The reason the conversations are on Discord isn't due to transparency constraints but because its impossible to have a normal conversation in comments and we do not have a good chat option as of yet that records to chain. People need to be able to answer "yes", "no" etc and use reactions as they want to. Hive blog comments are not suitable for a long discussion of a few words per statement.
Spaminator is decentralized in respect to its technical operation. I'm using the word "decentralized" here as most blockchains use it; while their nodes are operated by one person they are still located in different parts of the world. As Spaminator is a very large bot, it requires several pieces of key infrastructure which is distributed.
Cheetah was a hands-off bot. There are no members to it. The only former members of the entire project (who were Steemcleaners) are myself and Logic and neither one of us is a founding member. We had nothing to do with the initiation of the project. The rest retired and have been replaced.
I think the issue here is not Spaminator or Hivewatchers but how people see downvotes. All of the comments so far weren't very much in regards to the projects but based on downvotes and the fact that they exist. The community seems to enjoy downvotes as long as they are never on their own posts. The problem in my view with how this entire discussion always gravitates to downvotes is, as you and everyone else here knows, part of the reason that the hostile takeover and the loss of Steem to privatization was successful was because one individual wanted downvotes to be eradicated from use on certain types of posts. Over the years in general the use of downvotes went from their intended use of adjusting rewards to something seen as an attack. This is a bigger discussion than any project.
So first off. Thanks for the fair and IMV open-minded response.
Discord
We'll have to agree to disagree with Discord. As a crusty old IRC user, I find the Bling of Discord or any of the other IM services unnecessary. It was only recently I was tricked into signing up for an XMPP account. I suspect. Discord offers only one advantage, Speed? In terms of replies. So I'd argue that the conversation logs could be posted back against the original accusation on Hive to give a paper trail. I realise that's extra admin, but what price does one put on transparency? I'd argue it's worth every effort.
Cheetah
I really disliked Cheetah. It struck me as an entity, out of control, stalking the blockchain. I'm not sure, saying, "But I never started it; I just joined along the way!" is an argument. You were part of the Cheetah project, so I have to repeat what I said: "How does changing one's coat change one's behaviour"?
Downvotes
Now that we can both agree on. However, it would help if you kept in mind that both, in this instance, are mutually connected; it's almost a chicken and egg situation. I suspect the only way to break that cycle is to no longer have Hivewatchers/Spaminator downvote, but that would then make them toothless, and this is the crux of the problem for Hive as a whole Money if there weren't any money involved, nobody would give a tinker's fart. However, that's not strictly true, as you'll always find a group willing to bitch at just about anything!
STEEM
So I was fortunate enough not to have any funds taken on STEEM, but that was then, and this is now. Supposedly we have a better world on Hive, and I'm not really interested in attempts to tailor what Justin and Ned did to cover up any cracks or inconsistencies that appear on Hive.
I can't make up my mind if there are a lot of naive people on Hive or a boatload of clever people that have managed to sell the idea that all the bad people waved us all off at the STEEM quayside and only the good people disembarked at the promised land of Hive. That's insane! Pretty much everyone moved to Hive, good and bad. Some retain accounts on STEEM. Some have one foot in STEEM and one in HIVE. I would say that things are better on Hive, but that doesn't mean we can let our guard down and give up on making improvements across the board, including Hivewatchers or Spaminator if enough people think it's warranted.
Let me be crystal clear. I'm not on anybody's side other than my own, but I can't stand by and say nothing when I see clearly wrong things, even if a group of individuals think it's right.
I'm not a fan of Discord but there's no better alternative for now. That may change and I hope it does, especially if Discord starts collecting user data in an invasive way like Whatsapp does. We're watching what they're doing carefully. It's not realistic to use comments. There can be a better way on Hive but it has to be built. I do have some ideas but I can't take it on right now, there is a pile of deliverables waiting.
Cheetah is not something I can speak for. It's not mine, I can't operate it even if I had the code, it's not worth discussing at this point.
Yeah, what people have suggested before is instead of downvotes to limit the visibility of accounts on frontends. We won't go that route. The other train of thought in suggestions was to turn Spaminator into a low-quality-content tracking bot but I refuse to do that. Both avenues are extremely immoral.
On Hive we're still dealing with the fallout from Steem years. There was a lot of toxicity built up. I have an old post somewhere about it. It's not going to get fixed in just a year. Completely agree on improvements, that's why I welcome all discussions. We're pretty much on the same page.
Thank The Pond Gods for that!
Mmm? I agree about data harvesting. I do think conversation logs are OK in a public dialogue. Obviously, in a DM or PM, that would be up to both parties to authorise. I'm a bit of a zealot when it comes to transparency unless there's an excellent reason why something should be kept from us, for example, personal safety etc.
Totaly behind you on that. If Hive is a Free as in speech....... platform, people will have to learn to accept there will be folk who will say and possibly do things they do not like. It's about how we educate them to modify their activity OR! Accept that maybe we have the wrong attitude, but we can only come to that conclusion through dialogue; simply shutting someone down diminishes ALL OF US because we've failed to resolve a problem and resorted to drastic measures.
I wrote this the other day. You might want to think about my suggestions, or not. 🤷♂️
https://ecency.com/hive/@dickturpin/re-wilmetcalfe-2021715t10921298z
Yes, there was/is a witness running around downvoting anyone who says anything nice about STEEM. I find that behaviour totally offensive, even more so given it's a Witness.
A. We should demonstrate we are better and more mature when it comes to STEEM and freedom of speech.
B. More importantly, and I cannot overstress this! IMV, Witnesses should be beyond reproach because to me, they should be setting an example to all of us; that's why they were voted into a position of trust.
That would make me very happy if everyone was on the same page as me. Bwahahaha. 😉
Enjoy
We don't do anything in DMs. We're not allowed to by scope. Everything must be in public Discord.
We can't shut someone down through a downvote. That's the educational issue we still need to deal with and the relic from Steem-thought. Once the new FAQ is out the ball will get rolling on that.
Yeah the witnesses who had their money stolen are likely downvoting. Steem has no freedom of speech. It's just a corporate website run under the guise of decentralization. In truth, there is nothing left there. It's like taking a public park, turning it into a golf course, and the locals still thinking its a public park.