You are viewing a single comment's thread from:

RE: Do Animals Suffer?

in StemSocial • 3 years ago

This post had me feeling prickly all over. I checked under my chair just to make sure 🦂

Do scorpions have sentience? If they do, it's probably a rudimentary and "primitive" sentience. Just check that picture of the mother with her baby scorpions, if that isn't "love", then I don't know what is. That is very uncomfortable (and possibly dangerous) for her, so there must be a mechanism that prevents her from shaking them off. We can call this mechanism "love," a type of pleasure that is a quality of sentience. But it's a primitive love based on the immediate needs of survival. Mama is gonna hold on to them until they're old enough to go and fend off on their own. With a human, it's more complicated. Therefore, love as a variable, is more complex. I suspect that if we dig scientifically, then we're going to find the same with other aspects of sentience. Right now, the roadblock that I see is that there is no adequate operational definition of sentience.

animal sentience refers to the ability of animals to experience pleasurable states such as joy, and aversive states such as pain and fear.

This is a rather broad definition, and as you indicate, it's difficult to measure even in humans. But even if we were able to precisely measure it, surely we could find that any organism is capable of feeling pleasure, pain, and fear on some level. If not at the individual, then at the group level. We're then left with a moral conondrum, if all organisms have sentience, then should we stop killing them all? Impossible, given that, as you indicate, our survival depends on the destruction of other organisms. So, then on what basis do we decide whether to kill one organism or another? Right now, it seems we base our decision on size, intelligence, and aesthetics. Environmental agencies do work with plants and animals that are not in many people's radars such as frogs and moss. So, there is work being done to protect them not just on the basis of the qualities I mentioned but rather on the role they play in the ecosystem.

I read about some Buddhists monk who made a vow not to kill any sentient being, and since they believe all animals are sentient (possibly reincarnated humans), then they only walk a few steps every day to avoid killing animals, even insects. That's one way of doing it, though clearly not a feasible lifestyle for most of us. So many conondrums!

Wonderful article and fascinating (in a prickly kind of way) topic.

Sort:  

What a thoughtful comment--but then, you are @litguru :)

if all organisms have sentience, then should we stop killing them all

I think we can start by being thoughtful when we kill. By that I mean, it should cost us when we take a life. I believe (my philosophical,ethical perspective--not scientific) that all life is related. When we start creating hierarchies based on ability or utility, then what are we really saying? Does a disabled person without measurable cognitive skills have less value than someone with superior intellectual ability? Is the serf worth less than the lord? Do we value the suffering of one over the other?

Jainism came to mind when I wrote this. It's all very difficult and I have no answers except for this: If we insist that is is necessary to kill, then we need to be aware that we are taking life, that we are making a choice. Even when we use resources, cut plants in order to provide for ourselves, be aware, be judicious and respectful.

Animal experimentation certainly comes to mind. How many guinea pigs and frogs have been sacrificed in high school science classrooms when that information can as easily be obtained from a textbook? I tested this once: told the college bio lab teacher I didn't want to dissect an animal. She told me OK, as long as I could pass the test, which was to identify organs in a dissected pig. I studied diagrams and passed with flying colors. Think of all the pigs that were wasted that year, in that one class. Think of all the wasted life, all the suffering inflicted on animals in all the laboratories, for no real purpose.

Well I did go on, didn't I? Sorry....

Thanks for stopping by, @litguru and commenting.

It is definately a complex problem. Maybe 3D printed meat will save the day.

As an anecdote, I was on a trip to Spain once, when I saw a documentary on octopus intelligence. That same day, I went out to a place where everyone was drinking wine and eating octopus. That's the tradition there. Imagine me surrounded by all those happy people drinking and eating octopus. Had I not watched that documentary, I would have partaken of the octopus party. As it happened, I did not. I still regret it in my weak moments, but to this day I have not touched another octopus. :)