clayop did some interesting analysis on trending of hive and steemit only 6 days in. He noticed more engagement on Hive and wants to consider making a better rep system.
Also slq is up, so asher will be back to measuring engagement.
To say we aren't headed in a better direction with more communication would be silly. I know the foundation regularly created attendee lists and MOM.
I think my point is some things are best left centralized and opaque.
Money and visibility is good for all. I am hoping visibility come first and bith are well deserved.
Well I'm certainly not attempting to halt communication. There could be a lot more if it had a place. People simply stop looking at the trending page once it's overrun with what I had mentioned, and then a lot of the important messages don't get read. Then people are angry they weren't informed.
Currently I don't mind seeing all the rapid recent developments taking center stage. I think it's great, and it's kinda fun to show off.
In the future once more curation is happening and things settle, these messages will get lost. I think it's wise to eventually give this stuff an important home, plus give the content producers a platform they can thrive on. Shooting for one of those win wins here.
You'd be among the last I'd accuse of trying to halt reasoned and sincere conversation.
I just don't bother checking trending. I follow who I want because I like their work or the quality of they promote. Besides I follow a few people who are good at getting the news. Decentralization of media is important.
The trending page is fine now. Hive developments, new dapps, news etc should be most important for now. It's new, exciting amd important. It's also the best time to be paying attention and mentioning important ideas, before they are burried.
We all want a winwin and I think we are well on your way to get it.
I'm interested in this important home you mention. There are already people linking links and even artists telling the story. Perhaps we will see a magnum opus "the birth of a real decentralized social network". It's happening now so its too soon to tell the story, best observe or try to be an active part.
I agree with the new and exciting stuff. But you just said:
That's common, so the news isn't read and that content producer who did something incredible doesn't gain the advantages trending status is meant to provide. Don't you find it odd someone you never heard of is trending, the post is great, and there are no comments under the post? That should be their busiest day. Should be gaining more followers. Seeing more votes from people who don't normally vote on their work.
We need to build trust in the trending page again. Much of that trust was lost after the bidbot disaster. Now folks can do well and nobody even notices, or people see money beside a post and assume it's trash for some screwed up reason, and won't even look, because it's trending and trending has a bad name. That's ridiculous and I hope it changes. It sucks being treated poorly for doing well. Blocktrades and those involved are kicking ass, all while some folks are only looking at the superficial element of a simple post with an image and two sentences. Give that stuff a home, it doesn't get buried, it gets seen, and doesn't leave such a huge dent in the reward pool. But again, these days I'm fine with it, it's fun showing off, but in the future I won't tolerate it. There has to be a better way and it has to benefit everyone as equally as possible. Working together not stepping on toes.
I actually agree with you and as someone who has spent most of my time here trying it showcase content that will attract outside eyes, in - I totally get where you are coming from.
This part though is a bit unfair -
As much of the “news” sometimes is a way for stakeholders to reward contributions (or it has been in the past). Some of these contributions are pretty vital and help everyone, including content producers. Now perhaps that needs to change and these contributions should be handled differently and we can work towards that.
What I do think is that our tools in the past have sucked ass and there is no reason we should all be required to see the same stuff. Imo there shouldn’t be one “trending” really.. we should have the tools that allow content discovery that highlights content producers, gets them more eyes, and brings eyes in.
Some of those outside eyes want to read about Hive and crypto, some want to look at art and photography.. or read a rant by one of their favorite entertainers.
The issue is that in the past it’s all just be thrown into one place.. I mean if I’m scrolling on Instagram looking at portraits, a damn post about crypto popping in that feed would be odd and vice versa.
We need better tools. We need better UI/UX and we need to showcase the content we have here in a way that is easily digestible and draws in an audience. Good news is.. we can do that! Just have to be patient and work together. Honestly we are closer than we have ever been imo.
That quote had more to do with the folks who've decided the trending page simply isn't for them. Those people aren't reading the latest news hitting the top slots or seeing the variety of content hitting top slots from time to time.
Steem was looking pretty decent when I showed up like one day before shit really hit the fan. So wherever we were at, at that point, combined with this rejuvenated spirit to get shit done; we should start seeing some results.
I should have started my original comment off with a 'thank you'. I just dove right in and kinda sounded prickly but that wasn't my intention.
The current trending page on Hive reminds me of the early days of Steemit. Everyone is pumped up though. I personally feel these folks, yourself included, deserve to be rewarded for these efforts behind the scenes. It is a lot of Hive content though. Probably too much but we have to deal with it, for now.
People are grumbling though, as they will. Patience and teamwork though. You're right, I agree, and hopefully anyone else reading can see where we're at. There's a lot of previous experience to learn from and I have trouble believing anyone here wants to fuck this up.
What I'm suggesting isn't taking rewards away from anyone though. Could have a 'trending' tab and a 'Recent Developments' tab side by side, everyone gets paid and the consumer can find the important behind the scenes stuff easily. I feel that information is valuable but does not mix well with what potentially thousands of contributors also have to offer.
Maybe someone will come along with an even better idea. I can handle that.
I agree it needs to be improved for sure, and I believe that is the plan. I do hope people have patience though.. as while it may seem like the fork was ages ago to some.. the web wallet just went up.. people are still working hard on the aspects that go into setting up a project.. I'd say they have gone back into curating yet.. I know I haven't.. as I sit up for the 8th night in a row spending hours filling out the most intense applications for exchanges and market cap ratings that people seem to just think happens. There is a lot to do.. and just looking at the trending page.. yeah it fucking sucks. But I'm gonna need everyone to just understand that we will get there.
First we should probably have a platform that actually works though.. and a coin actually worth something.. so content creators have somewhere to share their work 😅
This isn't directed at you btw.. we do need better tools, better content discovery and a better trending.. I guess it's just disheartening to see the complaints already starting when we literally are still getting things up and running. Sure doesn't make me want to stay up to 3am again working on stuff 😂 but damnit we gotta build it before they can come!
Hey! Everything you said is exactly why I said I'd tolerate it, for now. LOL!
I get it. Some people don't get it. Maybe they will get it after all these words. Maybe not.
I think it's doing a fine job of showing off, which is cool. People should be proud of this. It's a big deal, no doubt.
I know everyone is working hard back there.
Everything I'm talking about is for the future. Not right now. It's actually nice to be able to say there's a future. That's a new recent development as well.
Thanks.
I've never understood the people who get to trending and don't comment, especially with blogs and the way things work now. To me it's exciting. Okay, maybe if you are a celebrity and have a social media manager or bot sending selfies to everyone who comments on your stuff :)
I'm not sure if 'all' (or '.' for the computer nerds out there) is a good search term. One thing that came up when the Koreans were first making their demands as 'subscriptions' no one clarified it, but I do think SMT would make this possible somehow. I'm not sure how it can be envisioned, but we did have a nice conversation the other day on the eventual and desperate need for consumers. I'd probably vote for something that fixes trending or develops subscriptions. Tips are okay, but it's very basic and won't draw in many big names.
That said I'm so glad the bidbots are gone. I do wonder will they dare to ask in a couple of months? I wouldn't be surprised, but I'll shut that down quickly. I already found a few scumbags on Hive and noticed I'm not the only one. We are already on the right track for finding abusers.
I think it would be neat if someone could come up with a completely different system for giving rewards. Some people ask really good questions and promise upvotes, but I'm sure if we are creative we can find even better ways to do it. As long as it isn't like those scummy campaigns from when airdrops were huge (get 100 hive if you spam other social media relentlessly for the next month).
I think even giving someone who is already proven to be good at getting discussions going 1000 Hive a week to hand out in tips and prizes for contests on various social media (it must link their hive post) would be great.
Try to get some people who don't mind to show their faces and their families too, let them know there are real people and not just bots here.
We have tons of talent, but too often I just see meme contests, these appeal to a very select few. I'm sure we have a ton of people who could do promotion and I remember seeing something to onboard for 100SBD a day. It seems like the smallest marketing budget in the world. I guess we gotta make it worth visiting first. And at the very least wait for the drama to cool down a bit.
It's gonna take 4 months or so for most of the drama from people powering up and down to settle...and a lot of people with too much time on their hands because of quarantine.
A 'subscription' here is as simple as purchasing Hive and powering up right now then using that to support the content and people you enjoy. Except unlike traditional subscription models, one can have their money back at any time if they decide to cash out, plus they'd have earned rewards on top of that.
For the life of me, I can't figure out why I'm so alone when pointing out that is a far better deal than the traditional subscription method. It's a good deal to the consumer and even those who aren't on the receiving end of upvotes benefit, provided enough demand for the token is created with this realization.
Why should a consumer 'tip'? That's throwing money away. Again, all the consumer has to do is make a one time token purchase, and then tip their favorite content and people, for life. When the consumer is done, they get they're 'tips' back. Again, I can't figure out why people can't see how that's a far better deal to the consumer. Even those who are no recipients of tips using this NEW model we have here benefit from consumers purchasing tokens to upvote, rather than subscribe or tip.
Do people want to create demand for the token or do they not want to create demand for the token? It all boils down to marketing. The consumer only understand "Pay money, get entertained." They throw their money away to the tune of billions annually. Whereas here on Hive, the consumers money stays with the community, increases the value of the community, and they get their money back if and when they want it, provided other content consumers are still buying in in this fashion and creating demand for the token.
Of course, without quality, there's nothing here for the consumer to purchase. Behind the scenes they're purchasing a token, but the reality on the surface is they're purchasing information or entertainment of their choosing, with the option to have their money back, plus be rewarded or "paid to be entertained" along the way.
Registering yet? LOL.
Hive is great to use for subscriptions and so is delegationing hive. We already have a few examples.
However with SMT it will be branded and models can set their own rate (I suspect most will ignorantly go with free fall inflation that would make Chavez smile from the grave).
We actually have a house renting model like this in Korea called Jeonse. I put a deposit on my apartment worth 50~80% of the market value and live there rent free. I get it back when I move out. Koreans understood steem well, I doubt it is a coincidence.
Tipping is a good model too. For example in North America people are obsessed with tipping culture. It works great when you dont want any commitment. Services need to anonymize it. This is good for vice services.
Ultimately I think hive needs to use a combination of all these models. Some businesses can choose one or another and others can choose them all.
You are right that the deposit aspect makes it risk free, especially if HBD was actually pegged, however I suspect SMTs again could introduce a real peg like usdt (sure there are issues, but they are still around right?). The issue now is hive has a crazy value, so the question is what will it be worth when someone gives up? A real peg will solve that issue.
When I've looked into how online game companies and other online companies work, I've noticed something about the successful global ones. Try changing the country, language, etc by vpn or just selection. Localization is huge. Most business on Steem with miney just focus on English speaking North American and European culutres. The chinese live micropayments, the westerners love subscriptions. Discount tokens when purchased in bulk are a type of subscription model.
I think I need to find a new way of explaining my vision.