If you were an alien visiting this planet would you be able to distinguish between higher and lower intelligence animals? If so, what would the credentials entail? Will it be reproduction and maintenance of DNA? How about adaptability? Perhaps elaborate structures?
Whatever constituents one chooses, eventually the comparison would have to come down to the very physiology of a species. What makes a human, human? What makes a cat, cat? Could we possibly draw objective comparisons by creating phenomenal parallels such as to brain structure, synaptic activity of gray matter?
Humans like to take pride on themselves for being superior to other forms of life. Since we cannot understand the opinions from the opposition, let us simply assume that all other species are as justified to feel the same. There is a massive gap in communications and understanding and that should raise the first red flag when it comes to such comparisons. A cat for example would pity the human for having to build a house in order to survive. Why not just be able to sleep outside? A bear would pity us for having to create clothes. Why not grow fur? Here is another advantage they could have: They don't need to pity or compare themselves to us like we do.
In engineering and in programming one thing matters the most; efficiency. If one has to write 50 lines of code for a specific function while another fellow uses only 2 lines then the former will be inefficient and possibly laggy. In engineering, if one has to build a very complicated machine for a very simple task then it will possibly be more prone to errors and structural failure. Nature works much the same. It cares only for efficiency, not elaborate complexity. Whenever evolution falls short, it simply builds on top of what already exists. There are no do-overs. Imagine for example if you wanted to build a skyscraper but you had to use the foundations of a barn. This is pretty much what happened to our 'elaborate' and 'complicated' brains.
We like to take pride on ourselves for having such an intricate brain. The fact that we fail to understand it, makes us even more proud of it. The sour truth though is that our brain consists of the same architectural structure repeated over and over again on a very primitive foundation that all of mammals share — the reptilian cortex.
All those intestine-like folds is just a simple structural repetition for doing pretty much the same task but in different ways. It had to develop in such way because, compare to the rest of the animals, we suck at pretty much everything else. A cat will just walk and copulate with another cat. We on the other hand, create a ritual that lasts months, involving flowers, dinners, messages, phones calls and at the end the whole thing gets so complicated that we might not even accomplish the task. Your cat might indeed pity you.
Most insects communicate in mid-air over miles away. No need for cellphones. Ants are considered to be the best architects, with humans copying their structures. Moreover, they don't even have to communicate in any way to accomplish all that and yet they are extremely efficiently and organized in doing so. We constantly strive to find solutions for our lives by copying the ways of other species. No other animal even cares to do that because we are fundamentally inefficient.
Every single one of our senses is poor in comparison with most mammals. Our only weapon to defend against nature is a brain that forms complicated patterns and builds weird tools. Ever noticed how most humans cannot survive outside of what we call "civilization"? A rat, a cat or a bird in or outside our cities will learn to adopt in a gist.
Building elaborate structures such as a space station is not necessarily an intelligent thing to do. Space is pretty much an endless wasteland with not much going on anyways. Feeling the need to look up in the sky and just wonder about our place in the universe can inspire awe but also breed existential dread. In fact, historically, it overcame us in such an extent that we fought each other to death in order to decide which super deity created all these and for what reason.
When witnessing all these intricate relationships across species, one owes to be humble in order to understand what really goes behind the scenes. Humans often fail to do so because even when it comes to our own intelligence we like to compare each other based on tests.
After a century or so, we have found out that intelligence amongst humans is entirely subjective and problematic. For example, one can practice I.Q tests and raise his score. Environment plays a huge role in this. One can be smart in an office environment but rather stupid in a forest. I.Q tests are structured in a way to measure everyone based on generic constituents. I wonder though: Would it be objective to compare yourself to a leopard in regards to who can run the fastest?
source
If we cannot objectively compare ourselves to each other due to the difference in humans' environments and physiology, how could we possibly draw cross-species conclusions? Perhaps if we toned down a bit in regards to our place in the cosmos we would have come to understand that we are not all that different from each other.
Assuming a rock suddenly woke up and became conscious, it would have made the same realizations as we do. "Look at me how strong and sturdy I am", it would say. "Nothing can break me. Humans use me to hold their structures together. Animals lick me to get my essence in their bodies so they could survive. You can break me down to small pieces and I do not loose my composition. I am found everywhere. Without me, not a single planet would have existed. All these were made for me". What an arrogant piece of shit for a rock huh?
Our teleological perception about the universe jails our mind into believing that we are the most important thing that ever happened to the cosmos. We like to believe that because any other scenario makes the world way too scary. From the moment we have perceived our own demise, we felt the need to create stories that filled our existential void. In doing so, we have alienated ourselves from the rest of the world in a rather arrogant way. Most of the ills we do to each other is because we are afraid.
Our bodies consist of microbes, each deciding when we should eat, shit and reproduce. Every single thought we have is predetermined from elaborate functions that these organisms perform. Every simple infection is nothing but the battle ground of these species. Each one of us is a universe for hundreds of thousands forms of life. Much like earth, we maintain an ecosystem with things living inside and on top of us.
Earth is stranded in the middle of nowhere, looking at all the other planets. So much going on upon it, so desolate the other planets. It feels proud for being able to harbor something special as life itself. We, as humans, are not that different from this pale blue dot that is stranded in the middle of nowhere. We share similarities with all life on earth but we have to acknowledge that we are not better, or worse that the rest. Just different.
Not sure if I can agree with this since humans do have better problem solving skills than other animals. We won't see monkeys programming a blockchain. But indeed we are by far not better than other animals. Maybe we are much worse considering our ruthlessness, greed and destructive nature. We did evolve in a congnitive perspective maybe but our instincts are still the same as many thousand years ago.
Humans have more problem creating skills than animals
Ask an average voter why they vote and you will take that back...
nah, cats are assholes too. they torture their pray
Animals have souls and are very smart. They are problem solvers as experimented through various challenges to various species including insects like bees. I just posted about the Cuttlefish.
The Cuttlefish change colors like a DMT/Ayahuasca neon adventure and the texture of the skin changes to the environment of their choosing. The skin membrane is like a brain 😱. If they lay on top of a rock they literally become like the rock if they choose to 😮.
Do you know how much computing it takes to do that? 🤓
Well it is a different type of computing. Not necessarily very complex, just different from what we are used to.
In reality I don't know what complexity of it is, but I imagine that it has to be very complex to do those things.
Well again, just a different way of going about computation. Not binary and exact.
Feedback loops and simple checkpoints can control the organic and analog oscillations. Not quire the precision of a GPU but they don't need double precision floating point calculations in animals. Different paradigms.
Yes, I agree they are smart and have awareness/souls/consciousness. That's one of the main reasons why I went vegan 😊
What is the difference with plants? They live the same life like us. Even more efficient.
I agree, they do and they are.
Me too...The main reason I went vegan 100% 😁
I'm Vegan too :)
I love you guys
Im Vegan too, following allyall!
Thanks! One love 💗
I "Identify" as vegan.
Cuttlefish are amazing. Their ability to mimic other creatures is insane.
if i could RESTEEM a Comment… this would be the one !!! YARRR !!!
i think that it requires intelligence to recognize intelligence... true intelligence of current generations could be measured in how WE prepare the next coming generations capability to interact with man and nature.
i tried to explain this to another comment. the question is simple. who is smart and more efficient. the one that has the tech build in or the one trying to copy and then apply it?
To me the animal kingdom is built more for efficiency and humanity is more for pleasure of experience.
Why then most of humanity suffer and live in misery? Not much pleasure and good experience for most of us.
Because of greed and lack of love (Which encompass compassion, harmony, consideration, ect) Specifically from leaders. Humanity is imbalanced from consciousness to physically.
yeap
That's because humanity's great ability allow us the luxury of worrying about more than immediate survival needs. At least, today. We produce a surplus that sustains us, like squirrels. (Well, they don't produce it...)
The question is simple. Who is the apex predator, and who is not? How it got there is irrelevant. Whoever is on top is axiomatically superior. Whether they are superior on all measures, or only some, is irrelevant.
In that case, the fungi kingdom. They can control all animals through the brain and effect the entire body. They have the biggest network of comunication on Earth. They can wipe Humanity out.
Look up how mold effects humans.
Fungi is not eligible for apex predator status, by definition. It's not a predator.
True but neither is humanity. Human nature is not predatory. Humans are not build to be predators.
On what do you base this assertion?
Shrooms!!! 🙌 😂😂
If ants and bees decided to stop pollinating plants, humans would go extinct in a few months. If Cyanobacteria decided to stop making oxygen we would all be fucked
Yeah, its not a question of survival of the fittest its survival of the friendliest and most symbiotic, and the human species is very good at learning and changing. So we are really good at adapting to new symbiotic relationships in nature. The only reason we have became murderers of other species is because we had no other food source at certain points of history and have not returned to our original healthy relationship with the planet ecosystem.
Why is this relevant? Every creature can be killed by destroying the food chain.
we cannot kill them because we cannot disturb their food chain. they can because they control every single part of ours.
Do you mean should not? I think we're doing a pretty good job of killing off bees =/
Apex predators aren't necessarily smart enough to not bring about their own extinction (or avoid it), they're just the physical top dog. Our tech indisputably makes us that.
I think each species is smart and highly efficient in their own way. They do what they do to the best of their ability. What makes humans highly inefficient is greed. Profit over progress if you really think about it; otherwise we would be in a different reality highly evolved beyond monetary and political systems and such.
True... Also animals themselves having a soul are intelligent but all animals including humans are limited by the vehicle in possession (Body).
Example: If a dog soul were to be in human body then it would have human abilities and if a human soul is in a dog body it would be have dog abilities. The human soul in a dog body would not be able to talk because the dog body is not equipped for speech.
By the perspective of a cat, we are really inefficient. A cat grows richer fur in the winter and lighter in the summer; we have to manufacture, buy and wear clothes. A cat has sharp nails that it can choose to keep inside its palm and use only in times of need; we have to build sharp tools and carry them around. A cat can eat mice, flies, and all "dirty" animals and insects; we'd get sick and we need to prepare food in a special way to avoid it. A cat can hear better, smell better, see better in the dark. It can jump several times its height; we need lenses, mobile phones and running shoes. A cat cleans itself; we need showers with special soaps.
It's funny really if you see it from the perspective of another animal!
Cats even dominate the internet, despite not being able to use it directly. They make their owners do it on their behalf.
perfectly out @elemenya
So basically a cat, like a spoiled brat, finds everything ready at its feet, whereas humans have to actually manufacture all of their own stuff. To put a twist to something Kyriacos said in his article (“Ever noticed how most humans cannot survive outside of what we call "civilization"? A rat, a cat or a bird in or outside our cities will learn to adopt in a gist.”): “Ever noticed how a cat cannot survive outside of what we may call its 'inherited privilege'? A man can make his own clothes, his own house, his own sharp tools, his own sound-amplifying devices, night-vision goggles, vehicles, cook the disease out of foods, etc. A cat, if you cut its nails, will have to wait for them to grow back at a snail’s pace. If you shave its fur, it will have no choice but to freeze in the cold.”
Not all men can make all these. Only a few can make them while some others just use them. All cats though can hunt and survive.
If I beat the shit out of a human they would have to recover in order to make clothes.
Please keep the arguments above potato level.
The "argument" was in direct response to statements such as "Ever noticed how most humans cannot survive outside of what we call "civilization"? A rat, a cat or a bird in or outside our cities will learn to adopt in a gist." and "A cat grows richer fur in the winter and lighter in the summer; we have to manufacture, buy and wear clothes. A cat has sharp nails that it can choose to keep inside its palm and use only in times of need; we have to build sharp tools and carry them around. A cat can eat mice, flies, and all "dirty" animals and insects; we'd get sick and we need to prepare food in a special way to avoid it. A cat can hear better, smell better, see better in the dark. It can jump several times its height; we need lenses, mobile phones and running shoes. A cat cleans itself; we need showers with special soaps." And Ivanka Trump has her food served to her whereas I need to prepare all my meals myself!
I wasn't making an argument per se, I was merely reversing yours (actually mostly elemenya's) because I don't know why "civilization" has to be ranked below "inherited privilege" (as I called it) like growing fur and nails. It's not the cat doing most of the things elemenya listed, they're being done on her behalf, automatically, which is why it probably doesn't need as much consciousness as we do, it just sits back and lets nature do its work.
A cat can still live within a city and outside. A human though cannot. They need all these comforts. A cat can live outside its own yard. A human cannot.
When you and your friend are about to take an exam and you need to study, buy books, etc in order to do it while your friend instinctively is better then who is more intelligent? If you as a human has to do build all these crap around you in order to survive while a species a self-sufficient then you are less intelligent, not it.
yet again. we are different. hence why I said nobody is smarter. we are all different
Well about the 'study' example, I guess that's why we differentiate between words like 'talent' and 'intelligence'. The guy who has innate...well, talent! is just gonna fare better, just like a person might take well to learning a musical instrument, while I may need to study a lot.
In general, my personal preference would be that I would know how to do everything myself, instead of relying on nature, DNA, civilization, etc. That's how humans envisaged God in the first place: a being that is self-sufficient, knows everything, can make everything himself, etc. Being the most superior being entails being able to (consciously) do everything yourself. To even approach that, of course, we'd need substantially larger brains with much greater capacities etc. But between a cat that grows its fur unwittingly, and a person who grows fur because he made a pill that makes him hirsute, I'd say the latter is the more intelligent, because he's understood the process.
I'm aware this isn't a reply to your exact argument, I'm just expressing some thoughts that came to mind reading it.
again you are comparing human deeds with another species. what a cat might call intelligence does not relate to your own term because we both have different physiologies.
Understanding the process is irrelevant. Evolution has pushed you to understand aka develop that capacity because you were inefficient to begin with. its an extra step anyway you want to see it. the harsh truth of life is survival....not understanding, not building, not being smart . if you have to measure intelligence you have to draw your parallels from this harsh cold fact.
To make it even plainer: you stripped the human of his civilization (something like stripping an ant of its colony), and said he won't survive in let's-call-them 'cat conditions'. So what I did was strip the cat of its fur, and said it won't be able to manufacture a coat (which is very simple: kill an animal and wear its coat; even a cat should be able to do that).
The fur comes attached, much like your assumptions of consciousness and intelligence. Civilization does not come attached. in fact, if everything was to vanish tomorrow it would take centuries to reach again the current level.
wrong parallelism.
There's lots we dont understand about other animals and plants and trees. They keep it simple we make it complicated.
indeed
Interesting read , it is an opinion that is totally incorrect however. Humans are the apex animal on this planet by a substantial measure. No other animal comes close in its ability to think, reason, imagine , create and destroy.
It is a novel idea to make the assumption that any other animal approaches the intellectual capacity of a human adult . That's not to say that I do not think animals cannot be intelligent, or show affection for people or other animals. However their capacity to do so is very limited, and science has shown that even the smartest animals can only come close to approximating very young children.
Thanks again for the read keep up the good work.
the earth went through 5 mass extinctions. In regards to creation and destruction we come nowhere close to other species.
Intelligence and emotions all all rooted to the same mechanism
Are you sure that science has shown that? Read this article then
https://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news67182.html
"the earth went through 5 mass extinctions. In regards to creation and destruction we come nowhere close to other species."
Animals were not responsible for any of those events. Humanity however has proven on more than one occasion that we are perfectly capable of not only forcing a species into extinction , but also of saving another species.
" Intelligence and emotions all all rooted to the same mechanism"
You offered nothing what so ever with this retort .. Where did I say other wise. I made the assertion that other animals are not the peers of humans. An Assertion which you are refuting.
"Are you sure that science has shown that? Read this article then"
Yes its pretty conclusive that's the case. The study you point to along with others support the idea that certain animal species have the capacity limited complex thought / reason and the use of tools. However there has been no study that has advanced the idea that an animal is capable of the same level of intellect and reason that a human being can possess. Just because a chimp can use a stick to retrieve ants to eat does not mean a chimp can repair your car, or program a computer.
Nor does a gorilla learning a very limited vocabulary in sign language make a gorilla as smart as a human which has a far greater capacity to learn. The vast majority of that research has shown the more intelligent animal species have an intellectual level approximate to a small child between 3 to 6 years of age. The difference being that human child will advance and progress as it ages while the smartest animal will not .
many where. in the Triassic period the plankton of the ocean kill most species
again. false comparison. just because other animals don't need to perform our acts does mean they are stupid. also read this quote.
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
if a dolphin started comparing your ability to learn swimming in respect to them, you will be pretty stupid.
The minute you started quoting Douglass Adams you lost the plot. I am huge fan of his writing and the man had a wicked sense of humor most are simply not capable of appreciating. However you clearly are either being obtuse now or are suffering from Witzelsucht .
Please by all means read all four books of the series, "So long and thanks for all the fish" is arguably the best of the four books because it provides some closure. If you have a little time read Dirk Gently too but try to refrain from using any of its passages to support an argument.
I answered your question. You just wrote 2 paragraphs consisting of advice in order to gain intellectual leverage.
no counter argument whatsoever.
No you really did not. You quoted a sci fi author noted for bringing humor to sci fi. He was not exactly Asimov or Clarke intellectually and I've read all of his works. Try staying on topic . You can quote all types of nonsense from a fiction author but it does nothing to support your argument . Seriously do you suffer from Witzelsucht ? it would explain a lot at this point in the discussion ...
Its kind of silly to call ourselves apex this or superior that from a anthropocentric standpoint. Its like saying; I am more succesfull than you because I achieved my goals and you didn't achieve 'my' goals but your own, which are not the goals that bring the 'succes' that seems to be evident from my perspective. These are the hard questions, does our experience differ from that of anything else. Is it similar? What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to see the color red? In all honesty in no language I could explain to you what or how I experience what I experience. I can refer to it in lucid ways by generalizing endlessly until it is void of meaning. I don't see how saying that we are superior or apex predators solve these problems, it just seems to deny them essentially.
Love the discussions btw<3
awesome answer. have been trying to say this to so many people in so many different ways but it doesn't seem to fly through their head
One thing:
Judging an algorithm by length is not always a good idea. The most efficient algorithms are often fairly complicated in practice. Examples:
yeah, i seemed to have gone a little bit off there but I was hoping to get a simple message across
A naive and uneducated message would be more accurate.
This post received a 50% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @kyriacos! For more information, click here!
Humans are uniquely different than other animals. Animals are very smart indeed however I think it is a different type of smart. not certain though if they have a soul. Thanks.
how certain you are having a soul?
Exactly. We have evolved to have a more advanced brain - that's the main difference.
Not so sure about that. Effectiveness matters most, efficiency is nice to have in some cases. In fact, for evolution, "good enough" is what counts to survive, not "best equipped" or "most efficient".
I suppose one could argue that we humans run the most universal computer in our heads, not necessarily the best for all purposes, ie. the "smartest" for all applications.
This has enabled our ancestors to adapt to many environments, and adapt many environments for us. I'm not so sure if those who inherited these adaptations, I mean the majority of current humans, could do the same quickly enough when there is a major change, but that may not be an inherent problem of the human brain.
i was actually thinking which word to use since I am not an engineer but u think efficiency and effectiveness could be seen as interchangeable terms in a given domain.
I use effectiveness for "does it do what it is supposed to do" and efficiency for "how much time / how many resources does it consume for doing what it does", but there are probably other definitions, always nice to have many to chose from 8-).
BTW I edited my comment after you replied, naughty of me, but I hadn't seen your reply yet.
no problem. I see what you mean
BTW Have you in any way responded to this reply to one of your articles? If you have, I'm going to read your responses, if not, not.
yeah..give me a second. i can't keep up lately
Good read.. Upvoted, and started following you @kyriacos.
thank you @janver06
👍 Upvoted. Cool if i share this on twitter?
Everything on Steemit is publicly available, searchable, and to be shared, it is forever on the STEEM Bloockchain. Tweeting would be great for the post creator, for those who resteem it, and for those who comment....more eyeballs to view the Platform, maybe even join up....good for everyone.
of course. there is a twitter button on the bottom right of the article
Thanks for another enjoyable, yet poignant read!
glad i delivered straight to your soul.
Haha >_<
degree of smartness depends on whether a species or individual is able to place themselves in such a way that they have high probability of surviving (or in our case leading a happy life).so it is very subjective , form of thinking that was considered smart 1000 years ago may be considered foolish now . degree of smartness changes with evolution and experiences.
well put
Great post. I've often found it interesting how other animals seem to have other 'senses' that we don't have access to. Our cats and dogs clearly have a better sense of smell than we do. Dogs can 'smell' fear. Cats can sniff around and tell if another cat has been in his territory. Ants can smell other ants and the trail to determine where to go. Insects and other creatures can see a larger or different swath of the EM spectrum. If you've owned a cat, they clearly sense things we do not. They sometimes stare at blank space or walls. What do they see?
What if our senses are limited and there is more out there that we cannot comprehend outside of our senses of sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell? Our science would be quite limited in that case because humans only probe where we have thought to, based on our perhaps unique and limited senses.
Cats can see ultraviolet. :)
"Humans Are Not Smarter Than Other Forms Of Life, Just Different" so true! I hate it when people think they are superior to animals because we are supposedly more intellegent.
indeed
smart is relative isnt it. in todays world the bankers and insurance guys are the indisposable geniuses right now, but lets say an emp went off, then a good plumber , horse trainer,mechanic would be the smartest guy in the world.
bingo
So true! Although, I don't think much of bankers or insurance guys.
Humans Are Not Smarter Than Other Forms Of Life - That's just very wrong. It hugely depends on the definition of smart, but being smart is most often associated with being intelligent. Animals will never be able to be more intelligent than Humans.
The way I understood your post is that you compared the Human to Animals that all have one huge strength that we humans don't have, but then you say that we aren't allowed to compare our only strength our Brain to other Animals just because it wouldn't be fair in itself. Humans are Jack of all Trades, but Master of none that is what makes us so great. Why would we want to have fur? It's unpractical and can't be adapted. And I guess there is where your misconception lies with the Animal world. No Animals would pity us because they all would want to be like us. We are Masters in Survival, we lived so long that we saw a huge amount of species die before us, and we will continue to live. We are able to adapt to any kind of situation through our imperfection.
I think your post should be of less philosophical nature than biological nature, but even then I would find in just wrong.
This is nothing against you, I'm just stating my opinion I don't want to bash you for anything, just a friendly minnow :)
and humans will never be able to be more intelligent than animals. Dare to take some examples into play?
99.99999% of all humans use the tools some other people build. Take them out in the world and most will be dead within a week. We are no longer tool builders. we are tool users.
I appreciate the critique.
I hope that you are not serious about animals being more intelligent than humans.
So let's define Intelligence first of all. Intelligence means having or showing mental keenness. Intelligent usually implies the ability to cope with new problems and to use the power of reasoning and inference effectively.
The Thing with Animals is that they don't try to get better or make their living situation any better they are trying to survive and that's all they do. They might by definition be intelligent enough to survive, but that's it nothing more and nothing less. Their brains are only good for this and won't get them any further.
Humans have the ability to comprehend excessive data and are able to adapt to any kind of situation given enough time.
Animals might be intelligent in their own unique way, but not really in the way we define intelligence.
Come on that's just bullshit. Of course, we use tools that other's create why would we need to create the same tool if we can just buy it from someone else.
OF COURSE, THEY WILL BE DEAD... We adapted from alive in the wild to a life within city's, you can't just throw someone in the water and say go now swim. Animals that have lived in solitude or in zoo's that are set free in the wild and need to hunt for the first time will be dead within a few day's, that is nothing exclusive for human beings.
That's very poetic of you but we are still tool builders, just a different kind of tool builders. like I said we humans will adapt to any kind of situation and we live in the year 2017 we don't need to make our stone tools outside in our garden anymore, but that doesn't mean that we don't create stuff anymore. We still build machines and so one, we are just able to do it in a huge quantity so that not everyone on the earth has to do the same thing and can pursue other things in life.
yeah. google "craw brakes nut with car wheel"
false beyond imagination. see above.
this is actually true for any species. this is how evolution works.
Most people don't know how their car operates, their tv. their fridge, computer. the things that define their lives.
Very few of us do. Most of us are dependent like small children. this makes the entire species very vulnerable.
Wow so can an Animal Study math now? If they are this Intelligent as you make them out in the comments then they should very much be able to do that.
Their skill of making the world adapt to them is very basic. Most Animals will build a small shelter with some sticks or whatnot, but that's it. That's not what I call better their living situation.
Not to the same extent.
So you are telling me that every human who uses something that he doesn't understand is a liability to our whole human species? Wow, that's some pretty hard statement. Let's first get a master in engineering before we are able to fly a plane because we need to understand it to use it.
I'd say that more than enough humans know how cars, tv's or fridges operate, but it's nothing that you need to know in order to survive.
Irrelevant. Can you do math while crossing the street? no, but you can still be intelligent to do it.
You need to start investigating how ant and bee colonies work. Far more efficient than any human society.
How you think world war happen with millions of death? Also, what does that tell you about the "average human intelligence" if a handful of people know how to make the tools while the rest are just users? How are we any different than a monkey learning tricks?
interesting
Yes I can assure you that humans are not smarter than most of the other creatures I have encountered.
But you are human master V
Not exactly. We are a bit different in my galaxy. But some of our inhabitants resemble your humans. And even I were, I am far superior to any other.
fair enough.
Wow! You sure got a lot of action on this post!
Love this comment:
Same could be asked about why most people believe in their particular religion. I think you will find a great many simply follow the patterns of their elders. Totally brainwashed and pre-conditioned by their environment.
yeap
Very good read. It's a high time we humans realize this.
yeap
Nice point, good to see I'm not the only one thinking about this.
:)
Well you did stir up a hornets nest didn't you... Love the issues you're raising, and think our inability to communicate with plants, animals and quite frankly with other humans, at this point in our evolution may prevent a satisfying outcome to the discussion.
And don't forget the inability of plants and dolphins etc. to communicate with us! (Unless of course it's just unwillingness on their part.)
Ι did mention it but most people seem to be focused on the human factor.
Indeed you did, and not a lot of plants, animals or other life forms on steemit to put their views across, and I'm certainly not suggesting I'm qualified.
We all are. Just have to find our niche
I disagree. I love the article so a thumbs up for that. There's a reason why we rule this planet and it's because we're smarter. If you take 1 look at nature, you'll realise how dangerous even a red ant can be compared to us. A tiger within 2 years could take on 4-5 unarmed men in the wild.. who are fully grown. We take years to develop and can only defend ourselves with weapons which were built from our intelligence :)
what makes you think we rule this planet?
I'm sorry but, just from the Title of your post - I have to disagree, 100%. I can not ever remember an animal learning to perform brain surgery, cure somebody of cancer, give someone a heart & lung transplant, or pick up a set of tools - to manufacture another set of tools - which can build something in an automated fashion.
I can't remember the last time a donkey, horse, ox, or mule - rode on a man. There is a fundamental difference between man & animal - it is called, DOMINION.
Yes, some animals are very smart, clever, and do complex tasks & have the ability to learn. And, yes, some human beings are amazingly dim-witted. But, on the average, you don't see another species having as large of an impact on our planet as human beings. Sure, you may be a tree-hugger and say that humans are just killing the planet, so the species as a whole is just stupid. Well, if that's your opinion - please do us all a favor and leave the planet now, since you're draining the resources for the rest of us. Thanks! :D
You need to read the rest of the article. you can't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree
But, I can evaluate another persons' ability to make value judgements.
Human life is more valuable than animal life, because we are more intelligent. It's that simple.
You can muddle the issue of intelligence by changing the measuring stick - by saying that a polar bear is better than a man because it has a far superior sense of smell and could beat a man in a contest of physical strength. Thing is, a polar bear doesn't know it's better - it just knows that it is hungry, and it's going to try and eat everything that it can. It is driven by its' animal instincts and, in many cases, it is not even able to make a different choice than to follow its' natural instincts.
Humans are able, with some self-discipline, to resist instincts and to make different choices, based on weighing a vast number of possible outcomes and value-judgements. It is called CONSCIOUSNESS. Self-awareness. A human can reform the very makeup of their character, through conscious effort, thought, and behavior. A criminal can become compassionate. A dimwit can become wise. Any you, my friend, can learn.
Humans are the most adaptable species, across a wider range of environmental conditions, than any other animal. Through the development of technology, we have adapted to survive in the ocean depths, on the edge of a volcano, in the vacuum of space, at the extreme arctic poles, and in the deserts on the equator. No animal really even comes close - unless it's an unconscious spore of some kind.
It is a mistake in reasoning ability to reduce humans to the level and/or importance of animals. We are animal, but we are also much more.
Actually I'll debate you on this.. Humans are the smartest.. It's how we have been able to survive for so long... We will never be the strongest or the fastest (by natural means) but what makes us different is that we havent more brain fuctions and brain activity. Human vs a Bear way back in the day.. the BEAR IS GOING TO WIN because a human trying to rely on physical attributes is gonna lose that battle EVERY time.. now give a human some time and experience.. Human vs Bear again.. Humans developed weapons, documented past encounters with bears, learned a bears habits and movements... HUMAN WILL WIN.... No animal species can keep up with that... They rely on instinct and physical attributes only.... Humans we can make up some physical shit.. We cant naturally fly.. MAKE A PLANE.. see what I mean?
all other species do the same and some existed long before us. heck the crocodile and sharks have been here for million of years. unchanged.
so what?
i doubt this. still has nothing to do with intelligence.
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
no animals aren't doing the same thing.... Sharks are alive because of their power in the water.. take a shark out of water he cant do very much.. It depends on it's physical attributes to survive...
So what? Welp I did a typo on that one.. ehh so not sure what your "so what'ing" but that is my bad...
Human intelligence depends on LEARNING and PAST EXPERIENCE. What we have learned. It's why we are reading and typing now..... SOMEONE TAUGHT US and SOMEONE ELSE TAUGHT THEM.. They learned some how.. If a Bear attacks an animal the same way Over 100's of years.. it hasn't learned anything.. it's just pure instinct that gets it done.. .
Finally the quote, ok so that is not fact.. that isn't proof in anything because someone has said something.. It's a fact that humans have made advancements in technology, education, and travel. What are the FACTS behind that quote???
same applies to humans mate
How do you think things evolve? all species learn. just different things and in a different way.
actually animals vary their attacks based on experience. cats, wolfs, whales, lions, all do very different strategies unique to their pack.
that others don't need to. when you need to study for a test and some other student doesn't then he is the smarter, not you. if you have to make clothes and the other species just regulates temperature automatically, you are the stupid one in respect to them.
Not really.. Put a human in water.. they will learn to swim.. put a human in the dessert they can find a way to maintain life...
No animals don't change tactics.. they might change locations due to a lack of food but wolves and cats do not change TACTICS... They still hunt the same way. Name one animal that has changed Tactics... If an Eagle cant find food is it gonna stop using the air?
Your example makes no sense.. If the student already knows the answer.. Then Yes for that question he would be smarter.. But what makes a person intelligent is having the ability to find those answers... Because an animal is born with fur to keep it warm doesn't make it intelligent. (Thats like saying because a person is tall they are smarter because they can reach the top shelf.) It is a great ability for it to have but Humans are smart enough that they can create that ability... and go beyond it..
they can learn to swim but they cannot survive the sharks.
you will be surprised. even crows do. e.g based on human environments they throw nuts on the street and wait for cars to cut them open. aka changing of tactics.
you will regret have of what you wrote after watching the video
But a human in the water that didn't learn how to swim and he will drown. Put a human in a desert where he has not learned how to survive he will die. There is no human that holds the knowledge of the whole species. We evolve and adapt just like animals, we are the same only we seem to be able to put our capacities to cruel use. We create answers to complex problems that create increasingly more complex problems. Humans still die on a daily basis. All over the world people are dying because they haven't learned or predicted things that think they feel they could have. Humans commit suicide, they die in wars, through genocides, they die of hunger, through torture, because of love or hate. If you look at human behaviour on a individual level, we are utterly silly and laughably stupid, which is fine because it is fun and we like it. It doesn't make us 'smarter' than animals. We haven't learned how to overcome death in any way. Would you sacrifice anything for the survival of the species? Honestly? What would that mean for a species that calls itself human. If being smart is our purpose, but there is no meaning to it, why would we want it anyway? So if being smart is what we aim for without any purpose we are just doing things in a more complex way. Random complex activity is not the same as being smart.
Yes! finally a Douglas Adams reverence. Thanks for all the fish:)
As an alien studying humans, I can assure you that even humans are merely viewed as a form of animal, however the cockroach is the superior creature living on this mass rotating in space.
a very solid assumption
Our creator made us to be above all the other species here on this planet. Give him, and us as a species, a little credit :)
Interesting read. New follower here.
Best Regards,
@abn
amazing read and well written :)
thank you
I think this makes an interesting argument. How do you estimate the importance of humans? Probably we should estimate it with an ICO 😜
Strangely my previous article ended in exactly the same note, although it was written for a completely unrelated topic. Our existence is grossly over valued
earth ico. a scam
I don't believe we possess the intelligence to even define what intelligence is.
The human ego may tell you otherwise, but the truth is we don't know very much.
precisely
Fair point about redundancy in the brain; however that is the same for all species on earth. Quite simply if I were an alien, I would deduce that the ones using computers and machinery were the dominant species.
Seeing as I, an alien, used technology to traverse the vastness of space to get here, and had also used it to master evolution's slow grind. Then that would be my view.
As far as I can deduce, we have got to a point whereby we use technology to jump ahead of evolution. Just like you pointed out, it is inefficient; for instance, in the fact that it carries advantages from generation to generation, it also passes on defects, and propensities to disease.
Ergo, we must come to the conclusion, that through technology, anything is possible, and seeing as we are the master of said tech, then yes, we are more advanced than a cat.
Plus of course, if you ask an aborigine, in the middle of the outback, does she need a phone and a house made of concrete to survive, I'm sure she'll laugh at you. Which illustrates the wonderful adaptability of human beings, hence things like cats and dogs, tagging along for the ride :-)
Cg
why?
You could emerge out of a quantum foam and not be carbon based. Heck you might not ever needed to develop tools.
The assumption that alien intelligence would have to follow our path to be intelligent is a logical fallacy and an entirely unscientific way of thinking.
Isn't the ability of an animal to communicate through hormones a form of biotechnology. Now, who is more "intelligent". The one already equipped with it or the one trying to discover, build and integrate it in their own nature?
Nice read, thanks for sharing... if I were an alien and I could see what was going on -on this world I probably would stay away for another hundred years. I think we need more time to get our shit together.
or or...come visit this planet much like we do at the zoo.
They probably already do ;)
being "smart" is a definition as well as "intelligence"
human beings are tending always to set THEIR DEFINITION as the ONE AND ONLY VALID
Sad...
true
Interesting blend of somewhat contradicting prospectives. yet you touch of intriguing points of interest in the debate of what it is to in deed be intelligent. Intelligent vs conscious. an alien visitor might actual choose white mice that are conducting a great experiment here.
the aliens might be the white mice
asking the ultimate question.
Congratulations @kyriacos!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following category:
oh nice one. hit no.1
@kyriacos
I can read this piece over & over with more interest. Although ur surmice that we are same is true but I beg to disagree in a little way from the point of view of the author of the popular Animal farm...all animals are equial but some are more equal than the others. Man has advanced in science and tech and making their environment work for them, their unquenchable quest for more knowledge and understanding a different specie that places man at a far better advantage over other species on planet earth only. However, for adaptation, we r far lesser than other species maybe bcos of our near perfect conditions that makes the natural environment work against us. Nice read and upvoted as always. Keep it steeming hot as usual
99% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. All the species that remain are equally successful in their own way.
animals has different purpose than human. animals specially cats are great on self gratification thus, his cup is always filled up and ready to extend this to other .
what's the purpose of human?
purpose of life is to follow your feelings of passion and joy and to become enlighten we must be willing to take a risk on changes. btw i believed in reincarnation. thats is just my take on purpose of life. exerting effort to your passion may consume your energy but the feeling in return is joy.
i want to be an amoeba in my next life
lol, if that's what you want.
But but but...Humans are smarter than other forms of life.(on Earth)
The reason we do not have gill's is because we walked on land, tails because we don't hang of branches. We are the most advanced species on the planet and we keep advancing. Our average lifespan is increasing generation on generation.
Our chances of long term survival far outweigh that of any other species. Our ability to travel into space and possibly create colony's is not something another species can hope to achieve. This planet at some point will become inhospitable and humans are the only species with a real chance of survival.
We're here because an ancestor species crawled out onto land, not because humans did. We do have tails - vestigial tails, because at one time our distant ancestors did hang from branches. Our brain volume has been decreasing for several tens of thousands of years, allegedly because our brains are rewiring themselves more efficiently, in a smaller space. People today are no more intelligent than people of the middle ages, Roman times or earlier. We have technology now that might give the illusion we're smarter than we were. Dissemination of knowledge and the retention of it over long periods of time is down to the invention of the printing press. We are the most technologically advanced species on the planet, but that's only one facet of a species. Maybe the whales and dolphins are more advanced than we are in other respects.
Human lifespan has been extended somewhat by medical technology, especially where disease would otherwise kill people. Lifespan has been extended more by better nutrition, better availability of food and better living conditions.
Actually, our chances of long term survival are much lower than other species. We have the capability of wiping ourselves out in numerous ways that no other species has. We also have the capability of wiping out many other species too. We're actually in the middle of an Extinction event right now, driven by human activity and its effect on the environment. The average lifespan of a species is 100,000 years. We used to think modern humans moved out of Africa 100,000-200,00 years ago but recent discoveries have pushed the age of our race back to 300,000 years. That we haven't gone extinct yet is counter to natural law. Intelligence is a trait whose value as a survival mechanism is still being tested. It does seem to be a good survival trait but it has a collateral cost on the rest of nature. If we wipe out the planet, then intelligence will have been the worst survival trait that ever evolved.
We dropped the ball on space travel back in the 1970s when human spaceflight was relegated to driving a faulty truck into space (the Space Shuttle). No human has been beyond low-Earth orbit in 45 years. China has the best chance of putting a man on the Moon and on Mars in the next couple of decades. Human colonization is decades away unless some radical choices are made. And the effects of climate change or a limited nuclear war may be felt before any colonization efforts see fruition.
We're in agreement that this planet will become inhospitable at some point. However, that point is sometime in the next 30-80 years. Near enough that many alive today will be around to see it (if not for long!)
That ability to wipe out the human race also has the nasty side effect of wiping out 99.99% of other life on the planet. If that is what happens then so be it. shit happens! But that still put's humans in the top 0.01%. It is also extremely unlikely that we will create a Mass extinction, a nuke or two sure! Worst case we nuke us all to fuck and humans will probably still survive in bunkers etc for a 1000 years. That is survivability!
I agree is yet to be seen on the grand scale if our intelligence is truly detrimental to our environment. This is most likely the reason we have emotion coupled with logic.
I do find it hard to believe that humans are no more intelligent now than in the 16th century though. The more information that is freely available in our society brings up the mean intelligence of the species as a whole. We are in the information age and I have a feeling more and more prodigies will be born on a daily basis.
Also I was only pointing out the title is incorrect. Humans are very intelligent and its ridiculous to speculate otherwise.
You're confusing the acquisition of knowledge and the application of that knowledge with human intelligence. Had the Romans had our knowledge and tech, they'd have been able to use it equally well. However, it's likely they would have discovered things we've missed, and vice versa.
I do not see how?
The title implies human are <= other lifeforms on the planet.
Unless you are talking about my disbelief about human intelligence and progression(We are no more intelligent than 16th century).
Then your just wrong. Our mean intelligence is far greater than 400 years ago. As a species, not just socially!
It is clear that a primates brain size is predetermined by the size of the group. My theory is that this effect has 10x since the invention of the internet and social media. Freely available information is creating the foundation for new neural pathways which will be clear to see in future generations.
advancing towards what? increasing lifespan for what reason? other species can live 4 years and replicate 10 times as much. why is lifespan more important than numbers?
You need to ask cockroaches, mice and really 99% of all species on earth. They will be here and we will be long gone.
and we do? we make the movies sure..but space colonies? that's a meme.
this planet went through 5 mass extinctions and yet life emerged once again
Ok i am new to this..so I cant reply and tag text fancy..will learn how in a minute. So please bear with me.
Increasing your lifespan and trying to survive is the base function of all life. Living organism's replicate.
I never said humans were the best at it. I only pointed out in the long term we have the greatest chance of survival. Due to our intelligence. Spaces colonies etc are merely 100's of years away. Much sooner than any perceived 6th Mass Extinction.
You ask people to take a grand scale of the universe and life in itself. Great idea. But to deny the clear fact we are the species with the most potential is failing to care about your own kind. We are worth much more than that!
if an asteroid falls the species that can block radiation and live underground will survive. it happened before actually. this is how WE came to be after the dinosaurs went extinct.
so, since we have not space ships yet, we are pretty much far behind in this respect.
Come on now... Do you really wan't to go the world is gonna end soon route?
We are talking about probability here. Please take timescale of previous mass extinctions into consideration. Your not trying to sell newspapers! Sensationalism never leads anywhere good.
Lets just agree humans are the most intelligent creatures on the planet and you made a boo boo :)
nop. you brought it up and I brought up the scenario. follow up man.
yes. we are more likely to get fucked than cockroaches and mice. space colonies are nowhere near other than Hollywood.
I said 100's of years.. you clearly have no interest in an intelligent conversation so i will bid you adue
Donald Trump and trump supporters....does that sound intelligent to you??
We should stop treating animals like objects and respect there right to live on this planet as much as we respect each other.
If you ever put a cat in my face again I'll block u
priniaou
I guess it's how life works.
You may have 1 problem, but there are many different ways to approaching it and humans have their own way of approaching life.
really nice thought! i will follow you for sure and i want you to delvier more of those topics ;)
I agree 100%. I wish other people would see animals that way. We are no better no worse. We are just who we all are! :)
yeap
resteemed it too :)
thank you :)
I always suspected my cat was way smarter than me 🤔😂
Nice reading!
they are! :)
I knew it! :)
It isn't.
Cg
Not a cat fan? 😄