I tend to side with @agmoore on this. The technique of a collage is the instrument to create an impression. A certain technique like a sophisticated animation can of course impress by itself but this would be true for the complicated montage of a still collage too. In the end, it's about what the final artwork conveys in the viewer's subjective perception. Animated or still, oil or aquarelle, color or black and white - everyone should use the techniques and tools that they are most comfortable with and which they consider the ideal fit to what they want to achieve.
As for my part, I do in fact tend to favor still collages and I sometimes find motion elements distracting and not useful to enhance the artistic impression of a collage. As it's impossible for me to exclude my subjective preferences when it comes to compiling the shortlist, I'm thus quite confident that at least the finalist panel is not biased towards animated collages (beyond their quantitative share).
Regarding the outcome of the final poll, I'm also not under the impression that certain techniques are really decisive for the community's choice. Nor is it the objective artistic quality of a collage, if such a thing even exists. Rather, it seems to me that the effectiveness with which a finalist is able to encourage their own network to participate in the voting is key for the outcome. This might coincide with those better connected participants having a preference for creating animated collages. At the same time, I think there was a good amount of still collages amongst the Top 3 in the past rounds too.
Going beyond this topic, the impact of popularity on the result of community vote is the main reason why it wasn't feasible to skip the shortlist altogether, something we explored for a few rounds. This clearly disadvantaged the more artistic and skilled contributions beyond a healthy extent.
I do think that popularity by itself should be allowed to have a positive effect though, as it is often a result of commitment and engagement with the community. And engagement is maybe the most important contributor for a positive experience in the LMAC and hence for being attractive to newcomers. However, popularity obviously shouldn't be a too decisive criterium in an art contest and to balance exactly that is for me the key task and purpose that I try to accomplish with the shortlist.
In the long term I'm committed to hand the compilation of the shortlist into community hands too. We basically have to at some point if we continue to grow like we currently do. My pair of eyeballs simply can't scale beyond looking at one collage at a time;) Transferring this to a jury, for example, seems to be an obvious approach, but again involves its own difficulties for which the appropriate solutions have yet to be found.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. It not only helps me to consolidate and share my own thoughts, but also shows me what I will pay even more attention to in the future.
Personally, I'm heading over to 'school' to see if I can pick up some tips 😄.
Wonderful to be aboard,
AGHi @shaka,Thanks for that clear explanation of your community goals. It's good for all of us to understand these. As usual, you are completely transparent. Hope you enjoy your vacation.
So that I got it right. Would you suggest actually having two contests? One for the stills and one for the animated?
If so, I would personally support such a suggestion. Simply because I love creating collages with momentary expression. I would also like not to bow to a trend just to have a chance in the polls because it would be less fun.
A splitted contest or a splitted poll could be the right way.
My humble voice here, @quantumg. I think the art transcends the style. I think we are capable of looking beyond technique and evaluating imagination, originality, skill and effect. These are quantifiable no matter the technique used. Art after all is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Critics have been trying to define art forever, and always they fail. Because we kind of know it when we see it. And, this is a community curated (after @shaka picks the finalists) event. Let the people speak. It's really not about winning. It's about creating and relating. At least for me, it is.
Yes that is true. It's not just about winning. Yet the spirit of sport encourages many. Challenge cancels the standstill, advances development. Partially this also applies to me, besides the fun aspect.
I noticed that too. So with me, 3 people noticed it and it makes sense to think and talk about a possible solution.
Because when it is true, that animated posts were favored by the community, it wouldn't be cool for those who don't want to make collages in that style.
And it wouldn't mean that the "mainstream" looks beyond the technique and the style, by logic.
This is not a bad criticism of the community. There is no problem, there are only solutions.The starting point of this little discussion was the conclusion by @tobetada and then @brittandjosie that animated posts were favored by the community.
Anybody can learn. When I started I put farm animals on a hill. Then I made a collage with Martians but couldn't get them to move forward. They only went in reverse. @tormenta once explained that she didn't know how to do GIFs. Look at her now. It's an open market. There's school (as you know). Quality drives quality. I don't see anything that needs a solution. If people seem to prefer movement, then we learn how to do movement. But stationary collages win prizes. So, there is no problem. Only progress. I think a dynamic environment where we all play off each other is the best for artistic growth, for personal growth.
Of course it's not an even playing field. If it were, we would separate the professional artists from the amateurs, the practiced from the unpracticed. We could start making all kinds of divisions. But we don't. The result of our open competition is remarkable variety. Each of us trying to come up with something new, something original, something that will wow the audience. That's the best way, in my humble opinion.
I love opportunity, chafe against restriction. Don't make me choose whether I want to do one kind or another, fit in this category or that. Don't let me start calculating which is more likely to garner a prize. Let the games begin. Let the energy flow. That may be the impulse of a rank amateur, but this is after all an amateur contest.
You are a skilled artist and know a lot more about this than I do. But I love the contest the way it is. I just wish more people would avail themselves of the learning opportunities and I really would like all of us to support struggling new members more than it seems we do now.
There...a long answer. I'm not an artist, but I am a writer :))
Its not my choice I am not the founder I am just a big fan. Animated gifs are great and I love stills aswell and to compare is a hard job. But Dpoll decided
Thanks for bringing this up @tobetada and thanks for engaging in the discussion @brittandjosie, @quantumg and @agmoore!
I tend to side with @agmoore on this. The technique of a collage is the instrument to create an impression. A certain technique like a sophisticated animation can of course impress by itself but this would be true for the complicated montage of a still collage too. In the end, it's about what the final artwork conveys in the viewer's subjective perception. Animated or still, oil or aquarelle, color or black and white - everyone should use the techniques and tools that they are most comfortable with and which they consider the ideal fit to what they want to achieve.
As for my part, I do in fact tend to favor still collages and I sometimes find motion elements distracting and not useful to enhance the artistic impression of a collage. As it's impossible for me to exclude my subjective preferences when it comes to compiling the shortlist, I'm thus quite confident that at least the finalist panel is not biased towards animated collages (beyond their quantitative share).
Regarding the outcome of the final poll, I'm also not under the impression that certain techniques are really decisive for the community's choice. Nor is it the objective artistic quality of a collage, if such a thing even exists. Rather, it seems to me that the effectiveness with which a finalist is able to encourage their own network to participate in the voting is key for the outcome. This might coincide with those better connected participants having a preference for creating animated collages. At the same time, I think there was a good amount of still collages amongst the Top 3 in the past rounds too.
Going beyond this topic, the impact of popularity on the result of community vote is the main reason why it wasn't feasible to skip the shortlist altogether, something we explored for a few rounds. This clearly disadvantaged the more artistic and skilled contributions beyond a healthy extent.
I do think that popularity by itself should be allowed to have a positive effect though, as it is often a result of commitment and engagement with the community. And engagement is maybe the most important contributor for a positive experience in the LMAC and hence for being attractive to newcomers. However, popularity obviously shouldn't be a too decisive criterium in an art contest and to balance exactly that is for me the key task and purpose that I try to accomplish with the shortlist.
In the long term I'm committed to hand the compilation of the shortlist into community hands too. We basically have to at some point if we continue to grow like we currently do. My pair of eyeballs simply can't scale beyond looking at one collage at a time;) Transferring this to a jury, for example, seems to be an obvious approach, but again involves its own difficulties for which the appropriate solutions have yet to be found.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. It not only helps me to consolidate and share my own thoughts, but also shows me what I will pay even more attention to in the future.
Great to have you all aboard!
Personally, I'm heading over to 'school' to see if I can pick up some tips 😄.
Wonderful to be aboard,
AGHi @shaka,Thanks for that clear explanation of your community goals. It's good for all of us to understand these. As usual, you are completely transparent. Hope you enjoy your vacation.
I saw that to, maybe we need to ask to split the stills and the animated ones
So that I got it right. Would you suggest actually having two contests? One for the stills and one for the animated?
If so, I would personally support such a suggestion. Simply because I love creating collages with momentary expression. I would also like not to bow to a trend just to have a chance in the polls because it would be less fun.
A splitted contest or a splitted poll could be the right way.
My humble voice here, @quantumg. I think the art transcends the style. I think we are capable of looking beyond technique and evaluating imagination, originality, skill and effect. These are quantifiable no matter the technique used. Art after all is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Critics have been trying to define art forever, and always they fail. Because we kind of know it when we see it. And, this is a community curated (after @shaka picks the finalists) event. Let the people speak. It's really not about winning. It's about creating and relating. At least for me, it is.
Yes that is true. It's not just about winning. Yet the spirit of sport encourages many. Challenge cancels the standstill, advances development. Partially this also applies to me, besides the fun aspect.
I noticed that too. So with me, 3 people noticed it and it makes sense to think and talk about a possible solution.
Because when it is true, that animated posts were favored by the community, it wouldn't be cool for those who don't want to make collages in that style.
And it wouldn't mean that the "mainstream" looks beyond the technique and the style, by logic.
This is not a bad criticism of the community. There is no problem, there are only solutions.The starting point of this little discussion was the conclusion by @tobetada and then @brittandjosie that animated posts were favored by the community.
Anybody can learn. When I started I put farm animals on a hill. Then I made a collage with Martians but couldn't get them to move forward. They only went in reverse. @tormenta once explained that she didn't know how to do GIFs. Look at her now. It's an open market. There's school (as you know). Quality drives quality. I don't see anything that needs a solution. If people seem to prefer movement, then we learn how to do movement. But stationary collages win prizes. So, there is no problem. Only progress. I think a dynamic environment where we all play off each other is the best for artistic growth, for personal growth.
Of course it's not an even playing field. If it were, we would separate the professional artists from the amateurs, the practiced from the unpracticed. We could start making all kinds of divisions. But we don't. The result of our open competition is remarkable variety. Each of us trying to come up with something new, something original, something that will wow the audience. That's the best way, in my humble opinion.
I love opportunity, chafe against restriction. Don't make me choose whether I want to do one kind or another, fit in this category or that. Don't let me start calculating which is more likely to garner a prize. Let the games begin. Let the energy flow. That may be the impulse of a rank amateur, but this is after all an amateur contest.
You are a skilled artist and know a lot more about this than I do. But I love the contest the way it is. I just wish more people would avail themselves of the learning opportunities and I really would like all of us to support struggling new members more than it seems we do now.
There...a long answer. I'm not an artist, but I am a writer :))
Be well.
AG
( Hello, @shaka, if you read this.)
Its just community talk and maybe sharing new ideas for the future while the succes is growing
Its not my choice I am not the founder I am just a big fan. Animated gifs are great and I love stills aswell and to compare is a hard job. But Dpoll decided
I know. But anyone can make a suggestion in a community.
For me too. It is often not possible to apply the same decision criteria to all works when deciding who gets a vote.
And the community is growing so hard so maybe ......
could make sense, as I think it is technically more challenging to make animated ones
Totally agree it’s more levels of work BUT a great still can also be a winner ( I am proof 😉)
I think that could be possible given the growing number of the community and participants