RE: Psychology Addict # 26 | Depression – Where to Draw the Line?

[klevn]

there is a reason for the overall depression... it is the slavery we are all under.

it is a prison without walls, but monetary barriers. it is a prison for your mind, and all the censorship you see happening is an attempt to keep that door closed.

but the door is opening, and spiritual realization is dawning.

psychology has one major flaw, it is good at identifying problems, but is weak on solutions.

that is how i found NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) .. Richard Bandler had a concept that I found very true. humans do not learn slowly, we learn fast. you touch the stove once, you burn your hand, you'll remember it. people are often call such learning tramatization as they now apply what they have 'learned' to everything in their life. but what they think they learned was wrong. they got a wrong impression.

so the idea Richard proposed was that changing people wasn't a slow process, but required a sharp blow to make a change. if you bend sheet metal it will just spring back, but take that same piece and slam it into a corner and it is changed forever.

NLP dives into the nuts and bolts of how our minds works, and from what I could see, worked. I use much of what I learned in real life. but my favorite part of Richard's work was that he never took a client that he couldn't give a end-time for their procedure.

anyway, thanks for the write up, it seems very informed from a scientific community. but to me lacks spiritual understanding that would make the process much more smoothly.

Comments

[abigail-dantes]

Hello @klevn

Your view on depression reminds very much much of the outlook psychoanalysts have on mental ill-health in general. They explain, for example, that anxiety and sadness are a product of the civilized, rule-bound world we live in.How can one disagree with that (at least in part)? :D

Thank you for adding your knowledge of NLP to this discussion. I appreciate it.

Although, I am truly saddened by your statement :

psychology has one major flaw, it is good at identifying problems, but is weak on solutions.

I see psychology as an incredible, invaluable means trough which solutions can be achieved not only in clinical settings, but also in experimental ones. For example, there is evidence that the efficacy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy surpasses that of anti-depression medication. There are beautiful experimental studies out there comparing treatment with CT and ADMs - by DeRubeis et al - corroborating this notion.

In my humble opinion I think CT/CBT is anything but a weak solution for people afflicted by OCD, panic disorders, MD and so forth; also, this is only one out of the many means psychology delivers to alleviate suffering. Others are psychotherapy, humanistic approaches and existential psychotherapy. All models that you may find more in line with the spiritual understanding you point out.

As you might have noticed this post has a focus on the biology of mental illness as it has been written from a biomedical perspective, this is a reductionist view that bothers many in the field as well. Believe me! :)

All the best to you always :)

[klevn]

thank you for the response. glad I could add the conversation, hopeful you don't mind a bit more...

a problem with psychology is it spends all its time studying people that are messed up.

NLP studied successful people that where messed up but overcame it.. they then modelled the behaviour and teach it to others.

psychology operates under the principle that you are broken, spirituality operates under the principle that you created a problem on top of perfection. so be still, be silent, and reconnect with the divine, problem solved.

OCD, panic disorders

OCD is ego manifested so much control over an individual they feel compelled to do things. meditate, break the ego's hold, problem solved. yes I realize it isn't that simple, but if the one thing they have trouble doing is sitting still... then they need to work on that. if they can't ignore their mind... that is the problem... more drugs or methods will not take the place of doing the work of learning to be quiet inside, learning to you can ignore the mind, learning you are more than your mind.

same for panic disorders.

means psychology delivers to alleviate suffering

if all we do is 'ease the suffering' we haven't addressed the root issue. that is my problem with psychology.. it is just like medical science..

“Is psychology more practical than spirituality? Nothing is more practical than spirituality. What can the poor psychologist do? He can only relieve the pressure. I’m a psychologist myself, and I practice psychotherapy, and I have this great conflict within me when I have to choose sometimes between psychology and spirituality. I wonder if that makes sense to anybody here. It didn’t make sense to me for many years.
“I’ll explain. It didn’t make sense to me for many years until I suddenly discovered that people have to suffer enough in a relationship so that they get disillusioned with all relationships. Isn’t that a terrible thing to think? They’ve got to suffer enough in a relationship before they wake up and say, ‘I’m sick of it! There must be a better way of living than depending on another human being.’ And what was I doing as a psychotherapist? People were coming to me with their relationship problems, with their communication problems, etc., and sometimes what I did was a help. But sometimes, I’m sorry to say, it wasn’t, because it kept people asleep. Maybe they should have suffered a little more. Maybe they ought to touch rock bottom and say, ‘I’m sick of it all.’ It’s only when you’re sick of your sickness that you’ll get out of it. Most people go to a psychiatrist or a psychologist to get relief. I repeat: to get relief. Not to get out of it." - Anthony de Mello

biomedical perspective, this is a reductionist view

ah, the heart of all the problems, the splitting of fields so much they don't know each other and bringing them together we find all sorts of conflicts, which in a single entity wouldn't exist, but in separation thrives.

that is why I mentioned you did a great job from a medical perspective ; )