Miner Fees Are Getting Too Sketchy With Bitcoin
This may not be a popular post, even I who is writing this up is cringing at the hopelessness I feel with the current state of Bitcoin. I am a Bitcoin purist, I came into this space long ago with love for Bitcoin but all this drama for the last year with no outcome for the basic users in Bitcoin has dragged on long enough for me personally.
Last night I ran into a slight issue with with trying to move a small amount to my Bitpay wallet. Due to delegating my Steem Power to my project @steemitbc I come to find out I couldn't claim my rewards here. Turned out I had to feed a little Steem Power to correct it so I took some old Litecoin holdings to Coinbase in order to buy up a few SP on Blocktrades. Out of desire to tie my Bitpay card to Coinbase (a huge mistake) I also linked that card to my account. Well as Coinbase does it drew out a few bucks for transaction tests and put my card into the negative.
Not a big deal, I just figured take about $6 of Steem Dollars, send her over to Blocktrades to load my card with some Bitcoins but it never arrived. Upon looking I figured out what was the issue, Bitcoin charged me nearly all of it for miner fees so my funds were lost to the great mining camps doing all the bitching lately.
That Was My Last Straw With Bitcoin
Bitcoin has lost its way at this stage, they are seriously with so many issues not putting users first and letting all these mining fees stack up with constant slow downs in transactions that is clearly a coin for only the rich. The little guys trying to hold some Bitcoin and rise up are literally tossing funds out the window moving it around and its getting pretty absurd to me to even bother with it at this stage. My bank when I was into fiat never robbed me so constantly and that is how I view this, a nickel and dime robbery on the poor. Have we forgotten why we are here? To not be central and not take peoples funds and spread financial empowerment to the individual? Bitcoin has clearly let that movement completely go right now it appears.
What Options Are Left For The Minnows of Crypto?
Right now I am at odds to even bother holding Bitcoin, it hurts to say this...trust me I been all about them for a very long time but as a miner and blogger on Steemit the math just doesn't add up anymore to move Bitcoin around. I love my Bitpay card and I seriously hope at some stage they decide to back the average user by giving us options with altcoins to load our cards. Litecoin is fast becoming my choice of movement and they could gain my full support if we had a better way to cash it out and put it on a debit card.
In the end I do have high hopes that Bitcoin gets off their asses and put its users first. Bowing down to the miners is seriously centralizing Bitcoin and I do not feel paying them such high mining fees is really doing anything in the first place. The transaction back logs are still rising up worst now than a month ago, so these fees are only lining corporate miners pockets which tells me we are going way backwards from where we started.
Needless to say I am broke as a joke....well for the moment, seems crypto lately is in a weird phase. Altcoins keep flopping with Bitcoin's issues. Steemit's payouts on my end become a change machine, and it seems the only thing to do is just ride the moment out. It is a time of serious consideration for all in how they truly need the whole crypto space to be. Litecoin to me should be way above where even Ethereum is at..its always been a side pick of mine since its inception but seems to always get that underdogged value placed on it which seems unfitting.
Bitpay I hope you catch this article of mine, and I hope you consider putting a few altcoin alternatives in your system at some stage or I maybe shopping soon for a new debit card to get this family of mine through this rough moment in Bitcoin and crypto.
~sflaherty
Hey point of informaion here: You do realize that cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and the like are decentralized which means there is no "they" deciding things. outside of the "they miners" who are debating and deciding on how to lower fees and increase transaction speed. - all done through signaling, a type of vote mechinism.
I think if Bitcoin can be successful this month deciding the path forward and fees and speed is fixed.... to da MOON!!! 🚀
Right now yes, decentralized but really look into what Bitmain has done lately. That is the "they" side I majorly feel is trying to centralize and what Bitcoin Core itself is struggling against. Its not just them though, its these little factions backing them as well. This has been a long 2 year ongoing issue that seems to never resolve. We are now on Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 149? That is 149 BIP proposals yet to be implemented in the course of many years?, well one or two mini adoptions that were needed but in the end its always a back and forth.
My reasoning is this, Bitmain has taken a firm stance that if they don't get their way they will split the coin, that is a very central show of force on the space that should be put in check or we will definitely see a division of central and decentralized mindsets which should have been put in check a long time ago. I am a miner myself but all those fees go straight to the corporate miners not the little guys so its kind of what I see as trouble. It was bound to happen at some stage that a divided way about these things would come into play but its out of hand the effects on the actual users.
I am sure Bitcoin in the long run with overcome this but for now I am heading like a lot of people towards Litecoin for every day transactions, no longer feasible for me with Bitcoin. Guess Bitcoin is more a side holding coin till they get it fixed but there is reasons to be concerned with the miners....they have already stated that they feel entitled to the head of the table in Bitcoin so that feels to me like they are not so about the decentralized movement that many of us came into this for.
Sounds like the "they" that is bothering you happens to be a big percentage of Bitcoin itself. How can you be sure that Bitmain's plan is wrong or that a fork wommt ultimately be the best?
I get your concerns to a degree but I also think you could appreciate what decentralization means and offers as well as what it requires. Concensus is easy when you have a King -- so is tyranny.
Also, since you said you mine, I apologize for my instructional tone, maybe someone else could use the info but clearly you are abreast of the issues in Bitcoin.
I would also add that Bitmain and co are taking a very big risk. If they lose out it could cost them massively. Ultimstely, I'm not sure having so much market cap % wise on one chain is really foe the best. Just some thoughts... 💭
Great points, we view this similar I just guess in different ways of getting to the same viewpoints. I do agree too much marketcap and the fluctuations on it is a situation in itself with issues, growing pains I always say. Bitmain has a few secret fears lately, I have a few inside sources due to actually working in a coin myself so I hear stuff. Right now the rumor around the water cooler is that Bitmain and other miner hardware producers are taking huge issues with Nvidia and Amd jumping on making mining specific cards, they know those guys have way more resources and could one day make even more efficient ASICS if they find that going the miner hardware route is more beneficial. So I have this odd feeling they want to grasp a little hold on the market while they still can. Maybe not to control but to definitely keep up to the top before bigger corporations get into the mix.
Far as Bitcoin mining, its a losing game right now for small time miners like myself. With all these high fees and price surges it still is a electricity cost vs profit margin that still makes no sense to bother with, better to point to altcoins to break in some profits and that seriously confuses a lot of us miners due to the fact these fees are so high but they aren't actually being spread around, just going to the corporate side of the situation.
When it comes to me you kind of have to understand I came in a long time ago with Bitcoin and do believe in them. But the crypto space was not about the money for me, it was only for the movement to change the world and rid us of the central banking corruption on the world. So I look for signs a lot with issues in this space and lately they are every where abound. There is a small group of us taking notes and I just see a few issues that could send us in the wrong direction.
Take Ethereum for instance, that is a bad coin for the movement. They have JP Morgan with investments on that, which is the very entity that runs the central bank system. Then you got Ripple as well with nothing but central bank invested backing. Yet everyone is ICO crazy and pumping the heck out of coins that could very well bring the doors to government centralization in crypto. The movement side is a goner if people don't wake up to the inner schemes that is being played on crypto right now. Bitcoin may not be at the center of trying to ruin anything but corruption always abounds when money is involved and if they want to reclaim the real reason Satoshi put this together, spreading around that power control system with miners and developers is going to be very important.
To answer your question how I can be sure Bitmain is wrong for this. To simply threaten a fork that would divide the coin in 2 is dictatorship styled consensus. Its a scare tactic and to me a wrong way to go about it because they aren't being open to options like you should be in decentralized open source platforms. If they fire their Segwit off before August as they say they will....then mark my words that split will happen and we may end up with a lot of people hurt and with major losses just like the Ethereum fiasco fork. Maybe it will all work out but I guess you say I see things inside that seem less decentralized on their side.
Either way I can't move Bitcoin around anymore with the way I do business. I am 100% a crypto full time user, do not own a bank account nor have held cash in my hands for a very long time so for a user like myself this mess effects my every day life in a very horrible downsizing way. I am not planning to return to fiat so I have to run to Litecoin for now I guess till this irons itself out.
Sorry to hear man, cryptos are a small part of my funds right now, but I'm hoping to invest more in the future. But yea, they need to flake it easier for the everyday person, not all of us are whales
My issue really stems from taking the leap of faith to completely live off crypto, I kind of consider this choice as a social test to show others it can be done but it comes with very low moments when stuff like this happens. Its okay its happened more than once and always bounces back and I do amazing but its a headache none the less when its happening. I have lost a few more times like this moving Bitcoin around since Jan 2017, you just never know when the fees rise up or down on some platforms so its becoming a serious gamble to load Bitcoin cards when your doing it in small doses. Normally I save up a chunk then load it huger than I did last night but due to Coinbase putting international fees on my card for just attaching my card caused me to have to try a small move to keep it in the positive so I didn't lose it. I got it covered today thankfully but that really made me at odds with Bitcoin at this point.
If we don't put equality and the whole space of users in mind with Bitcoin, then we might as well make that one for the rich and the rest of us adopt a new top dog to make it in crypto. I hope they know inside Bitcoin this is a growing issue that may burn them in the end. Miners are not thinking about us, only what they can get and that to me is not what I got into crypto for, I came in here to get rid of central bankers, not create new ones in the form of corporations.
I agree with you and I support you, I also want to be able to live with altcoins !! It's a dream that I know we can carry out, just keep believing !! :))
Litecoin for life!
I am with you on that one. I have always side mined Litecoin and at this stage I think it makes more sense for it to be up there, if not take over if Bitcoin doesn't get its act together. Done being burned by mining fees lol
I'm not sure it'll ever be the top dog but every day I wonder how it's not worth 10 times what it is now. I just see this as the next big currency. I do hope Bitcoin gets its act together but it's been trending in the wrong direction to me.
This Bitcoin matter is scary. First you got the miner camps who literally bold face show they want full control, so far as to threaten users with a divided coin of 2 Bitcoins if they don't get their way. Then we have this option of Soft Fork which could help but miners won't let that happen clearly. In the end what I expect, same as always...a lot of talk and no action, that has been the way for 2 years now. So many Segwit proposals have come and gone in those 2 years and right now I just don't see this being different.
I guess we just have to keep tabs, prepare and maybe back a side coin. I am on Litecoin but boy does Bitpay need to add that into their system
9 days ago you said to do your due diligence before making decisions on which crypto to buy. That leads to the question >>> "So you think price movement like this means litecoin looks like a great alternative to bitcoin?!!" :O I'm thinking you may want to just get out of ALL cryptos completely and start a stamp collection "if" you think this looks like a good time to buy. :-)
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ltcusd
Yikers! :O
I am not talking at all about investing in Litecoin, I am meaning for every day usages for bill payments and moving holdings around. I don't think you get the kind of crypto user I am. I am not an investor in crypto. I am a full time 100% crypto user. Unlike most in this space looking for a buck to convert to fiat, I live and breath crypto for the movement to get central banks off citizens backs. Due to being a full time user, the end game to pay bills does mean me having no choice but on occasion to move holdings to load fiat backed visa cards and Bitcoin no longer is feasible in that ever day transaction usage.
But from an investment standpoint, are you not seeing the resistance that Litecoin is gaining when Bitcoin is dipping? That is a sign that in long term its a valid coin in my opinion to hold which i been since I got it for change a coin a long time ago.
This article is not about investing though, this is about options for every day users that live solely on crypto like myself. And Litecoin isn't my only option for moving money around but more of the safer choices I am leaning on. Just wish Bitpay and others would adopt more options during times like these when fees are so high on Bitcoin.
Well, if you are looking to get the central bankers of your back why not write your Congressman to "end the blatant manipulation!" in the bitcoin price by the banks and hedge funds. :-) Uhhhm, I looked at that litecoin chart for 1 second I know that anyone advocating a buy at the current price "deserves" the ass kicking that thry have coming their way. :-) Bitcoin.... STILL the most "manipulated" asset in the world. let me know how the letter writing campaign goes. I'll let you know via my blogs on the "likely" path of the bitcoin price going further. Maybe we will meet again at bitcoin sub $1000, litecoin...ooooh, I dunno, a move back to $10 "might" drive some of the "obvious" excesses out I guess.
Trust me I am no stamp collector here, actually worked in a crypto coin so I think your confusing what this article is about. This isn't at all about investing. There is a little gap between being an average crypto investor and a long term crypto user who abandoned fiat like I have personally done. This is about losing money on daily usages. I have done the math and with the fees right now to pay bills i am handing over an extra $100 just to load cards to pay what needs to be paid. With Litecoin or other alternatives that is reduced to about $10 a month.
When your just transacting from Bitcoin to another coin to pay bills, market prices don't even matter, its not an investment move that is a simple trade off of current value to another coin to directly pay what needs to be paid.
From investment standpoint, yes you should think and research...that I stand by and what i do on long term investments which I do on the side but my income comes in form of crypto so I am outside of that realm when I mean switching from Bitcoin to something like Litecoin for bill payments. Issue is, those options are limited to mostly Bitcoin so my reasoning for this post is to state that maybe we need wider options in this area for common usages and exit strategies in order to secure our funds while the issues with fees are present. Hope that makes sense.
I imagine all cryptos will eventually lose acceptance amongst retailers who currently accept them. Sure, they get paid the amount owed by the processors who make the transactions possible (just like VISA and MasterCard do with dollars). The problems will begin whenst the bubble officially pops in these "fantasies" that are cryptocurrencies. When the processors start getting taken out by gapdown moves in price, you "might" find yourself back to using dollars. And that's a good thing as the dollar will soon be one of the world's only "safe havens."
lol oh so your one of those guys in crypto trying to front as a crypto user but at the core a fraud for fiat lol. Now I get the trolling and threats above to kick some ass on me, by the way bad move there...pushing a little past some rules within this community but I get how a troll works and how they use threats as a game. Your in the wrong place my friend, kind of in the wolves den at this stage if your running around harassing crypto users with your trolling games. Listen, I am a grown up here....so I am disengaging from this childish taunts by you. I am a tax paying citizen who done very well with crypto vs that fiat crumbling system you bow down to. Between you and me, your the one in a fantasy to believe fiat will survive. Italy has fallen due to the fiat inflation machine and the domino effect is coming as predicted even by wall street. I actually feel pretty bad for those that don't see this yet. Here you could be making wiser use of your time to make some money but you are running around trolling and why your profile is making squat in crypto. Maybe that is something your not grasping about Steemit, what your pulling on my profile gets around and people blacklist you for your wrongful usage of this. Anyways have a great one, move along to the next guy you want to mess around with. Not happening here anymore
it has to be a troll otherwise he would have more followers i guess
I'm not harrassing anyone. Just stating facts. If you can't handle the truth it's your own fault. Ooooh skeeeery, all of the rest of the crypto morons at this site are going to flag my every spew. Oh no! What will I do?!! All my dreams of becoming a crypto millionaire...ruint! Get a clue, clown. "Fiat" gonna rip your face off!
G'day @sflaherty.
I think the segwit announcement expected on August 1 should make Bitcoin more usable as a currency through a faster and less expensive exchange with Litecoin.
If this decision goes through Litecoin should increase in value. If it doesn't, Litecoin should explode for the reasons mentioned in this article.
It's cheaper and faster to use and far more viable as day to day currency going forward.
Cheers mate,
Fish
I agree with you...either way Litecoin's future is bright. Bitcoin on the other hand, buddy this chitter chatter of Segwit and dates to fix it been going on for 2 years. I never hold my breath anymore for Segwit activation on Bitcoin because its failed over and over hundreds of times with potential dates so I am kind of at odds with the whole Bitcoin game right now. Actually right now I would be more worried then hopeful. Mining camps seem to really want to push their weight around with threats of forking the coin into other coins and I suspect they have it hostage right now. You can't win in there with that going on. Two outcomes, the miners get their way....then you basically have a centralized platform they control completely, or UASF does get done for the users and then the miners retaliate and fork the coin into 2 coins. To me it doesn't look good either way so what probably will happen as it always does, no action will take place on both sides and more time of back and forth to come out.
I hate to be a debbie downer on this one but I been in this a long time and this drama is never ending with Bitcoin. I guess we just wait like we always do and see but I am going to hound Bitpay to get Litecoin on their wallet lol....I want an option at this stage lol
Yup, I have been telling people how much the transaction/miner fees will be skyrocketing with BTC. Litecoin is far superior in regards to fees and speed. LTC is my baby atm and love it.
There are other noteworthy coins with solid blockchains, high speed/load capabilities and low fees. Unfortunately, Bitcoin will never again be one of them.
I agree. When I worked in PIVX we kind of felt that platforms like Litecoin and those that put real privacy inside where holding up the heart of the decentralized movement. When you really view the Bitcoin drama, put aside your core love of Bitcoin for its beginnings, you can start to see this backing away from its roots, which bothers me a lot. Sadly purist, even myself i was one, they don't view the centralization going on inside with Bitcoin. If you are a small time bitcoin miner and you can't over shoot your electricity bill still yet the fees are so high as they are then you know better that its the corporate miners getting all the money and leaving even the small miners out. They got to be a machine and to me that is no different than the printing press at the central bank. If Bitcoin wants to go forward in a decentralized way that issue needs to be dealt with. Litecoin to me seems to hold its ground with the core root of the movement, its easier to mine, has long term potential and still keeps the little guys in mind, hence coming up with Segwit and firing it off, we are kind of past all that drama in Litecoin and I think they deserve a boost up honestly for doing right by its users.
This is an awesome article.! For me it really catches current state of affairs in the bitcoin world. It sucks to have so much money taken through fees. Fingers crossed for Litecoin:).!
Don't get me wrong I do love Bitcoin but I don't love the way they are handing the issues for the users. I keep hearing too much about how to make the miners happy vs the people holding and moving their coin around and that really bothers me. Of course it will always have value but maybe this should be viewed more as a gold standard and companies like Bitpay and so on should start considering helping their customers with more options that don't kill users in every day usage fees. I am getting to a stage I may horde more Litecoin and dump my Bitcoin holdings into it due to the simple reasoning of the fact that Bitcoin may need to see a mass move to turn itself around right now. I am not rich but I live 100% on crypto, only fiat is when I got to load my Bitpay visa so these issues hit me a little harder than the average crypto trader. Its sucking my bill paying dry and for guys like me its a moment of consideration what is wiser for the family vs my love for a coin.
Yes, that is a big problem if you use crypto 100%. I definitely can not understand this perspective since it is practically impossible to pay with btc anywhere near Slovenia. Best of luck!
Over here i use the Bitpay card, have to cave in and convert it to fiat lol but it served it purpose till these fees got so high. In the end I still have love for Bitcoin but for no I guess I need to move it around through other coins till the issues get corrected