Then a lot more needs to be done. The US can't keep going on like this. There has to be answer to this. The law needs to crack down more harshly on gun crime. Longer prison sentences for gun crime. I'm not in favour of the death penalty so I won't comment on that. Less reasonable access to guns = less gun crime. I know its easier said than done, I really do but again, this needs sorting.
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You're really hitting all the talking points of the gun ban crowd, and appear to have never heard of the fact that Americans use firearms to legally PREVENT millions of crimes. Have at a search engine for information about it.
Also, how's England doing with the knife ban? They gonna ban spoons next? Rocks and sticks? How many gun crimes in America are committed by NRA members?
None.
All the crime committed with guns is committed by armed criminals - who we need to protect ourselves against, as the police only show up after the crimes have been committed.
Have a look at rape statistics in Florida, where the law was changed to encourage women to carry firearms after a spate of rapes. The rapes ended.
Also, how reasonable is it to ban something I can PRINT at home?
When a government fears it's citizens, they are free. When the citizens fear the government, they are slaves.
Lotsa slaves in this world, and taking guns from Americans would dramatically increase them.
In England the government has cameras in the LIVING ROOMS of parents of truant children.
Don't try that here.
I must admit, you're absolutely right. The UK is getting bad for banning things. Even schools ban kids from having fun! It's crazy really.
In regards to guns and knives, if I'm honest, I'd rather take my chances against someone with a knife than someone who can stand metres away and take aim.
The sad thing is, all these gun arguments comes after events such as these. It's the victims and their families I think about. As for the politic side of things.. I really don't know what would be the best thing, and I would never pretend to. I just wish everyone could get along. But then, I'm sure everyone thinks the same thing!
How about doctors stop prescribing mind altering drugs? How about people on those drugs not being allowed to keep their guns perhaps? You get a prescription for said drug, and you don't get the drug until you turn in your weapons. Even that doesn't work though. How about we ban predators and sociopaths? Nope. That doesn't work either. We can remove them from society though. That does work.
Guns in the hands of potential victims is the best way to remove those predators from society.
Better yet, predators tend not to attack armed victims. This is why rapes declined so precipitously in Florida after women there were encouraged to carry concealed firearms. It's also why unions exist in America.
This, @l5taylor, is what everyone bangs on about in the UK, and I think they just don't get the fact that America is literally built on the principle of gun ownership, amongst other things, of course. Blandly telling Americans to tighten up their gun laws is like trying to tell someone to take their shoes off whilst keeping both feet flat on the floor, or trying to tell a bear not to sh*t in the woods. People in the UK don't seem to get that it is incompatible with being American and the concept of America as a place. Well, the UK did lose against them in the War for Independence, so perhaps it's not unreasonable that they still don't understand. It is said that "A well armed populace is the best defence against tyranny.", and, after some consideration, I think this is a good point.
Wow, you really get it. Following you. People don't realize why the Constitution and our border security remains intact. The Second Amendment.
We are not even encouraged to think about it in the UK. The whole thing is presented as barely worthy of debate - literally bordering on insane. Hah, ha, you know Americans, they're crazy, with their crazy gun laws. That's it, that's as far as most people ever go. The whys and wherefores are completely ignored. Hell, great swathes of American academia is studiously ignored too - some of the greatest thinking and reasoning the world has ever seen. Don't even get me started about the music. It's a disgrace. Brits don't know what a great friend we really have got in America.
I'm a voluntaryist who would gladly see even state governments go away, but Virginia's Declaration of Rights, written well before the US Constitution, explains it very well:
Section 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
It's almost funny, as someone who obviously was just brought up with this narrative to finally come to understand it - thanks for the elucidation. I honestly think that the official line from the powers-that-be over here has always been something like "Those crazy Yanks!". Over here we are thoroughly brainwashed into the idea of America as a zany but somehow flawed place. It has been surprising, over and over again, for me, to find elements of American culture displaying wisdom and understanding that is up there with any culture the old world has to offer. This approach to freedom, when looked at closely, is clearly the only mature route. And yet, like I said, in the UK people rarely, if ever, seem to say anything about it other than, as I have said, "Oh Americans and their crazy gun laws". We are like the farmyard dog that laughs at the free wolf because it has no collar and has to hunt its own food. We are kinda cute, but, ultimately, kinda domesticated. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. Depends how you feel about calling someone else "Master" I suppose. We claim to have given up on the "Divine Right of Kings" and yet there the Royal Family are and there is "Her Majesty's Government".
And people like you highlights exactly why things won't ever get better. Same mindset and same ' Americans beat the Uk' crap. It's a boring argument. All due respect of course. It will get to the point where other countries, not just the UK will stop having sympathy for a country that doesn't at least attempt to kerb these massacres.
Thank you for the due respect and I apologise if I came across as rude or ignorant. I am from the UK, never even visited the US but I have studied US culture as much as I have been able. For much of my life I assumed that things were as simple as most people in the UK seem to believe i.e. the Americans just need to sort out their 'crazy' gun laws. Time and experience have gone some way to convince me that it is not that simple. I'm going to leave it there because my wife has pointed out that it is poor taste to debate such things in the immediate aftermath of such horror, regardless of ones political views, and I think she's right. My apologies if I have offended you or anyone else on this thread. It's a bad business, I think we can agree on that at least.
Not at all. You didn’t offend me whatsoever. I appreciate the reply. Not everyone has the same idea as everyone else. Makes life more interesting. It’s defintely a bad business as you say. As your wife says, it’s in poor taste to debate such things but what are we seeing online at this exact moment... people saying the same things. And it is always after one of these atrocities. It’s just a shame that lessons are never learnt again and again. All the best!
I’ll just add.. I have spent time in the US with friends and family and never in my life have I seen guns more in real life than when I go there.
Tis the reason no one invades, even though we have made a few enemies.
In my opinion guns are one of the worst inventions of man next to nuclear bombs but you can't ban them now because they exist as a tool for protection or aggression. Sure you can you make them harder to have access to yes but in the U.S. we are protected under the 2nd Amendment the right to bear arms so it's a constitutional issue and can't be debated. The constitution rules the land of America, what needs to be done is stopping the surveillance state on innocent Americans and further stopping rouge deepstate agents who want to harm innocent Americans. And oh the enemy that same deepstate created YES ISIS which ultimately is a CIA creation through years of destabilizing the middle east. Then eventually arming them when they sent cargos of weapons to the FSA. Who is known to have Al-Nusra/Alqaeda ties in Syria. Anyway going off topic but the U.S. has a lot of problems but so does the UK with Brexit curious why u voted to remain in the European Union when its been robbing you guys blind for years? I'm not in favor of the death penalty unless it's for rape, murder or pedophiles. If we had a death penalty for severe crimes wouldn't they be more discouraged? Most people can follow the easy rules don't rape, murder or be a pedophile right? So why not? I agree with the longer sentences that would deter some crime. As for this particular situation, you can't stop armed terrorists from doing something horrific like this. There is now news $100,000 was just sent to Philipeans which is facing an ISIS takeover in parts. But ultimately I am a peaceful anarchist and believe that all forms of government are Satan.
Just a few points :) the US Constitution can be changed...that’s what the amendments are; updates from the original laws. As for the death penalty, it clearly doesn’t work. People get murdered/robbed/abused regardless. Plus it takes years and years for a sentence to get carried out. I think I’d rather see more prisons and harsher sentences. But since I live in the Uk, it’s irrelevant what I think. Have a great day anyway!
Agreed, documents can change, but the principles behind why they were written do not. Free people are armed. I am not a subject. Royalty disgusts me. The idea that some people are born to rule others is also disgusting. Double standards, special protections, and monopolies on force need to go away. Get rid of the control systems.
...people are bad, so we need a government (rulers) made up of...
Nope. No thanks!
Yes, the US Constitution can be changed, but few people understand the background behind the Second Amendment. Want to know it? Do the research. Better yet, simply read:
Section 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
That makes it pretty clear. Our government doesn't like mentioning that text however. They what people thinking 2A was about sportsmanship or hunting. LOL No, it was meant to maintain the ability to resist tyrannical forces, in or out of your nation. Militias work contrary to popular MSM belief. They are local people who care about each other, and they function as a defensive force only.
They cannot be corrupted by outside forces or rulers either.
That's simply not true. The millions of guns in America on a day to day basis usually do no one harm. Sure, they are used in suicides here more, but that's to be expected. If you want to off yourself, go right ahead too. It's your meat suit. Just don't be a coward and take out others with you.
Do you honestly think having harsher sentences for guns is really gonna stop somebody that wants to commit the crime of murder let alone mass murder. By your failed logic we should have harsher sentences than the death penalty.