I just started new voting campaign. This time I'm voting only on users who have no outgoing delegations and are not blacklisted by spaminator. I don't care for the ROI, trying to spread my votes to as many users as I can (check my voting history). In many cases my vote is the only vote they get . Your delegation helps a lot.
If you prefer delegate to accounts that are here to maximize their ROI only, like cryptoandcoffee - https://hive.blog/hive-174578/@abh12345/73mjaj-the-hive-engagement-league or you want to support circlejerk (sbi) or selfvoting (huaren.news) then go ahead and cancell your delegation to me
Ps. I do follow @mmmmkkkk311 dv trail and will keep supporting it
I have checked your account stats and to be fair you have been spreading your vote out to quite a number of accounts which is good and a positive move. I can't however let my SP be used in support of anybody targeting HBI holders as for a lot of people just joining the chain it is the only support that they get on their post for a long time.
I think it's a great project and totally disagree with the actions of @mmmmkkk311 on this matter. That account has driven away a lot of potential users through downvoting small and innocent accounts harming the chain far more than most.
You can see that I am fully supportive of helping others and spend a lot of time promoting the chain especially on twitter https://twitter.com/hive_blockchain
but it is people like that that are hurting our growth and driving away users.
There needs to be a positive experience here to attract and retain users if we are to do better than the old chain. I can't stop you from supporting that person but hopefully you will think about what they are doing and realize that it's not the way to build a community platform. I'm also sure that @cryptoandcoffee can do more to support other users and help the community while he grows his account but it's our largest stake holders that set the example for everybody else and we saw how that went when they were all getting involved in flags wars on the old chain and drove away more people every time.
That is why I will politely remove my delegation to your account for the sake of HIVE evolving into a better platform. I would like to see more people helping and supporting rather than downvoting and creating negativity. We still need to watch for abuse but this is not what it looks like, especially HBI.
That's a great point. If downvotes are used effectively, they can help secure and protect the chain.
But malicious downvotes like this, hurts everyone. Including the accounts doing the downvoting. Without users , HIVE is nothing.
Funny you say that I delegated to @curangel this evening and to @ihealyou. I am still waiting for more Steem to come across and will find more cases for delegation. I am not a bad egg and will always help wherever I can.
@time thanks for your response and for your curation efforts, the only issue is the use of the downvotes to attack other users. SBI has a right to exist on the chain, they do help new users and downvotes just discourage adoption of the platform. I kindly request that you do not target them.
Thank you @thecryptodrive for supporting HBI and trying to find a solution.
Hey mate, I haven't really got into this conversation before and am no whale, nor do I know your particular beef with SBI/HBI, but what is the issue?
I think the ROI on it is a very long time, isn't it - and doesn't it require posting and engaging to get a return? Also, people are often using it to reward other users for prizes and stuff. From my experience, it has done more good than harm as it has kept many people interested, especially when it has been used as prizes.
I used to give people small amounts of SBI as engagement prizes which they highly appreciated, but after the downvotes they received, I now power them up some HIVE - it has a different effect I think and I believe that the SBI was taken as more of a reward, as it had longevity, even though the return (as far as I remember) was far in the future for anyone.
I think that overall, the draw on the pool through SBI is quite small and it is heading out to many users who are encouraged to keep active. It also keeps HIVE powered up and actively distributing. If there is a harm, I think in this case, the pros outweigh the cons. What I do think though, is flagging users who have no idea why they are really getting flagged (remember they are often bought for new users to encourage engagement) is more harmful to the UX of smaller users on the platform - and that isn't great.
Interested to know more.
In the past my only issue was the lack of info on SBI and when I mentioned that I'm usually not a big fan of automation or something like that and without even picking sides since I also mentioned I knew so little about the project the owner stopped responding and shortly after unvoted our witness so it didn't make it any easier to try and get to the bottom of it to pick a side when knowing enough info and them acting so defensively about it usually raises red flags. So my next question would be what's in it for the creator of SBI/HBI and can this service exist without middlemen taking a cut if that's the case and if the manual work is still so minimal from that end yet there are positives that come from it thus there's a demand for it.
Of course I'm not against good ideas being rewarded but in public blockchains there needs to be room for competition, undercutting and improvements but it's hard when the info seems hard to get a hold off and the owner gets defensive when someone asks to many questions.
Thanks for weighing in. I apologize if I seemed defensive before. That's not how I recall our previous interaction, but then somebody doesn't usually realize they're being defensive until called out on it.
I have usually tried to be very open about how SBI/HBI works. Our codebase is open source, and we have an FAQ and tons of supporting documents explaining how everything works. When we were posting every day, the links to FAQ and support documentation were included in every post.
We have made witness changes for lots of reasons over the years, so I couldn't say whether the witness change was because of our conversation. If you seemed hostile to me (which is likely if I responded defensively) then it probably was related.
As community members have brought concerns to me, I have tried to weigh concerns and responded when it seemed merited (including removing rewards for upvoting SBI posts, even though they funded 30% of our voting power).
I recall that you had some concerns about our comment voting, and I was not in agreement at the time. I later decided that you were right, and we have not voted on any comments in a long time.
I take an override of 5% on all sponsorships (rewarded to my account as bonus units that give me a chunky vote whenever I actually post). Because I don't post often, I actually use those for airdrops, supporting community initiatives, and paying the writers and interviewers that created content for SBI when we still posted regularly. I don't receive any other payment from the program.
If it brings an end to the attacks against SBI/HBI members, I would be happy to remove my 5% bonus units from all new sponsorships. My current stack of bonus units I need to facilitate membership conversions from Steem and reward as prizes for upcoming contests that are planned).
I don't post that often anyway (except comments).
Thank you for the detailed comment and explanation, I have to say I have nothing against HBI now and considering the amount of users that find value in it and believe it brings value to the chain it should be a "let the free market/wisdom of the crowd" decide type of thing.
Also it's fine, I sometimes also get defensive over my projects when the stance of the accusers are hostile and illinformed but I thought at the time I was making it clear that I lacked knowledge about it and I believe @snook had asked me if I could weigh in my opinion on it. The witness thing just seemed like it happened shortly after and while the unvote itself is okay doing it for such reasons isn't imo, but maybe that was also a mixup and I was remembering someone else doing it.
Anyway, thanks for clearing that up and rethinking the comment voting.
Ok, I will not waste my time anymore. I'll stop downvoting it, but I think, soon we'll get to the point where I have started: hundreds, sometimes thousands of STEEM transferred to sbi daily
@ctime here is another person, (whale) as you asked for, that supports HBI.
Thank you so much @acidyo
Not sure if they take a cut or much of a cut tbh, but I do think that it has some effect on engagement and retention on the platform.
While it is automated on the vote (as it votes a lot), the people who have HBI have at least "often" been chosen based on their activity. For example, the ones I mostly gave to where from the number I sponsor (10) on the Engagement League. I would put a couple SBI for them, as at least on that week, they likely put around 200 comments onto the chain, and unlikely got paid much for it. Getting that small vote from time to time probably matters to them.
Most sponsorships have been based on contests of some sort, and we used to run a twice weekly post that listed all the contests giving SBI as prizes. About two-thirds of SBI members were sponsored by others and never paid anything in.
This is an interesting metric to look at. Thanks for adding some information. Out of curiosity, what is your own return?
I 100% second this. Totally my thoughts.
The advantages are much more than the little disadvantages.
The last time I calculated this it took almost a year for some ROI. Actually, mmmmmkkkk311 once laughed about it in a comment because in his opinion the vote you receive is so small. Still, he thinks his investment is in danger and he needs to protect it with downvotes. Perhaps he missed some hours of math at school.
So additionally it's also a long term investment. Who invests in HSBI plans to stay for a long time, especially if you keep reinvesting.
HIVE ON!!!
Thank you @tarazkp for supporting HBI.
Respectfully, as a new user who isn't a whale and has limited avenues to grow my account, HBI is something that when I was gifted one from another user absolutely made my day.
I also think it's a little sad that you only want to listen to whales. I get why, I think, since their opinions can make or break us regular users - but they also account for the smallest portion of the community.
The majority so far have asked that you stop downvoting HBI owners, and I have to agree with them until I hear a compelling reason why HBI harms HIVE.
Exactly!!
You said it perfectly!
Personally, I think we are critically low on users and had hoped this SBI/HBI downvoting would cease.
I'm no longer involved with Steem and so couldn't care less what happens over there, but hopefully you choose not to downvote on Hive. Your choice of course.
Thank you @abh12345 for supporting HBI!!!
I have no problem with SBI/HBI because I believe everyone should be free to conduct enterprise on chain as long as it is professional and some people find value in it. I don't feel they should be attacked for running an enterprise.
That's because you're a fucking slimeball that runs trashy/scammy services.
I don't like what you're doing. I think I'll just oppose all of your votes moving forward. Who is going to delegate to you at that point?
I also don't really care for this HBI handout nonsense, but, you're just a dick.
If he is a dick then who you are?
Your worst fucking nightmare.
There must be something wrong with your ego
Goddamn you're fucking weak.
Are you out of your fucking mind? Again?
For slaughtering a trash account? Trust me, there's far more coming.
Let's see. Anyone who downvotes this account will get lifetime downvotes from me, even you
Still not seeing any downvotes...
Is that supposed to be a threat, little man?
You have no idea what you're getting yourself into.
Pretty sure you'd never be able to keep up with downvoting me. I'm still waiting...
Pussy? Where ya at?
I thought you were going to give me a lifetime of downvotes? Where are they?
So where are those flags?
Your buddy downvoted me even though I played by his rules and havent purchased an SBI unit for almost half a year. What he's doing is now malicious and does nothing to help HIVE.
I see you upvoting a ton of people and helping, thats what makes HIVE awesome. His downvote trail is now going after people that followed his 'rules'. And as he said 'I get downvotes for life..?'
I dont think he yet understands how harmful that is. If we were spamming or what not, by all means, downvote...But for people just trying to promote HIVE and create an amazing community...Frustrating.
I have no idea what is wrong with you. You do so much good yet you cause loads of damage at the same time. I work on my ROI yes but I also upvote comments and will find users where I can. I am in the pricess of converting Steem to Hive and I am going to be adding to my delegations which i started today. One because of you actually.
I still don't get what the problem is as growing new users by offering SBI/HBI was beneficial and was something we could all give.
Well the history is...MKKK got his bot business ruined by HF21. So this is his way of getting back at HIVE. He says SBI is a circle jerk and upvoting scheme.
When all it ever was, was encouragement for newer accounts to see some payback from their efforts. Because it's not like these he's running around supporting new accounts and helping onboarding.
I think it's all done out of spite, has nothing to do with helping HIVE
I think it is exactly that and is all in spite and hatred to everyone on here. We had nothing to do with what happened to him. He is trying to make me look bad and I wont allow that as I have worked too hard to have that happen. I have a thick skin and will delegate more when my powerdown from steem comes through to help others. This needs to be fixed for all of us and new users joining. HBI is a user retention tool and is very important.
It's massive.
And I'm not sure how anyone can see it otherwise. I work with hundreds of HIVE members and they continuously tell me, HBI (SBI) was the only support they got when they first started out, and it kept them learning, growing and creating.
Hell, I dont even need the shares to sponsor...But a share into the DHF or something, i dunno...The only reason I wanted to see HBI grow was for the retention tool it was. And it was very powerful....
Again, speaking from someone who actually works with people daily to help them learn HIVE lol Not just running around downvoting people who are just trying to learn.
I agree and this needs to go higher and the community needs to decide. One account or two accounts cannot dictate and bully people just because they can for now. I wish I was a little bigger. Can't believe he has the audacity to try and show me up trying to make ROI on my Hive Power either. Very few of us vote comments and believe making some up here and there is imperative.