Thanks for the comment, but I'm not sure you're understanding this the same way I am. I'm not even sure what kind of study you could devise to try to test your theory, so how can you say it so absolutely like that? I mean.. Just saying "We're having this conversation" is not proof. If you understand it from the viewpoint of people who believe in that theory they claim everything is a reaction of the environment, that means every single thought you ever thought you had was not your choice but a reaction from the environment.
The mathematical logic they have is pretty convincing. A lot more convincing that saying "We have free will cause we're talking right now".
I don't think you can so easily handwave away what they are saying and that's why I said it will probably never be able to be proved and remain in the world of philosophy and belief.. But.. If you think you can really prove it.. Feel free to try, you're just going to have to go a lot further than just saying "We're talking thus we have free will"
Blades of grass blow in the wind, that doesn't mean they are doing that of their own will. What if a human is just a really complex blade of grass blowing in the wind?
haha, that is why I ended my comment saying this is deep. This topic is just like politics and religion, at the end everybody hold on to their position. I am not an expert on this, but I have heard both sides of the arguments.
If everything was reaction of the environment, wouldn't we see uniformity in the people from same environments? Sure environment does have great deal of impact on how people think, that has to do with how brain function. If you ask a brain scientist "what is the purpose of thinking?". They will say it is to stop thinking. Because brain consumes a lot of energy, it tries to resolve things efficiently, and get back on autopilot whenever possible. So we are on autopilot most of the time, that means you are shaped by your environment. However, as you start questioning things, studying, and learning you start forming your own position, hence choices you make are different.
Reason I say we have free will because we are discussing this topic is because that's what humans have been doing since the beginning of time. That creates choices, we take positions, there is no universal consensus. If we didn't have free will, everything would be instinctual and uni-formal. People would behave same way just like animals do. Animals' behavior is predictable, can you say same for humans?
This topic has to do a lot with consciousness and cognitive science. There are some interesting studying on this, but most of the time they decline to answer definitively about the free will, mainly because it is controversial subject.
I have heard so called "mathematical logic" arguments. Basically they hold deterministic position. In my opinion, it fails miserably.
Anyway, once again this is deep, and at the end everybody holds on to whatever makes sense to them and goes back to autopilot :) Good talking.
Word. Thanks for the thoughtful back and forth.. I'd address a couple things real quick.
I don't see why that would be the case, reality wouldn't work in any sense if it was everything would blur together, the separation is a critical ingredient.
Really? Wow.. I get your point, but that just sounds silly.. The brain is meant to think, in my opinion.. Without it, we might as well be blades of grass. Heh.
I think you definitely could make the argument we are more complex animals and we are predictable to an extent as well. Perhaps totally by an alien or god force above us in sentience like we are above animals and plants.
Well.. To me, I liken it to that scene in the Matrix the second one with the Marvingian or whatever the name is.. He claims "Everything" is a reaction. And.. Mathematically.. I think that has some weight. I'm not sure you can 100% prove it at all, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion.. But I also don't think that means they fail miserably. They are convincing and interesting concepts to think about..Maybe everything is a reaction, BUT.. that would almost imply there was one initial action, maybe you could call that the big bang or whatever.. Yet.. I think it makes an amount of sense, if you really think about it.. Though as I said.. Not 100%, yet still compelling!