Is there any evidence that schooling has the effect of making people more docile or is that only hypothesised? It's not enough for it to make sense, there has to be proof of some kind, none of which really appears in the video, enticing as it is to accept the point on face value.
For example, why have prisons at all if schools work so well to make us docile? Why do we have a so-called society collapse? Why do the police have any job at all if we're so obedient?
Further, are those constitutional rights applicable to minors? If so it should be one of the largest scandals possible. That it is not make me incredulous it is an appropriate criticism. That said, why should children not have those rights?
It's true that children have fractional rights in our society, and that's probably a good thing. But your other questions are like, "Do we have proof that beating/drugging/indoctrinating a child is bad for them?" We simply should not experiment on children. Full Stop. If we would not allow ourselves to be treated in this manner, then we shouldn't treat other human beings that way. Especially those who, because of their undeveloped state, have less rights than us. The situation is unnatural and repressive, and proof of damage is not needed to stop it, proof of harmlessness and benefit is needed to continue it.
To your question of jails, no one ever said it worked perfectly, and recently, many schools have given up on even trying to instill a love of order. Instead they have been raising rioters. And it is certainly working. I could (and I have in the past) written whole posts on why State School "socialization" is the last thing children need.
I tend to agree with you, the burden of proof should be on the person or persons wishing to do such and such. However claims must be substantiated, regardless of what they are. And to be practical, we find ourselves in the situation where not only is institutional schooling normal, it is law with very real consequences if broken. The claims should be seen as something to be backed up not because harmless much be proven and so on, but because there are great many people still in need of convincing.
For the record I am not intending to give you a hard time, but to test the rigour of this because it is useless to me otherwise. My children are before school age and I'm very much considering the coming years where I will be forced to make a choice.
I'll read your old posts, I'm sure they will be interesting.
I just now started discussing homeschooling here. My years of homeschooling are over. You can probably find my old posts in various homeschooling forums. But you should really read the very open claims of the "Prussian Method" and Horace Mann.
The whole idea, of surrendering our children to the State to be educated as the State demands, is instinctively repulsive to me.
A Google search in and of itself does not prove anything! I'm not sure where you are getting your information about literacy. I don't know much about it but searching gave me more questions than answers.
The main one is, how do you define literacy? If you define it as a college reading ability (full literacy), the percentage is about 15% of US citizens today. I don't have the figures, but I can't imagine the figure being higher 100 years ago.
If you define it as the ability to read and write (functionally literate), it's over 99%. Functional illiteracy has dropped from 20% to 0.6% between 1870 and 1970.
The Milgram studies are very powerful findings, extremely widely cited, I'm aware of it of course. I have never read a claim by Milgram or associates that schooling laid the foundation for acceptance of authority, if that is what you're implying. In fact I believe he thought it applicable to human psychology in general.
I think your point on the conflicted term "social contract" is true, but it is obviously euphemistic. It's just a way to get people to accept something on face value which they might otherwise, a manipulation technique and a bad one at that.
You might have a point about the police. But it's maybe more the knowledge that they wide license to use force. It's like me telling you "by the way, such and such's father will beat you up for very little, and there's no one to stop you, so watch out". That's how I feel about them anyway, I'm not sure if that's indoctrination but I've learned to avoid confronting the police. It's the threat of what they can do to you.
It is my considered opinion that human government has absolutely no business making demands or using coercion or making any institution or activity mandatory.
What an amazing, mind-bending thing it is to look back and reflect that I grew up being compelled to attend classes where I was repeatedly told that I lived in a "free country."
It is absolutely terrifying to hear the responses of a large majority of Americans when fundamental inconsistencies between what they were taught in school and the bald reality of state coercion are pointed out.
Is there any evidence that schooling has the effect of making people more docile or is that only hypothesised? It's not enough for it to make sense, there has to be proof of some kind, none of which really appears in the video, enticing as it is to accept the point on face value.
For example, why have prisons at all if schools work so well to make us docile? Why do we have a so-called society collapse? Why do the police have any job at all if we're so obedient?
Further, are those constitutional rights applicable to minors? If so it should be one of the largest scandals possible. That it is not make me incredulous it is an appropriate criticism. That said, why should children not have those rights?
It's true that children have fractional rights in our society, and that's probably a good thing. But your other questions are like, "Do we have proof that beating/drugging/indoctrinating a child is bad for them?" We simply should not experiment on children. Full Stop. If we would not allow ourselves to be treated in this manner, then we shouldn't treat other human beings that way. Especially those who, because of their undeveloped state, have less rights than us. The situation is unnatural and repressive, and proof of damage is not needed to stop it, proof of harmlessness and benefit is needed to continue it.
To your question of jails, no one ever said it worked perfectly, and recently, many schools have given up on even trying to instill a love of order. Instead they have been raising rioters. And it is certainly working. I could (and I have in the past) written whole posts on why State School "socialization" is the last thing children need.
I tend to agree with you, the burden of proof should be on the person or persons wishing to do such and such. However claims must be substantiated, regardless of what they are. And to be practical, we find ourselves in the situation where not only is institutional schooling normal, it is law with very real consequences if broken. The claims should be seen as something to be backed up not because harmless much be proven and so on, but because there are great many people still in need of convincing.
For the record I am not intending to give you a hard time, but to test the rigour of this because it is useless to me otherwise. My children are before school age and I'm very much considering the coming years where I will be forced to make a choice.
I'll read your old posts, I'm sure they will be interesting.
I just now started discussing homeschooling here. My years of homeschooling are over. You can probably find my old posts in various homeschooling forums. But you should really read the very open claims of the "Prussian Method" and Horace Mann.
The whole idea, of surrendering our children to the State to be educated as the State demands, is instinctively repulsive to me.
For me also. I will read your blog more thank you.
A Google search in and of itself does not prove anything! I'm not sure where you are getting your information about literacy. I don't know much about it but searching gave me more questions than answers.
The main one is, how do you define literacy? If you define it as a college reading ability (full literacy), the percentage is about 15% of US citizens today. I don't have the figures, but I can't imagine the figure being higher 100 years ago.
If you define it as the ability to read and write (functionally literate), it's over 99%. Functional illiteracy has dropped from 20% to 0.6% between 1870 and 1970.
reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
reference: https://nces.ed.gov/NAAL/lit_history.asp
The Milgram studies are very powerful findings, extremely widely cited, I'm aware of it of course. I have never read a claim by Milgram or associates that schooling laid the foundation for acceptance of authority, if that is what you're implying. In fact I believe he thought it applicable to human psychology in general.
I think your point on the conflicted term "social contract" is true, but it is obviously euphemistic. It's just a way to get people to accept something on face value which they might otherwise, a manipulation technique and a bad one at that.
You might have a point about the police. But it's maybe more the knowledge that they wide license to use force. It's like me telling you "by the way, such and such's father will beat you up for very little, and there's no one to stop you, so watch out". That's how I feel about them anyway, I'm not sure if that's indoctrination but I've learned to avoid confronting the police. It's the threat of what they can do to you.
It is my considered opinion that human government has absolutely no business making demands or using coercion or making any institution or activity mandatory.
What an amazing, mind-bending thing it is to look back and reflect that I grew up being compelled to attend classes where I was repeatedly told that I lived in a "free country."
It is absolutely terrifying to hear the responses of a large majority of Americans when fundamental inconsistencies between what they were taught in school and the bald reality of state coercion are pointed out.
Thanks for pointing this out. 😄😇😄
Thanks for commenting. As an incrementalist libertarian, I constantly have to resist the urge to tear down the monolith.