It is sad that people have to suffer, @krnel
While the state of Israel is not a paragon of virtue, which country has not self-declared as a nation?
Israel didn't exist until 1948, while Palestine did. Then Israel was created all of a sudden in 1948.
Kindly consider kingdom that existed in the 10th century BCE.
Yeah, what's the difference between 0 and 3000 years? :)
The difference, @krnel is:
3,000 years: from kingdom to state
Israel has survived.
Judah, Judea, Jew.
United Kingdom of Israel to the State of Israel
Well you are right, every country has self declared itself as a nation, but a map of who occupied this land 3000 years ago is no proof of ownership, what about the people who were there 3001 years ago, if I'm not mistaken they were the Canaanites, what if their descendants (I guess there are people who can claim they descend from them) placed an older claim on the land? And even on this map, you can see Israel is much larger than it was then, so based on what right have they expanded? I am all for the rights of Israel to exist as a nation, but countries have borders which they have to stick to, as has so often been pointed out by Mr Trump, or does this only apply to first world countries?
Thank you for your comments, @gduran
Whether there are descendants of Canaanities or not, is a red herring.
Modern Israel's borders are the result of the United Nations & territory which Israel won in 1967 & 1973. While Trump is enforces his border, does it preclude any other country like india & Israel enforcing theirs?
Trump is increasing being proven correct about yellow journalism & fake news. More insidious is fake history & alt-history, @gduran
The United Kingdom
Two kingdoms, @gduran: Israel & Judah.
Jewish people are called Jews, from Judea, the kingdom of Judah
The country is Israel. Here's what the united Kingdom under David & Solomon looked like:
The Bible is replete with documentation about the land, even specific parts of the land belonging to whom. Jewish record-keeping was so meticulous that the geneaology of Jesus could be traced. There is extensive literature on this topic, including non-bibical sources like Josephus.
Unlike modern Israel which is self-declared, the rest of the Middle East has been manufactured primarily through Sykes-Picot.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with your arguments, now before anything I'll let you know my grandfather was a Jew so I actually look at Israel with a favorable view, but that doesn't mean I agree with all of Israel's policies, taking land that is not theirs is one of them.
I am surprised that you agree that taking land by force is ok, so I will ask you, what do you think of Russia's take over of Crimea?
"Unlike modern Israel which is self-declared, the rest of the Middle East has been manufactured primarily through Sykes-Picot."
That is wrong Israel was created by Britain and a few other countries who believed Jews should have their own country, Israel didn't just self-declare as you say.
My apologies, @gduran for the tardy response. There was a lot going on with one of my recent posts.
Before I post a structured response, may I request your input on:
No I am not Jewish, I think this makes the second question irrelevant.
On Russia, Ukraine & Crimea, @gduran
Russia, Ukraine & Crimea
Crimea
Through the 15th to 18th, the Crimean Khanate included Crimea & its territories.
In 1783, the Russian Empire annexed Crimea. After 1917, because of the Russian Revolution, Crimea was an autonomous republic within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic of the USSR, though downgraded to the Crimean Oblast in WW2.
In 1954, Krushchev transferred this Crimean Oblast to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by Nikita Khrushchev for the "unity of Russians and Ukrainians...great and indissoluble friendship" between the two peoples.
Ukraine
In independent Ukraine in 1991, it morphed into the Autonomous Republic of Crimea .
Sevastopol has its own administration, within Ukraine outside of the Autonomous Republic.
Russia
As per the 1997 Russia-Ukraine Peace and Friendship Treaty signed by Crimea HQs the Russian Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol., the Soviet Black Sea Fleet assets divided between Russia's Black Sea Fleet and Ukraine's Navy. Sevastopol is the HQ of both Russia's Black Sea Fleet & the Ukranian navy.
The 2010 Russian Ukrainian Naval Base for Gas treaty, extends the Russia's lease of the Crimean facilities through 2042 with an option to renew lease every 5-years.
Does Russia have a claim on the Crimea? Yes
Does it justify its takeover of Crimea in the manner it is doing? No
Yes, Israel was carved out of the British UN mandate. Self-declaration or creation is a matter of semantics.
Ben-Gurion did not wait for final British withdrawal.
See, Sykes, Picot & remodelling the Middle East.
