I need to move my 401k into an IRA and am looking for some guidance from you guys. (I live in the US, PA to be more specific). I do not work for any company at this stage.
I currently have some money in a 401k from my previous employer and I must move it fairly quickly into an IRA.
The things that are important to me:
- Low fees. Fees eat into your profit margin like there is no tomorrow
- I want to be able to trade anything. Stocks, fonds, ETF, Foreign stocks etc
- I also want to be able trade in general so functionality in that regard is appreciated
- I also want to be able to hold crypto and trade crypto
Given that I would love your input on what your think good IRA options are and why.
Lol, these comments...
So here's the deal. An IRA can invest in almost anything except collectibles. See https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-plans-faqs-regarding-iras-investments So you can buy, stocks, bonds, crypto, real estate, businesses, etc.
BUT!
The vast majority of IRAs are set up with traditional brokerage houses like BAML, TD Ameritrade, etc. Those are the ones with low fees.
So you could open/rollover your IRA at a brokerage and buy your stocks, bonds, ETFs, foreign stocks (or at least their ADRs). So far though, I don't think any bitcoin ETFs have made it through the regulatory hurdles to get listed. I know I saw a headline that Bloomberg wants to bring one to market, so that may be a possibility somewhat soon.
There's also the news that the NASDAQ is looking into crypto, so that may be a possibility in the short to medium term future as well.
If you want your IRA to hold cryptos directly, then you are talking about an IRA not held at a brokerage account. These are called self-directed IRAs. But these violate your low fees rule. Typically the administrators charge something like 2% of assets under management (AUM). But you can really buy anything. A common strategy is to open an LLC opened by your IRA so you can then hold title to things in the LLC's name rather than the IRA's name. It makes for smoother transactions that way since people get all weird when you try to buy something in an IRA's name.
Another issue with self-directed IRAs is that you can't do anything yourself. This is to prevent self-dealing which is a giant no-no from the IRS. The point of the IRA (and all qualified funds like 401ks, 403bs, etc) is that the money is set aside for the future and you have not taken possession of the funds. That's why there's a tax deferral on it. So in order to do any transactions in the self-directed IRA you have to tell the administrator to do it for you. Those extra steps are, in my opinion, super annoying, take a lot of time, and cause those higher fees.
But if you want to investigate self-directed IRAs, there are a bunch of administrators out there. One that I used to have dealings with was https://www.trustetc.com/ - this isn't an endorsement, just letting you know they exist.
Hope that helps.
If the LLC was offshore I wonder if you could avoid taxes?
http://www.irafinancialgroup.com/selfdirectedira.php
If you take money personally out of the llc that is owned by the ira then that is self dealing and/or a distribution. It doesn’t matter where the llc is located.
On an audit, the IRS would probably rule that this transaction is an early distribution, which would mean that you would be subject to the 10% early distribution penalty (unless you somehow qualify for one of the exceptions to it). Even worse, the IRS could claim that the entire arrangement is not an IRA in the first place, in which case the entire amount in your IRA would suddenly be taxable income. These are dangerous waters. Consult a financial advisor (CPA or if the sums are large enough a lawyer who specializes in these types of situations). Not for the faint at heart.
up-voted this also because of this post: https://steemit.com/taxes/@nealmcspadden/are-solo-401-k-s-magic-fairy-tax-dust-spoiler-no
Are you sure you want an IRA? If you have a choice, which it appears you do, a Solo 401k might be worth checking out. They are different from your employer provided 401k plans. Solo 401k plans are for business owners. Even small or new businesses qualify, but you must have proof of business ownership (LLC does the trick). The perks of Solo 401k are substantially better than IRA (roth or traditional). Solo 401k plans are self-directed. I'm semi confident there is a custodian on the market that covers crypto investments. If this sounds new to you, please compare IRA vs Solo 401k before going further down the IRA path.
Can you explain why?
I’m not a expert to be clear, but I’ve learned from people in the industry. Most notably Ben Williams (owner of www.iselfdirect.com). They specialize in self directed IRAs and Solo 401ks. Here are the biggest reasons that I know of.
Contribution Limit
IRA - $5500 / year
Solo 401k - +$50,000 / year
This is a no brainer for anyone who wants to invest more than $5500 per year in tax advantaged accounts.
Both offer pre and post tax options.
Borrowing period
IRA - 60 days to pay back any loan from account
Solo 401k - 5 years to pay back loans from account
This is a huge benefit if you are a savvy investor who knows how to leverage spread opportunities with loans from you retirement accounts. This, plus the contribution limit make Solo 401ks the absolute best tax advantages account for entrepreneurs and business owners. It can do anything (correct me if I’m wrong) an IRA can do with these 2 huge advantages.
Security
IRA - Falls under State Law protection
Solo 401k - Falls under Federal Law protection
There are more advantages than just these, but this list is strong enough to consider Solo 401ks as the way to go for sure!
Once again, I’m not an expert, but if you want to talk to one, feel free to contact www.islefdirect.com. They can answer all your questions and assist in implementation. Hope this helped!
P.S. I’m not affiliated with iSlefDirect. Just giving an honest recommendation based on my experience.
self directed 401k's are usually attached to a corporation. I have a (sole proprietor) 401k with my LLC, and have a traditional, SEP, and Roth IRA personally.
Are Solo 401ks Magic Fairy Tax Dust?
Awesome post. Make sure to put it in a top level comment, otherwise I cannot get u a piece of the bounty.
Ill just upvote your other comment
Heh you beat me to it
@knircky if you want to hold or trade crypto in an IRA in the US your best option by far is with Broad Financial group. They are the ones I used for my own IRA.
I made a post about my experience here https://steemit.com/steem/@yabapmatt/a-guide-to-investing-in-steem-through-your-ira
Fantastic! Great writeup. This has helped me quite a bit!
Great Information not just for @knircky but for all of us aslo looking for the same information.
@yabapmatt Wow that was so cool. I appreciate that,
Good information, I'll keep it in mind
@knircky has set 100.000 STEEM bounty on this post!
What is a bounty exactly?
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I will be using @steem-bounty for my bounty needs so much easier.
Let us know if there are specia features u would need as we are planing for the next version.
None has won the complete bounty reward!
I can suggest you an IRA called regalwallet https://regalwallet.com/
that I am considering myself. It has reasonable fees, and you can hold cryptos there as well in cold storage. It is for both US and international costumers.
Nice! I have heard about regalwallet. It's is not bad.
You can quasi do bitcoin with GBTC stock. It seems to track bitcoin pretty well. Are you sure you want to do an IRA though? Hopefully you can avoid paying too much in fees.
https://goldiraguide.org/top-bitcoin-ethereum-ira-companies/
How to Add Bitcoins to Your IRA
In order to invest in Bitcoins for your retirement, you’ll need to have a self-directed IRA. Self-directed IRAs permit diversifying Roth or Traditional retirement assets beyond the usual stocks, bonds, mutual funds and certificates of deposit. They permit investors to hold real estate, tax lien certificates, promissory notes, gold and silver, private placement securities and more, as long as they can find a custodian to manage their account. Bitcoins fall into this category of nontraditional investment. https://www.rothira.com/invest-bitcoin-roth-ira
You will probably end up going with a company from this list.
https://www.innovativewealth.com/wealth-management/research/self-directed-ira-industry/the-ultimate-list-of-self-directed-ira-custodians-and-administrators/
It doesn't look like there is much transparency when it comes to fee structures. :(
That's great info. Thanks for sharing @mysearchisover
You may invest your money BTC, ETH. This are very profitable crypto coin right now. Best of luck.
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For US costumers, my friend is using an IRA called BitcoinIRA. Here is the link www.bitcoinira.com
It is the largest and one of the earliest IRA provider. It supports the following cryptocurrencies : Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, Bitcoin Cash, Ripple and Litecoin
That one looks nice too. I am looking for an IRA and this post is really helpful. Thanks.
Bitcoin IRA looks nice https://bitcoinira.com/buy-bitcoins/?AID=1011&utm_source=affiliate
Another source: https://coinira.com/
Hi @knircky
You may want to have a look at the following link that has 3 IRA options; 2 for US-based citizens and 1 for both international and US investors. You can trade/ hold cryptos as well. https://goldiraguide.org/top-bitcoin-ethereum-ira-companies/
It's a huge amount. In my personal opinion the main logic success of crypto world when the coins price decreases, buy many coins as possible. There is a possibility of getting more profits afterward. But you do not lose your hope. Waiting for the right time. Right now you may invest Bitcoin, Ethereum because its very profitable coins in the world. Wish you best of luck. You may check out the link . Hope it's very helpful to you.
https://www.fidelity.com/building-savings/learn-about-iras/ira-choosing-investments
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/how-to-invest-ira
Greetings, knirck
I wanted to help him a lot, though, I live in Brazil and I had a hard time understanding what this IRA is and whats 401k. If I understood correctly, you received some kind of retirement fund and want to move to a place that holds investments, like a brokerage firm, is that it ???
I can not help you, because I do not understand these things from another country, but I hope someone here will help you.
Thank you and good morning!
Bitcoin ira or Ethereum Ira should be considered as they are both generally accepted for transactions.
Why utilize a Retirement Account to Invest in Cryptocurrencies?
When buying digital forms of money, for example, Bitcoins, with a Self-Directed IRA or Solo 401(k) Plan, all pay and picks up produced by your pre-assess retirement account speculation would by and large stream once again into the retirement account impose conceded or tax-exempt on account of a Roth IRA. Rather than paying duty on the additions of the crypto speculation, charge is paid just at a later date or never by any means, on account of a Roth IRA, leaving the crypto venture to become unhindered without tax.
Hmm...good advice.
I have come across a few different options as I go to investment and crypto events. Here are a few options of groups I have met in person and spoken to that allow and even cater to people with crypto holdings:
https://www.bitira.com/
https://www.bitvestira.com/
https://newdirectionira.com/home
They allow for crypto investments along with all the traditional investment types as well. I can connect you to someone of them if desired.
Good Luck!
Open a small business with a LLC from a favorable low or no tax jurisdiction. and have the LLC establish a "TRUST". Have the trust establish a SEP IRA (Simplified Employee Pension) You become the manager of the trust...
Any of these eitities can buy crypto..
Or https://www.goodfinancialcents.com/solo-401k-contribution-limits-rules-plans/ for a solo 401-k plan.,
Now if your after privacy and want to live in a tax neutral jurisdiction wink wink... that is a whole other discussion... :-)
I would look into forming an IRA with MOTIF. The users build funds, and other users can buy-in; it's like building your own ETF except the basket of funds is chosen by the group. I am not associated with them, but you can put together "thematic funds" like Crypto, marijuana stocks, green stocks, etc.
at some point I may look to join some of the creative funds that they have. It's worth a look, and as an IRA it will satisfy the government requirements. I still would not put all my money there. I use TD Ameritrade for my primary IRA - but I would consider dropping 5 - 10 % into Motif, just for fun and appreciation.
Best of luck with your 401K rollover!
I think you should check out Scottrade @knircky. I know an uncle in the US who used that, and I had to call him because of this bounty. :P
Well, their costs are quite low. One of the lowest according to him. And yes they have an office in Pennsylvania.
Also, they offer a bonus when you are rolling over from an existing 401(k) account. He wasn't rolling over though so there was no bonus for him.
So i did a little digging online to find out how much they offer and i found this -
Owo. Great deal 100 steem. Just growing this great project
There are several companies offering products. IMO I would rather be in control. You can do this by self directing your ira, and then following those laws for crypto in self directed ira. Sorry for no specific advice, but I do know about self directing ira funds into real estate deals. It's easy, so I'm guessing it's even easier for investing in crypto. For real estate, you just can't manage, and can't do repairs yourself for rental properties in a self directed ira.
There are two plans the 401k and 403b. Since you have made a choice to be 401k Alright.
But this are the few benefit you will receive from IRA
So your goals should guide your choice.
Just trade crypto using USDT. You can do it on Binance with 50% of the funds, (25% in USDT - 25% in BTC, always close the orders daily) the other put it on a ledger/trezor.
OMG you are rich and you will become even richer. Good luck!
Not yet rich, but waiting for the next bitcoin bubble ;-)
Haha...great @jwolf.
Even a better option here Knircky. Forget about the IRAs. 😀
Empower retirement's IRA looks pretty good. It covers your top 3 bullet points (low fees, trade anything and you can trade). No crypto though. Not an endorsement but just to let you know it's out there as an option.
https://ira.empower-retirement.com/preLoginContentLink.do?accu=IRAWR&specificBundle=preLogin&contentUrl=preLogin.IRASolution.fees
I heard from a reliable source that this company ( Broad Financial group)is a brokerage that offers IRA that can do cryptos...try them out
REALLY INSPIRABLE PROGRAM TO START THAT WILL HUGE IN FUTURE FOR THE USERS
Can you not just buy into an ETF that invests in blockchain related companies? Its a great way to diversify beyond the tokens and into companies utilizing the technology as well, many tokens will never produce income. I hold coins in my non registered (taxable) accounts and blockchain ETFs in my registered (tax efficient) accounts. Start your research with BLOK or BLCN
Steemit, es, bitshares
There are some good IRA options. From these Bank is also a good option.
Many banks offer IRA accounts for those looking for the security of a CD. While rates currently are at historic lows, CDs are FDIC insured. Here are two examples of banks that offer IRAs.
Ally. Formerly GMAC, Ally Bank offers high yield IRA CDs. It also offers up to a $500 bonus on new IRA accounts, depending on the size of the initial deposit.
Your Post Got Upvote
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First, figure out if you can get your funds into a Roth IRA so it can grow tax free (google Backdoor Ira if your reported income exceeds the limit or depending on the amount you’re transferring). Most brokerage at this point cannot give you direct access to cryptos, you can only invest in GBTC or equities that are exposed to cryptos like ICE or SQ. I suggest motifinvesting.com to build a cheap diversified portfolio that is exposed to crypto if you want to be a long term holder with little trading. I’ve seen ads for bitcoinira.com but have no experience with it to give an honest opinion. Otherwise for more trading, you probably want to go with a traditional low cost brokerage like scottstrade. They just aren’t crypto friendly yet but keep in mind you can always transfer funds later, so maybe split it 50/50 between motif and scottstrade to get what you want.
Have a great night... a big hug from @amico!
I hope so!
Oh yeah... the bounty bait always works very well! B-)
i think u have to invest in crypto trading its a best time to enter in crypto trading because btc and all coins are down at this time and if u invest at this time u will earn good .best of luck dear.
I am from bangladesh . i am search in internet and analice som wabesit. than i find. SCOTTRADE is one of your nice option. .
its low cost. and their fees are little low. 401K is a big amount. so they offer you more option. and you can get more option.
you can know more about this lin this link.
https://www.tdameritrade.com/scottrade.page
thank for creating this bounty. i hope you find the best ... for you.
In my little knowledge , For an increasing majority of investors, cryptocurrency holds tremendous promise. As the future of money, Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other digital currencies are an attractive and profitable investment opportunity. Much like cash or stocks, digital currencies are a legally eligible asset class to diversify an investment portfolio.
For that I suggest to invest you BTC or ETH ..@knircky
Maybe this post can help you. It gives the list of top Bitcoin, Ethereum or other cryptocurrencies IRA companies In 2018. Hope this can be of some help to you, @knircky
https://goldiraguide.org/top-bitcoin-ethereum-ira-companies/
Check out this article, which was posted on Forbes. Hope it will give you some useful information on this IRA/401k/crypto issue https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/12/14/what-to-know-before-purchasing-cryptocurrencies-with-retirement-funds/#789f87f64fcc
hi friend @knircky first of all I would like to know what an anger is and I will seek recommendations from friends I would like to earn a bit of that prize because my economic situation in Venezuela is on the ground I am Venezuelan but I want to learn a little about you I also want to be a good entrepreneur citizen and help my Venezuelan brothers, I hope I can take a little of your time and in a great comment to leave me the explanation I swear I will look for how to recommend an Ira I hope you take my comment into account as I am using the translator and I am a bit sorry that my comment is a nuisance greetings from venezuela I ask you with the soul that can answer my comment and give me an opportunity to overcome the hunger of my country :).
Wow 100STEEM Bounty :O
Wow this bounty is amazing
Isnt it great!
I think you should buy that house and sell it.
Let me being clear on this: You want to hire for a IRA option to invest in crypto. As i have understood untill now, one of the benfits of an IRA applyment is get some deductions when you pay contributions. In my opinion you must divide the amount and use a half to invest in Crypto and the other half use it for a IRA. So, you will get a good bitcoin reserve where you can use a significant percentage to invest in good stock, and then, with the resultant gain you will deposit on the IRA, where you deposited previously the half. Once you made this all the times you want to get a good retirement plan, you will be done...
And the better part of this is: You can administrate the money better than a third part service...
Can someone explain it to me in a simplified way ?
i am so dumb i don't understand this
And i am here like.
What is IRA ?
@knircky If you are looking for a good return on your investment you are already a user of steemit and you know this will work for long time as well ,you have good amount of steem power in this account, many good investors had invested there money and getting 30+ APR.
The simple was to get guarantee return is to delegate steem power to Bots, i am not saying to me but here there are many Bots Who offers 100% return like i do , you should try this service with small amount of delegation if you like the return you can increase any time, At the current time the steem rate is low so it will benefit you more than before or you can wait for a good time when it is good for buying more steems , thanks hope you give a thought to this as well.
Details on www.upmewhale.com
Yes this indeed makes sense as investment option
yes you can calculate it almost give 33% Apr at the current price but it is sure that steem will go high for better planning you should select a right time for investment in steemit if steem price go a bit more down you can have some plans and bots give around 33% apr with no problem like i give and other bots as well thanks
Thanks for sharing. I've smashed the upvote button for you!
Also, if you are looking to get some tokens without investing or mining check out Crowdholding (https://www.crowdholding.com). They are a co-creation platform were you get rewarded for giving feedback to crypto startups on the platform. You can earn Crowdholding's token as well as DeepOnion, ITT, Smartcash and many other ERC-20 tokens.
I am a dark horse about ira. Would you give details post about it. How to invest?
Hope this might help,
If you roll into a Roth IRA, you’ll owe taxes on the rolled amount. If you want to rollover your funds without incurring taxes, stick with a traditional IRA. After that check out best IRA accounts to find a provider that aligns with your needs. Then ask your 401(k) plan for a “direct rollover.”
The 401(k) funds will enter the IRA as cash, so you’ll need to invest the money.
Maybe this link can help you finding the right IRA for you.
You have to do your own research. You can ask for informations here, but dont follow blindly the tips of unknown internet users. You could regret it.