One unique aspect of pregnancy though is that there are two bodies involved. Not just one. I agree with a woman's right to do whatever she wants with her body. I also believe that there exists a right to life. But if the right of a woman to do whatever she wants with her body conflicts with the right to life then I see the right to life as being more important. That is why to me the important question is about when the right to life begins. If I understand correctly, you believe that the woman an child can determine that on their own, I'm not so sure. I say that because I think many abortions happen out of fear vs. a "conversation" (for lack of a better word) between mother and child.
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The main difference between us is that I associate life with consciousness and you with a physical body.
I will not be able to convince you, ever, because consciousness must be felt separated of the body in order to be convinced. If you are interested, you may google "out of body experiences in dreams" as a starting point.
That's not quite true. I associate life with consciousness / the soul as well. It's just that I don't think that we as humans have a firm grasp on when that comes into existence. Hence I tend to err on the side of it existing earlier rather than later.
Understood. I jumped into conclusions too fast.
I can only speak for myself when I say that I am in a close connection with my soul self and not just intuitively. Moreover, I do believe that pregnant women receive clear messages from their fetuses' souls and their own (based on a survey I made with my three sisters when they were pregnant) :-)
Well, I guess I'm not convinced your sisters represent every woman in the world :). Certainly their are many women who don't even believe in a soul or in the ability to communicate that way. I tend to think that there are many women that have an abortion out of fear of the responsibility a child will bring because the pregnancy was unexpected or unintended and in that state of mind wouldn't necessarily be in tune with such things. In any case, even if every single woman in the world did in fact know when their baby gained a consciousness, would every one still base an abortion decision on that? While this discussion is way beyond what the law could reasonably decide at this point, would a woman who had an abortion knowing their unborn child had a consciousness/soul be a murderer (morally speaking)?
Let me ask you this -
In nature, some creatures kill their newly born cubs. Are they murderers in your eyes?
Please don't tell me it's a different thing because these are animals and we are talking about human beings.
My point to make is that there are unseen, unconscious elements, instincts if you will, that drive behavior, and women who feel the urge to do an abortion follow their inner voice, just as the animal chooses to kill her cub out of mercy and empathy.
And no one but the mother can feel and know that instinct.
Personally, I think it is a different thing. However, sure, they are murderers. Probably in some cases anyway. I certainly believe, generally speaking, that a woman who intentionally kills a newborn is a murderer (there may be exceptions of mercy, obviously i can't speak to every single case). Serial killers have instincts too. The point of that statement is not to say that an abortion equates to a serial killer, just that instincts aren't always "good". At some point, an individual gains a right to life no matter what the mother thinks. When do you think that is?
...and that's the point of difference between our opinions.
I consider life as including the soul level (whatever that means to me), not just the flesh or the shape of a fetus. A fetus, therefore, becomes an individual not before his physical birthing.