What happened?
About a week ago, I posted a Splinterlands blog where I talked about a couple upgrades to my common cards from the Rebellion Reward Set. The blog received a big downvote worth about 4.5 dollars from @themarkymark. Without any explanation in the comments.
My research
As it was my first downvote ever, I was quite surprised and perplexed. I didn't understand why I had received the downvote. So I took a look at my blog first. Had some kind of mistake crept in? Did I perhaps tag the blog with the wrong tags or publish it in the wrong community? No. Of course, I was also able to rule out obvious things like copying content, insults or other such things.
example 1example 2example 3So I took a look at the account and especially the activities of @themarkymark. At first sight, everything looked normal to me. It was even a Hive Witness. In the activities I then saw that several blogs had been downvoted by @themarkymark. These were almost exclusively Splinterlands-themed blogs ( by @kalkulus, by @scfather, by @hector077).
I also became aware of a blog by @olaf.gui, which also received a downvote from @themarkymark. We had a brief exchange about the downvotes in his comments. He explained to me that @themarkymark has repeatedly given blogs a downvote in recent weeks and months if they have received an upvote from @bdvoter. In my experience, @bdvoter is an account that frequently upvotes blogs that are submitted to the Splinterlands Social Media Challenge, among others. If I understand it correctly, @bdvoter is supposed to take advantage of a mechanic on Hive that @bdvoter gets more rewards if @splinterlands distributes a big upvote afterwards. That's why @themarkymark is trying to counteract this by downvoting the corresponding blogs. I'm not absolutely sure if I've understood and explained it correctly, but that's not the point here.
Fact is, @themarkymark has a problem with @bdvoter and therefore downvoted my blog and many others.
By the way, I tried to contact @themarkymark several times to talk to him. However, I never received a reply via my pings on X, Discord or Hive.
My opinion
It may be that @themarkymark has good intentions. I'm not accusing him of anything bad. It may also be that what @bdvoter is practicing is an exploitation of the system. But these downvotes really harm and frustrate the individual authors of blogs that have nothing to do with @bdvoter. These are usually small fish on Hive or even new accounts that quickly lose interest in Hive and leave the blockchain again or become inactive. This is collateral damage that should not be accepted. As a Hive whale and also a witness, @themarkymark should simply be aware of the consequences of his actions.
If something is to be done against @bdvoter, then it should hit this account directly and another way must be found. At least a short explanation from @themarkymark would be appropriate for his downvotes. Without some sort of communication, the authors of the blogs are left in the dark and frustrated.
This incident also showed me the dark side of Hive. My blog has received over 100 upvotes from various accounts. And yet, in theory, a downvote from just one person is enough to deny a large portion of the rewards. Without any kind of explanation or justification. Without me having done anything wrong or deserving the downvote. I find it very worrying that something like this is possible.
What do you think about this issue? I'd be really interested to hear your opinion and I'd be very happy to have an objective exchange in the comments!
Was ist passiert?
Vor ca. einer Woche habe ich einen Splinterlands Blog veröffentlicht, in dem ich über ein paar Upgrades meiner Common Karten aus dem Rebellion Reward Set berichtete. Der Blog erhielt einen fetten Downvote im Wert von ca. 4,5 Dollar durch @themarkymark. Ohne irgendeine Begründung in den Kommentaren.
Meine Recherchen
Da es mein erster Downvote jemals war, war ich ziemlich überrascht und verwundert. Ich habe nicht verstanden, wieso ich den Downvote erhalten habe. Also habe ich mir meinen Blog erstmal angeschaut. Hat sich irgendein Fehler eingeschlichen? Habe ich den Blog vielleicht mit den falschen Tags versehen oder in der falschen Community veröffentlicht? Nein. Auch offensichtliche Dinge, wie das Kopieren von Content, Beleidigungen oder sonstige derartige Dinge konnte ich natürlich ausschließen.
Beispiel 1Beispiel 2Beispiel 3Also habe ich mir den Account und vor allem die Aktivitäten von @themarkymark angesehen. Auf den ersten Blick sah für mich alles normal aus. Es handelt sich sogar um einen Hive Witness. In den Aktivitäten sah ich dann, dass mehrere Blogs durch @themarkymark einen Downvote erhalten haben. Hierbei handelte es sich fast ausschließlich um Blogs mit Splinterlands als Thema ( von @kalkulus, von @scfather, von @hector077).
Außerdem wurde ich aufmerksam auf einen Blog von @olaf.gui, welcher ebenfalls einen Downvote von @themarkymark erhalten hat. Wir tauschten uns in seinen Kommentaren kurz über die Downvotes aus. Er erklärte mir, dass @themarkymark in den vergangenen Wochen und Monaten immer wieder Blogs einen Downvote verteilt, sollten diese von @bdvoter einen Upvote erhalten haben. Meiner Erfahrung nach ist @bdvoter ein Account, der unter anderem Blogs, welche bei der Splinterlands Social Media Challenge eingereicht werden, häufig einen Upvote verteilt. Wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, soll @bdvoter dadurch eine Mechanik auf Hive ausnutzen, dass @bdvoter mehr Rewards erhalten, wenn @splinterlands erst danach einen großen Upvote verteilt. Deswegen versucht @themarkymark dem mit Downvotes der entsprechenden Blogs entgegenzuwirken. Ich bin mir nicht absolut sicher, ob ich es richtig verstanden und erklärt habe, aber darum soll es hier auch gar nicht gehen.
Fakt ist, @themarkymark hat ein Problem mit @bdvoter und verteilte deswegen meinem Blog, und auch immer wieder vielen anderen, einen Downvote.
Übrigens habe ich mehrmals versucht @themarkymark zu kontaktieren, um mit ihm zu sprechen. Jedoch erhielt ich über meine Pings auf X, Discord oder Hive nie eine Antwort.
Meine Meinung
Es mag sein, dass @themarkymark gute Absichten hat. Ich unterstelle ihm da gar nichts böses. Es mag auch sein, dass das was durch @bdvoter praktiziert wird, ein Ausnutzen des Systems ist. Aber wirklich schaden und frustrieren tun diese Downvotes den einzelnen Verfassern der Blogs, welche mit @bdvoter nichts zu tun haben. Meist sind das kleine Fische auf Hive oder sogar neue Accounts, denen dann schnell die Lust an Hive vergeht und die Blockchain wieder verlassen bzw. inaktiv werden. Das ist Kollateralschaden, welcher nicht in Kauf genommen werden sollte. Als Hive Wal und auch Witness sollte sich @themarkymark den Konsequenzen seines Handelns einfach bewusst sein.
Wenn etwas gegen @bdvoter getan werden soll, dann sollte das diesen Account direkt treffen und es muss ein anderer Weg gefunden werden. Zumindest eine kurze Begründung von @themarkymark wäre bei seinen Downvotes angebracht. Ohne irgendeine Art von Kommunikation werden die Verfasser der Blogs im Dunkeln stehen gelassen und sind frustriert.
Dieser Vorfall hat mir außerdem die Schattenseiten von Hive aufgezeigt. Mein Blog hat über 100 Upvotes von den verschiedensten Accounts erhalten. Und trotzdem reicht theoretisch der Downvote von einer einzigen Person aus, um einen großen Teil der Rewards zu verwehren. Ohne irgendeine Art von Begründung oder Rechtfertigung. Ohne dass ich etwas falsch gemacht habe oder den Downvote verdient hätte. Dass so etwas möglich ist, finde ich sehr bedenklich.
Was denkt ihr zu der Thematik? Eure Meinung würde mich wirklich interessieren und ich würde mich über einen sachlichen Austausch in den Kommentaren sehr freuen!
Your post rewards do not belong to you until it passes over 7 days.
I do know the downvote came because of bdvoter upvote, but the way you guys are reasoning is not actually right. There is no exploiting going on. The downvoter has been targeting bdvoter since 2023, It is his personal problem/jealousy with bdvoter. He hurt bdvoter curation with his alt account in 2023, then he targeted bdcommunity and successfully forced me to move my curation from bdcommunity to splinterlands. He paused a few months then he started again with these new excuses. The exploit they are talking its not my fault or exploit, it's not like 5-minute windows where I am snipping like it used to do in the past. It's a 24-hour window and it's open for everyone to upvote, so why should I not? Also, I am not only curating spl posts I am curating other topics posts as well & It is not like I am the only person who curating spl posts on the first 24-hour window, lots of other whales/minnows curating as well, so he doesn't have problem with others but only against bdvoter. This is called politics, so I suggest you not get involved with it. Now some of you might say stop curating spl posts I did that as well, but he still keeps going after my upvotes (@olaf.gui knows this because he reached out to me about why I am not curating spl posts). Even when Spl curators curated between the first 24 hours, he still downvoted those as well. So the so-called exploit is just a lame excuse.
One thing you have to remember is that Hive is a DPoS-powered blockchain, in short, " everyone is free to use his hive power however he wants." So keep growing your Hive stake and participate in Hive Governance. That way you will be able to understand the hive blockchain and fight against the bully.
I never said you were exploiting anything. In fact, I have said several times that you aren't, you're just upvoting as normal, as many people do, it just so happens that the way Hive voting works, is not very good for a manual curation system like Splinterlands has. It's very difficult for a team that includes people from different time zones, with their own jobs, to vote within the first 24 hours.
I couldn't disagree more with the narrative that everyone should accept downvotes as they do upvotes. I've seen discussions about downvotes in reddit and those don't even have any monetary value. A downvote has very negative effects that go beyond taking away rewards. Ultimately, they drive away people. It's one thing to use them to punish bad behavior or for spreading misinformation. It's another to use them just because you disagree with someone or even have a personal problem with them. We should not encourage bullying.
I want to make one thing clear, in case that may have come across as misleading: I don't understand the alleged problem between @bdvoter and @themarkymark in any depth and that's why I don't want to imply anyone is exploiting a system. So I apologize if that came across wrong.
And it's not really about the rewards. The time I spend publishing my blogs, I could have a part-time job and I would earn a lot more.
My point is rather that you should perhaps leave a short explanation if you get such a big downvote, because a downvote on Hive is rather “unusual” in my opinion. As the author of the blog, you think about what you might have done wrong. I think this scares off new users in particular.
Manche Downvotes haben hier echt Spielplatzqualitäten. Wenn es sich bei einem beschränkt würde ich mich jetzt aber nicht weiter daran stören.
Schöner wäre es aber tatsächlich, wenn man bei einem Downvote auch einen kleinen Kommentar hinterlässt und einen Grund erwähnt.
!hiqvote
Sehe ich auch so. Ich war anfangs auch verwirrt, bis ich etwas recherchiert habe.
Gibt bestimmt auch andere Leute, die nicht recherchieren und dann einfach frustriert sind.
Part of me understands the reason for downvotes, but another part of me understands that it drives people away from Hive. If they get downvoted into oblivion, they'll just leave the platform altogether. I think a downvote should have to have a very good and valid reason. I read your post and there was no justification for downvoting it.
I guess my advice would be not too try too hard to ruffle feathers about it, though, because then you'll get some real negative attention and eventually you'll end up with a low or negative rating. It's unfortunate that it has to be that way. To live in fear of speaking up for yourself because you know that some people have a lot of power on the platform.
!LUV
(1/1) sent you LUV. | tools | discord | community | HiveWiki | <>< daily@flummi97, @sharkmonsters
I'm not worried about the downvote or future downvotes. Even the fact that I get fewer rewards as a result is not so bad. I just wanted to try to clarify things with this blog and keep on going.
Thanks for your comment! :)
Joa. Is halt so oder? Ich meine ist nur ein Downvote. Tut vielleicht weh, aber eigentlich ist das nur so ein Menschengefühlsdings an sich, auch mal negativ abgestraft zu werden, obwohl man vielleicht garnicht Denkt das des für einen anderen Negativ war.
Ich glaube nicht, das @themarkymark der Fall wirklich Persönlich ist oder er es Persönlich meint.
Ist halt seine Meinung, ich meine würde er dich Upvoten tätest ja auch nicht viel dazu sagen wollen. :-)
Ich vote mich selber manchmal Down... weil es kein anderer macht. Selten mal. Ich würde gerne mehr Downvotes haben.
Magst Du mir eines Geben?^^ Hihi, dann hätten die Leute ja wieder was zu reden. Warum der Flummy den Alu gedownvotet hat. Hahah-
Ich fände es Witzig wenn wir des mit dem Hive und den Einnahmen auch von der Seite aus ein bisschen Unernster nehmen täten.
PS: Mit Splinterlands nicht so Dicke zu sein, dürfte schon auch Verständnis diese Perspektive zu haben erreicht haben. Gibt halt die Dunklen und Hellen Seiten an so ner Sache. Für Marky ist sie Dunkler. Für mich auch. Aber ich Vote deswegen net Down, weil dann müsste ich viel Downvoten. :-)
Soviel dazu.
Dir gute Tage und angenehme Nächte gewünscht.
Sascha
Ich stimmte dir zu, ich glaube auch nicht, dass @themarkymark das persönlich meint oder den Leuten etwas schlechtes will. Er hat ja gute Absichten.
Und an sich stört mich ein Downvote auch nicht, aber auf Hive ist es meiner Meinung nach so, dass ein Downvote eher "ungewöhnlich" ist. Ich verteile sie zB nur, wenn Falschinfos verbreitet werden, Content kopiert wird, andere Leute beleidigt werden, usw...
Earnings on your post can go up and down during the 7 days till payout. Anyone can upvote or downvote and don't need to explain themselves. You don't ask why bdvoter drop you a big upvote, then why would you question if someone downvotes you? The upvote didn't take anything away from you or damaged you in anyway.
I raised exactly the same question when I received my first big downvote of $6 many years ago. After someone explained to me that earnings are not mine till post payout, I felt totally fine about everything and accepted that this is how decentralisation works.
I don't necessarily care about the rewards, but a downvote like that simply triggers a negative feeling in you. And you ask yourself what you did wrong.
In addition, a downvote on Hive is rather “unusual” and that's why I think a short explanation would be nice.
Downvote is a feature of Hive, it's not unusual. Just like you have likes and dislikes on web2.0 apps. If you were a content creator on FB or IG or YT, you wouldn't get upset if someone 👎your content and ask them to explain their action. You'd probably shrug your shoulder and move on.
Please note, I'm not endorsing the dv on your post as I don't know what's behind it, I'm just trying to explain how things work on Hive. I see you started off playing SPL and moved into the blogging side, and that's great, we need people more people to dive into the wider Hive ecosystem. I hope this episode won't put you off Hive - you shouldn't if you understand how Hive works.
Don't worry, I'm still having fun on Hive and will continue to do so. The downvotes also have their justification.
Nevertheless, I would still say that downvotes on Hive are rather “unusual”. I don't know the statistics, but I would simply estimate that this is 99:1.
And I also find the comparison with YouTube somewhat difficult, as there are simply a lot more dislikes distributed here in general. (Are there still any dislikes on YouTube at all? I don't even know :D)
If you really must know, it's 0.245% 😊
Downvotes are primarily targetted for spammers and abusers, though sometimes there are collateral damage
As I see it, these downvotes are better to just ignore, although they can feel bad for authors that are not aware of what is happening.
As it is, the upvote value from bdvoter plus the extras that follow that voting trail, is still more than the downvote removes, so its a net positive.
I hope that the involved parties can sort this out eventually.
I've gotten a bigger downvote from themarkymark than the upvote from bdvoter once lol. And the last one even happened before I got an upvote from Splinterlands.
I'll probably just ignore it in the future, unfortunately there's nothing you can really do about it. Nevertheless, I wanted to address the issue and perhaps enlighten one or two people who don't know what's going on.
Yeah, its much easier to accept it once we know its not about the content of the post 👍
The present downvoting system has driven away countless users. @berniesanders was the meanest baddie back in the day of me still being a PoS Believer. It's nice to see that @themarkymark might still have a care for the chain. He seemed an ok fellow when interacting with him in the past about points of disagreements. Bot votes seems to come to mind as one such issue. My advice is to keep trying to contact him and he will probably try to make it right with you.
Yes, the vote and downvote system simply has its disadvantages.
I also think @themarkymark is fine and he is actually acting with good intentions. But the “side effects” are unfortunately not so great for little Hiver.
Maybe he just didn't notice my contacts, which can of course also happen quickly.
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