fact is that Dam Square is not that big.
Wrt timing, well, this timing was not debatable. The George Floyd drama did set all of this in motion. So timing, was more on the side of these police officers who went after George Floyd.
What I dont understand is after this protest happened, the government officials, advisors, and ministers didn't urge all the protesters to get a corona test done immediately: now and in a few weeks. This could've been so valuable for science! No, they just said: Please get a test done when you feel ill. Seriously? Its such government I have to trust doing the right things? They simply seem to be quite stupid. They don't see the opportunities when they present itself. Instead, they all bashing our mayor for five days now. As if that is what we need to get ourself back to the old normal again. I'm loosing all the trust in them. Though I do follow the rules most of the time, I'll be following my own rules more and more. These are not necessarily the government rules (and soon to be laws).
Just to make it clear: I have no strong opinion in one way or the other with respect to this demonstration itself. I am in fact quite divided. Yes it is important to have it happening now. What I meant by "timing" was having the two events occurring at the same moment (organising demontrations in a COVID-world). I was not really discussing anything else except the matter of facts the two were happening simultaneously. This is a bad timing and we need to live with it.
This means that the sanitary conditions should be accounted for. We don't want any demonstration to be the trigger of a disaster in two weeks (in any case, we will know in about two weeks...). In an ideal world, both could be dealt with together. Has it been done? Well I don't know, I wasn't there. According to what you said, I feel that it was not done. Just testing everyone would have been the thing to do, probably. I am not a politician but I have never understood why this is not how the COVID crisis was dealt with in Europe. Let's just test everyone, and confine those who are positive. A matter of money, maybe?
For the record, I did not say everyone should be separated by 1.5m from each other and all this distance thingie. I have said that everyone should be responsible. I agree with you there is no proof behind this "rule". Seeing however how people in France behave, I am afraid that rules are needed where common sense should suffice. That is sad.
Thanks for your response! I didn't mean to put words in your mouth :) Guess this topic is still getting me into a state of wanting to fight and be vocal about some of the stupid things happening.
The narrative is that the number of tests in NL was way to little to test everybody. Not sure this was a money thing, possibly more intellectual property rights and the owners not wanting whatever factory to produce the tests. By now, the statement in NL is that anybody who feels ill, can get a test. Guess we have larger quantities of test available by now.
Agree, when we need government rules for people to act 'responsible' we can forget about societies without rulers. Though I think the majority of citizens (community members if you will) will start 'behaving' more when we don't have rules, or too many rules. Not that the mass will start thinking themselves, but they will start following people in their own circles and copy what they do. But we need to get to a state where the government is not imposing rules, and we need to work more on spreading the awareness to do what is right, regardless of a rule to try and enforce what is right. But that in itself is a whole other topic then what you commented with :)
Also, regarding on how the government is dealing with that, trust must be restored. Governments people cannot tell people they don't know things when they actually don't know things. Instead, they prefer to be vague and invoke some nonsense bullshit. This is not how people will start listening :(
Anyways, let's see how those things evolve.
PS: concerning the tests, another issue is the number of false positives / true negatives. I think the situation is a bit more controlled now, but I can't be sure (this is out of my zone of comfort and I need to do some research about that, which I didn't find the time to so far).
So much information is available, and also contradicting. This indeed requires lots and lots of time to research everything. Something I didnt find the time to as well. That said, I wonder if we can make solid conclusions based on all the information available, but I'm always in favour of assuming various 'truths' and start trails/tests based on the various possibilities. Like scientists do, I would like to see different scenarios being tests around the country, even better, around the world, ie we all work together.
I have chatted earlier tonight about this 2.5 meters thingie and I thought about our discussion. At the hospitals, it is a 2m distance that is in order, as this is the distance relevant for most existing viruses. So while there is no "proof" in the strict sense, at least there are some reasons behind it. But then enter the politicians... :D
Thanks! :) Cool to learn its 2 meters in hospitals in France. FYI, the WHO says 1 meter, in my country its 1,5 meter. Sure there is some reasoning behind it, that I understand, still dont understand the truth in the varieties. Today I signed a petition against the 1,5 meter distancing law that is planned for July to become effective. 200k+ signed up already, so large enough for it to pass our parliament. I do hope our government can be convinced to throw the law into the bin. Every day, I see more people becoming activists. But the official news channels are not talking about this, they simply follow what our government says. Smells fishy.