Good point re that "same turd."
Most defenders of capitalism will show how capitalism, in its ideal form and expression, will create wealth and happiness for all. Remember, that's in its ideal form.
Then they'll excoriate socialism by showing how socialism, in its bastardized expressions such as in the Soviet Union, causes poverty, failed economies, and misery.
That hardly allows for a clear-minded, scientific argument of the matter. In fact, it causes insurmountable distortions from the outset.
....
What is needed is an economy that works for the benefit of all, regardless of terminology. That will probably require a blend of the various principles – or a system that transcends and includes the various principles of the 2 "...isms."
A prime example is Singapore. Founded on socialist principles, and developed by adhering to those socialist principles, it remains a democracy with a very successful capitalist economy. Probably the most successful capitalist economy in the world today.
Its founding father Lee Kuan Yew was a "strong man," but he was also very benevolent and truly concerned about the welfare of all citizens.
Under Lee, Singapore never instituted a minimum wage ... but almost all citizens and residents of Singapore make a livable wage.
Under Lee, Singapore never established a national health care regime ... but all residents have access to very reasonably priced health care, and can afford excellent health insurance.
(The 2 above accomplishments were not the result of the free market, but of the govt's working with the private sector to ensure that the private sector would not simply to stuff its own coffers with more and more cash, but work for the benefit of all, and to create a thriving economy. That turned out to be a very successful policy.)
And of course, we have the socialism of Scandinavia and other norther European countries, which seems to be working much better than the less-than-ideal capitalism of the USSA.
I don't know much about the details of Singapore or Scandinavia. I have seen people providing contradictory evidence regarding Scandinavia though. I agree that the 'classic' 'debate' that goes on forever about how 'pure' capitalism (that has never existed) is the best solution and how alternatives 'are just communism or similar' is absurd - it's possibly one of the biggest wastes of human energy ever!
Some of the issues here are the same as are faced in all public debates - namely, that most people haven't yet learned to apply logic in an open minded way without denial being involved. As long as denial creeps into the process, the outcomes are delusional, yet convincing to those who deny things. I feel at the core of the cause of this is a set of judgements that are taken to be facts, when they are not. These include such ideas as 'things can never be perfect' and 'i've just got to take whatever i can to survive and try to be happy'. Humans have never known or felt real peace and so are heavily imprinted to compete, also struggling under the weight of scars of having been abused and abusive. Until we heal our emotions and spirit in the deepest ways, as individuals, we will continue to go round in circles and history will repeat while we call it only 'revolutionary'. :/
I readily agree with your characterization of the debate as "possibly one of the biggest wastes of human energy ever!"
To say the least!