post "What made America great?".An open response to @jeffreyahann 's
Note: I'm wearing a flame retardant suit right now. Any comments that get personal will be ignored. Please stay objective and impersonal if you want to respond.
The basis of this argument centers around one fact: ideas have a way of going viral and no matter how many times tyrants try to kill them off, they keeps coming back and often stronger.
A number of these viral ideas can be traced directly to the violent birth of the United States. I argue that these ideas helped move humanity CLOSER towards actual freedom from tyranny. Even if you disagree about the results of the United States in present and recent history, you should be able to at least acknowledge that placing these IDEAS OF FREEDOM on the global stage was a NET POSITIVE for humanity.
The Declaration of Independence was a game changer that set the stage for future revolutions and the degradation of the greatest empire of the time, Britain. It showed that defiance of superpowers can be done if the cards are played right. Independence remains an idea that went viral to this day.
The Constitution, while obviously flawed since it was created by man and man can't read the future, was as revolutionary as the Magna Carta, particularly because it actually worked and a nation was borne from it.
Also, "allowing slavery" was part of the three/fifths compromise. The slave owning southern states wanted to count their slaves for the census to determine amount of representatives. The anti-slavery northern states obviously didn't want that because it would further solidify the slavery position (similar to more entitlement programs create more voters now).
The three-fifths compromise was to prevent the entire union from dissolving in the negotiations, while still making a fight down the road possible... which became a major catalyst behind the Civil War. At this point in human history, slavery was as common as owning farm animals. This is no longer the case and it would be rather duplicitous to try and argue that the United States had nothing to do with ending open slavery.
On one hand, you're identifying every flaw that America has, but ignoring the obvious fact that no nation grew as prosperous as quickly as the United States, due in part to the very defiance that you mention. The seeds of that defiance are sewn into the very fabric of the Bill of Rights (another revolutionary document).
Artifacts and ideas sprung from the birth of the United States that strive towards MORE liberty:
- Declaration of Independence
- Bill of Rights
- 2nd Amendment (as a concept of self-preservation and the protection of the rest of the Bill of Rights)
- Establishment of Natural Law and Inalienable Rights as a concept
- Separation of Church and State, as a governmental concept with the Establishment Clause
Now, I wrote this as I was putting on my flame retardant jump suit. Saying anything positive about the United States, regardless of caveats or acknowledgement of problems, is often met by mockery and scorn on Steemit. But I'm still willing to have an objective discussion, provided it doesn't get personal (though that seems to happen every time).
Haha, got your flameproof suit on, eh?
Good thoughts. I think most will agree that the US pulled off what really hadn't been done on a wide scale ever. It was certainly a grand and successful experiment in freedom. Of course, it wasn't all roses and there has been plenty of despotism in the years since the Revolutionary War, but it's been a pretty bright spot on the planet in a lot of ways.
I'll go on record stating that I'm mostly proud of what the US accomplished. I'm glad I was born here.
Having said that, I wish i had left here years ago, and avoided the nonsense, distraction and coercion that exists today. It has become a prison/police state that claims ownership of everyone born here, as well as those born of anyone who's a citizen. And they'll track you down across the globe to assert that ownership, if it suits them (the state, US Inc).
Not really. By the time the declaration of independence was signed, the US was really the last bastion of slavery in the civilized world.
IMO, the argument for the 3/5 compromise was actually much simpler than that. It was simply necessary. It was the only way to unite the colonies as a single country. The mere fact that the constitution could not eradicate all evil and injustice that existed at the time isnt an argument against its validity or desirability.
What most people don't realize about the revolutionary war is that it was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a decisive victory over England. In fact, had Cornwallis received the support that he was promised by england, and/or if the US had not had the french on our side, it is very unlikely that we would have prevailed. England left because they decided it simply wasn't worth the cost (which itself was not very signifiant to them as a financial and military superpower). Had there been the perception of weakness or uncertainty (such as the founding of two different nations) england would have been back on american shores fairly quickly.
All that said, though the civil war did end the injustice of slavery, it was not about slavery. It was about secession and in many ways it was a repudiation of the core principles of the declaration of independence.
This is the very beginning of a document that at its very core was intended as an apologia for the right to secede.
FTR, the second amendment does not deserve its own bullet point. As it was written and intended, the US as a country has long since abandoned the principle behind the second amendment (which is the establishment of state level and local level militias with the aim of acting as a check against federal military power).
Great comment.
Only : "The three-fifths compromise was to prevent the entire union from dissolving in the negotiations, while still making a fight down the road possible... which became a major catalyst behind the Civil War."
It basically did cause the dissolving of the union, at least from the start to the end of the civil war ^_^
Why does Gerrymandering come to mind? (another way to game the system)
Hah. Touche :)
I still agree though freedom & liberty are what make (or made) this country great. We need to move back toward more liberty rather than away from it (which is what we are doing with Hillary or Trump imo)
Libertarian Gary Johnson for prez! :P (he wont win so w/e ha)
Also, the United States was about 30+ years late to abolishing slavery, if you want to find the source of the abolitionist movement, it was not America. UK, and most of Europe had outlawed it MANY years before we did, well before we brought it to the courts.
UK abolished slavery in 1833 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833 US abolished slavery in 1865 http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/slavery-abolished-in-america
England as a country effecitvely outlawed slavery in 1772 with somerset vs. stewart.
the UK abolition act was merely a formalization of policy set many years earlier in the somerset ruling (1772) and the slave trade act (1808).
A strange greatness... http://www.frot.co.nz/design/funny/america/
Because if you will start to scream USA! USA! inside bar or office, everybody will start to scream it too.
All the ideas you mentioned have their roots in Europe. Look at buildings in Washington and anywhere resembling the monumentalism of Classical Greece and Rome. Could you define what is American culture? How could you define, culturally, who is american?
You're surprised by this? Americans primarily came from Europe.
Culturally, Americans can be defined by the Constitution, the 'inalienable rights' as defined in the Constitution, and the fruits of that (relative) freedom. I would define an American anyone who is a citizen (as legally defined within the Constitution).
I suppose I don't really know what you're asking?
Ok, thank you for response. A few remarks. You say that "Americans primarily came from Europe" but there were no americans at that time. They were Irish, English, Jewish people etc. Culturally they remained who they were before. They only changed their place of residence.
More complicated question is how can you define American culture? Constitution is not enough in my opinion. My point of view is that America is "nation of nations" and there is no American culture at all.